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Misc Growing Ephedra / Khat plants

I don't want to step on any toes here. I don't think we're looking at a DEA bust over discussing Khat plants, but I'll put it out there that this could be construed pretty easily as either drug-seeking or otherwise "drug production".

I think like a lot of similar projects like "can I grow poppies to supply myself with Morphine?". It's often tossed back and forth for a few days before all parties agree that the knowledge and work that would go into basically becoming a successful farmer overnight is not realistic. They ultimately agree that it is easier to obtain their drugs through established channels. I still love the idea though I've thought about it myself, but I've never actually owned land, so this was never more than a pipe dream.

It's just not really sensible.
 
I have transcribed the 'Khat' section (page 19) from "Growing Hallucinogens - Hudson Grubber (1973)". I hope it is of some use:


"Khat - Catha edulis ; Burning Bush family (Celastraceae)

An evergreen shrub or tree to 10 feet tall with oval 4 inch long leaves.
The flowers are small, white and 5 petaled. The fruit is an oblong 3 angled
capsule containing 1 to 3 seeds. Native from Abyssinia to South Africa.

Cultivation and propagation: Khat my be grown outdoors in Florida and
California and as a greenhouse plant in the North. It needs fast drainage
and does poorly in a rich moist soil. Does best in hot areas in poor dry
soil. Propagated by cuttings taken in spring or, more effectively, by layering.
Khat rarely sets seed in this country. It should be pinched or pruned
to keep it compact, and to produce more buds.

Harvesting: The buds, branch tips and young leaves from pruning may be
used fresh or dried. Do not harvest too often or cut the branch tips too
far back, as this may destroy active buds and destroy new growth."



I also have transcribed the Khat section from Dale Pendell's - Pharmako dynamis (2009). It has some good general information on Khat use and origin, ways it is used and tips on how to grow it. If there's any interest I can post some of that chapter too.
 
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I have transcribed the 'Khat' section (page 19) from "Growing Hallucinogens - Hudson Grubber (1973)". I hope it is of some use:


"Khat - Catha edulis ; Burning Bush family (Celastraceae)

An evergreen shrub or tree to 10 feet tall with oval 4 inch long leaves.
The flowers are small, white and 5 petaled. The fruit is an oblong 3 angled
capsule containing 1 to 3 seeds. Native from Abyssinia to South Africa.

Cultivation and propagation: Khat my be grown outdoors in Florida and
California and as a greenhouse plant in the North. It needs fast drainage
and does poorly in a rich moist soil. Does best in hot areas in poor dry
soil. Propagated by cuttings taken in spring or, more effectively, by layering.
Khat rarely sets seed in this country. It should be pinched or pruned
to keep it compact, and to produce more buds.

Harvesting: The buds, branch tips and young leaves from pruning may be
used fresh or dried. Do not harvest too often or cut the branch tips too
far back, as this may destroy active buds and destroy new growth."



I also have transcribed the Khat section from Dale Pendell's - Pharmako dynamis (2009). It has some good general information on Khat use and origin, ways it is used and tips on how to grow it. If there's any interest I can post some of that chapter too.

Please do! :)

-GC
 
Good thread.

Hmm, so the young Ephedra seemed to have Ephedrine as well as the s-Cathinone?

***************************

As I said above, I didn't have any luck with layering or taking cuttings from my Khat plant. It's long since gone. The Cathinones weren't illegal at the time, actually

**************************

I have Growing The Hallucinogens if anyone wants anything else from it.

 
Khat from Pharmako dynamis

Is there a way to upload files here? I'll upload the whole thing and I would also like to upload "Tasting Whiskey" which was harder to find and a great read.

*********************************************************************************************************************************************************

Common Names Khat, chat, qat.The Flower of Paradise.

Related Plants Ephedra spp., amphetamine.
and Substances

VLowTaken The fresh leaves and twigs are chewed. In Yemen, and Somalia, up to a pound of
the fresh leaves and twigs is wrapped in banana leaves into a bundle called a mar-
duuf, which keeps them fresh. The marduuj itself may be composed of a number
of smaller bundles, each weighing about 50 grams. As the leaves and twigs are
chewed, the residue is collected in the cheek where it is kept for ten or twenty
minutes, until the juices are fully extracted. If the leaves were of the choicest and
most tender variety, the bolus may be swallowed. Otherwise it is ejected.

Experienced chewers drink a lot of water along with the leaves.

