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Harmala alkaloids and opiate withdrawal

or i guess better to say "harmala" than rima as hammilton has informed me that other rima drugs don't share this same effect. So, today I ate 1.5ml of the juice, it's been amazing, centering, but i feel full of awareness. I really, really like caapi. This morning still crashing off the incredibly short taper, I took 4g krat in the morning, it;s 10pm and I think i'm going to take 3 - 4 more, not because i need to, because my rat got diagnosed with cancer, my girlfriend is leaving me, and NOT even because of that - but because i have to finish getting a web page up, tonight. I'm gonna go off the caapi and do a day of phenibut with maybe 1 4g dose of kratom, as a lady I like is visiting tommorow and i just got dumped, the next day i'm going to continue my rima dosing starting w/4 grams a day of kratom, ill bet by the second i don't need it at all, i'll probably continue taking the caapi for 3 - 5 days just to make damn well and sure I'm out of the withdrawal window. Swear to god this stuff makes me feel VERY reasonable - rooted (Da dum ching) - i can't explain it. Something tells me after the kratom i may be eating a LOT of this. I completely see why south american shamans are like "fuck that dmt grass, this VINE is the TRUE HEALER, that other shit is just for flashy lights" I feel like it's helping other things too - kindof similair to iboga but more like an outpatient surgery than triage, if anyone understands that :)))
 
I received a nice quantity of syrian rue seeds, when withdrawal hits likely later tonight, I will give it a try and report back.

I wonder at the difference between caapi and harmala? I may actually have some caapi vine in my closet too, I got some many years ago, probably 7 years ago. How stable are harmala alkaloids? Do you suppose a raw section of vine (not pulverized) would still be active by now? Or would it be significantly degraded?
 
How did the trial go? How much did you end up taking?

I'd think the caapi is still good, especially since it's whole vine sections. If memory serves correctly, caapi vine naturally varies quite widely in potency, more so than syrian rue seeds. I don't know what doses I successfully used on kratom withdrawal several years ago, but it wasn't megadoses though. For the seeds I have I usually took about 1.5-2 grams first dose in the morning, then used 0.5 gram, sometimes 1 gram, doses a few times a day. I never waited for withdrawal symptoms to appear, I used it more as a preventative.
 
yep

I also recommend using it before the withdrawal hits, also taking enough to make sure it works. If you use it and let it trail off four hours, i've at least personally never hit close to full MAO inhibition, and eaten normal food with no nausea or headache. Even taken kratom, so i know it CANT be that much. I'm using a caapi extract, and i started at .25, but found .4ml to be most effective = to about 6g caapi(it's 15g per ml), i take that first thing then maybe one or two more, so 12 - 20g caapi over the course of the day. I had a hot girl come hang out with me for two days, did a LOT (5g a day) phenibut, 15g of krat a day, had crazy sex and it was TOTALLY worth it, but i wonder how i'll feel tommorow, and i wonder how effective caapi will be with combo pheni rebound and krat withdrawal. We'll see, i'm thinkin a hit of the spirit mol on top of the 20g caapi might be REAL relieving, I'll report back on that too. I'm gonna try to clean out entirely cept for caapi thru bike day. I'll let you know how it is, let's figure this one out guys, it's important and i really feel is gonna help some people with krat/opiate problems, possibly others.
 
I took a bit over 4 grams of ground syrian rue seeds when I started feeling restless. I feel like it got slightly better, my nose also stopped running though I still felt a little shaky. I didn't notice a huge difference but I was able to sleep perfectly fine with no restlessness so that says something. I felt crappy in the morning but that was certainly expected anyway. Next time I will try taking more and seeing if it makes a difference. I will also try taking it before I actually feel the beginnings of withdrawal and see if it stops it from starting.

Also, after Saturday I will be switching to kratom for a week until the following Saturday when I have my ibogaine session scheduled. Certainly during that week I will experience a lot of withdrawal-related shittiness since I am on poppy tea and kratom will not fully relieve me. So there will be a lot of opportunity to experiment. Though in the days right before I will refrain from any MAOIs since I certainly would not want any amount of inhibition for ibogaine.
 