The Ally O, thou blessed that contains no demon, but a fairy!
Wlien I follow thee thou takest me into regions overlooking Paradise.
My sorrows are as nothing. My rags are become as robes of silk.
My feet are shod, not worn and bleeding.
I lift up my head—O Flower of Paradise!

—Arab song, quoted in Dreiser.

The Plant Drying the leaves changes their chemistry, so in Africa the use of khat is depend¬
ent on proximity to the plants or to a fast distribution network. Formerly, the
leaves were drunk in an infusion. WKen European traders arrived in the Yemeni
port of Mocha in the fifteenth century, khat tea was as popular as coffee. But
while coffee beans make good cargo, khat leaves do not, and the rest, as they say,
is history.

Two main varieties of khat are recognized, red khat and white khat, each sold in
the markets under several named grades. Red khat is most preferred, and can be
recognized by the red (rather than white) color of the central leaf vein.

In many parts of Somalia, khat is chewed by a majority of the population. Suc¬
cessful businessmen may have a special room in their houses for khat chewing.
Friends gather in the afternoon, chew khat, and discuss the issues ol the day for
several hours. Or perhaps Koranic exegesis. In rural areas, farmers chew the
leaves before performing the bulk of the day’s work.

In Yemen forty percent of the arable land is devoted to Catha edulis. Chewing
khat cuts across all social lines, chewed by rich and poor alike, by businessmen,
merchants, farmers, and, more recently, students.
143 Catha edulis



Effects About like five milligrams of methamphetamine.” But more euphoric and
much shorter acting.

The Plant The origins of khat are known only from legend. Some of the same stories
telling of the origins of coffee are told about khat: that it was a gift given to two
saints by an angel so that they could spend the night in prayer without dropping
off to sleep.

In another story, again echoing stories associated with the coffee bean, a herder
named Awzulkernayien noticed the effects that the leaves were having on his
goats, who were chewing them. Awzulkernayien proceeded to try the leaves
himself, and was impressed at how he was able to stay up into the late hours
meditating. Awzulkernayien’s name is still mentioned in the ritual prayers recited
before chewing the leaves in the eastern horn of Africa.

Like all psychoactive plants, khat is considered to be holy, to be a sacred gift,
among those closest to it.

One legend is that khat was the energetic medicine that
Alexander the Great used to keep his armies healthy and
moving. An interesting story, in view of the widespread use of
methamphetamine during World War II by the German
Wehrmacht and other armies.

The first written mention of khat is in the 14th century,
when Sultan Sabar Ad-Din stated his intention of planting
khat in the Christian city of Marad after its conquest.

Taxonomy Catha edulis is in the Celastraceae.Wild trees may reach eighty
feet in height. Morphological variability within the species is
high. In some varieties the leaves are opposite, in others alter¬
nate. Mature leaves have a glossy surface and are faintly aro¬
matic. The flowers are small, white, five petaled, and grow in
attractive axillary cymes.

One particularly potent variety of khat comes from Kenya,
where the young stems sprout directly from the major
branches, and contains high concentrations of alkaloids in the
bark as well as in the leaves.

Effects Increased concentration, loquacity, improvement of thought,
general well-being. Alertness. Relief from fatigue and drowsi¬
ness. Enhancement of imagination. Increase in self-confi¬
dence. Improved ability to associate ideas.

These are the same beneficial effects ascribed to low doses of
amphetamine. But how many amphetamine users limit their
intake to five milligrams? A distinct advantage of khat over
amphetamine for many situations is that it is short-acting.
144 EXCITANTIA



Habitual khat chewing may lead to constipation, anorexia, and insomnia. Depri
vation symptoms include malaise and sometimes headaches, not unlike caffeine.

The Vlant In its natural state, khat grows m the mountains of tropical eastern Aliica from
5,000 to 8,000 feet.Tmy white flowers appear in early summer, followed by seed
capsules. Khat is rarely grown from seed, however, but is propagated vegetatively,
from the lower branches, especially the root suckers. Break oft the suckers with a
nice piece of the root attached. It can be potted or planted directly in the
ground. Khat likes good drainage, full or partial sun, and is tolerant of aridity,
poor soil, light frosts, and coastal winds. The plant will respond appreciatively to
a little feeding, especially nitrogen.

Because of its tall habit, a row of khat plants would make an excellent fence-like
hedge for suburban lots. The Sunset Western Garden Book correctly places the
plant in good standing as an ornamental shrub for zones 12,13, and 16-24, which
covers most of the west coast of the United States and some parts of the Col¬
orado desert. Old plants in parks grow to more than twenty feet. Commercial
khat is kept pruned to make it bushier and easier to harvest.