Yeah, shakiness and the shits are the two physical symptoms that are the least relieved by harmalas. I would personally also reccommend dosing more often instead of dosing higher, just to avoid dizziness and other side effects. But experimenting is good, and I'm certainly interested in hearing your results either way . :)
 
If I didn't take MAOIs for 2 full days before I dose ibogaine, would I for sure no longer have any MAO inhibition? I want to be absolutely certain of that!
 
Depending on which MAOI you were taking, and how regularly, you need to wait around 2 weeks to a few months to let your MAO enzymes regenerate. 2 days is not enough unless you have been using single, isolated doses of some reversible MAOI. If you've been taking them daily for any length of time, then it's a firm "no".
 
Syrian rue, I have only used it once so far (2 nights ago), and I won't again if it would be risky. I was going to attempt to use them to deal with withdrawals as I attempt to not use poppy tea for the next week. Ibogaine is on next Saturday.
 
You should be fine if it's one isolated use of rue.
 
Harmalas are reversible mao inhibitors though, so there's no need for the enzymes to regenerate. I don't know the specifics for harmalas, but with the much comparable reversible mao inhibitor moclobemide, full mao enzym function is restored within 24 hours, even after prolonged use.
 
Just to be safe I will not use it anymore. I've got kratom, a few 8mg suboxones, and phenibut. It's a little late for me to order baclofen and/or gabapentin, which is what I wish I had done, to use those short-term for the next week to mask withdrawal. I will probably use 2-3mg of suboxone a couple of times, stopping with 3 or 4 days of ibogaine so there isn't any in my system as I've heard they don't play well together compared to opiates and kratom. Then hopefully my tolerance will be reduced enough that kratom will offer some help, and I'll just deal with feeling crappy for a few days until ibogaine happens. I was just nervous about being all the way into poppy tea dependence because the withdrawal lasts 2 weeks or so, I wanted to make sure the ibogaine and noribogaine wouldn't wear off with still a week of withdrawal to go.

I'm probably overthinking this but I'm pretty nervous about doing ibogaine.
 
good luck with the ibo! Yeah, there's some residual nervousness and whatnot with the harmalas, but it's to be expected, honestly the overall improvement in my experience is so vast that it makes the few remaining symtoms REALLY easy to manage. Had a girl over and did phenibut/LOTS of krat for like four days, today im on caapi/4g krat(down from like 14) and feel a little run down - but that's to be expected as well. Can't believe how well i feel. I'm not experienced with rue, either, but from what I understand it has a lot more side effects than the caapi, but that's just from reading on forums.
 
Thanks. :) Yeah, I'd like to experience the caapi vine sometime anyway, just because it's the traditional MAOI for ayahuasca, and the shamans consider it to be the real power, from what I've read.
 
from my experience, they are absolutely correct. I've done deems loads of times but never as aya, i want to now, but i'm exceedingly glad i got acquainted with the vine before vine and dm.
 
Definitely do not mix ibogaine with a MAOI. Ibogaine causes a very large, sustained adrenergic push. Its well known to be physically rough on the body. Adding a MAOI is begging for a potentially fatal hypertensive crisis.
 
^ a given! And as noribogaine is also a potent SRI, t'would be asking for danger!

Xork, a good deal of ibogaines action is due to it's kappa agonism.....buprenorhine is a mighty potent kappa antagonist. Given the 37.5 mean half life of buprenorhine, and say, 5 half lives to be rendered moot, I'd suggest staying away from the buprenorphine entirely at this point given your timeline if you want the whole spectrum of ibogaines effects...
 
Okay. I did take it once 2 days ago, hopefully that's not going to mess with me...

Anyone know if there is any reason why it would be bad for me to take loperamide to help with withdrawals leading up to ibogaine on Saturday? I would maybe take it up until the morning of the day before, if there was no reason to not do it.
 
The less opiates you take(even loperamide) leading up to your ibogaine dose, the more likely it is to be successful. Up to you to decide whether that reason is good enough for you.
 
Difficulty avoiding taking opiates the reason I'm doing it... I'll do my best.
 
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