Chemistry In addition to protein, calcium, iron, (3-carotene, B vitamins, vitamin C, tannins
and a volatile oil, one hundred grams of fresh khat leaves contain 36 mg cathi-
none, 120 mg cathme, 8 mg norephedrine, and small quantities of related alka¬
loids. Cathmone is now widely accepted to be the most active alkaloid, respon¬
sible for the greater part of the effects.
OH
o




cathine
(= (+)-norpseudoephedrine)

OH




(S)-(-)"methcathinone (-)-norephedrine
(= (-)-phenylpropanolamine)


In addition to the phenylpropylamine alkaloids, khat contains a group of
phenylpentenylamines, with an extra carbon atom double-bonded in the side
chain. Their concentration is low and their effects have not been much studied,
except that they are known to be only weak dopamine releasers. Khat also con¬
tains another group of alkaloids called cathedulins. Little is known of their phar¬
macology, but they are not thought to contribute significantly to the main effects
of the plant. Khat also contains triterpenes.
145 Cat ha edulis



For some reason, the actual fresh weight of the leaves chewed by khat users
seems to be curiously difficult for scientific researchers to measure. Reported
weights vary between 50 grams and 500 grams. Peter Kalix and Olav Braenden
report 100 to 200 grams, which seems reasonable. As 100 grams of fresh leaves
may average more than 150 milligrams of khatammes, significant quantities of
alkaloid are involved.

Cathmone is found mainly in the young leaves. The cathmone content of the
leaves can be quite variable between different strains, and between different
pickings. Studies have shown that the price of the leaves is highly correlated to
their cathmone content, reaffirming once again the value of bioassay.

Kalix and Braemden (1985) report studies by the United Nations Narcotics Lab¬
oratory that cathmone is a phytosynthetic precursor ofcathme ( (T)norpseudoe-
hedrine), “presumably” by an enzymatic process not fully developed in adult
leaves, thus explaining the high content of cathmone in young leaves but not in
old or withered leaves. If true, this suggests the possibility of using steaming as a
means of arresting the enzymatic degradation, such as the Chinese do with tea,
or the Aborigines with pituri. (But see notes).

Effects As with most substances related to amphetamines, reports of khat’s effects on sex
are mixed. Yemenis generally credit khat with increasing sexual potency. One
study (Elmi), however, found that while both sexes reported an increase in li¬
bido, only the women reported a corresponding increase in performance ability.

I made a short, informal study on the semantics of this point. Women said that
“increased sexual performance” means they would have more orgasms. Men, actu¬
ally, said much the same thing—that is, that “increased sexual performance” means
they would be able to bring a woman to more orgasms. I’m just reporting this.
Still, it does kind of make you think . . .

To continue: in men, Elrni’s study blamed khat for both premature ejaculation
and erectile dysfunction, and thus as a factor in the failure of marriages in Soma¬
lia. An American-educated economist in Yemen, Mohammed Al-Saidi, blames
khat, rather than global market economics, for his country’s poverty, because 80
percent of the population spend four hours every day chewing khat and social¬
izing when they could be working. All agree that there is no crime associated
with khat-chewing, and that khat’s prevalence may be a reason that Yemen has
virtually no reported cocaine or heroin abuse.

Pharmacology While both cathinone and cathine are stimulants, cathmone is far more potent,
and acts more on the central nervous system, while cathine has more peripheral
action.Various animal studies have shown that cathinone acts like amphetamine
at dopaminergic synapses, eliciting release of the neurotransmitter. Drugs that
block the releasing effect of amphetamine also block the same action of cathi¬
none. Rats trained to choose cathinone over saline will choose cathine, when it
is substituted for cathinone, but cathine (in that test) is eight times less potent.
146 EXCITANTIA


Cathinone is more lipophilic than cathine, so it penetrates more easily into the
sites of CNS action.

Cathinone and cathine are equally strong in producing sympathomimetic ef¬
fects, such as norepinephrine release. But since more cathine is required for the
CNS effects than of cathinone, users prefer high-cathinone strains which would
minimize the peripheral effects (sympathomimetic effects such as increased
blood pressure, sweating—the “fight or flight” syndrome.)

Cathinone is metabolized quickly, congruent with the short-acting effects of
chewing khat. In fact, the rate of metabolism of cathinone is about the same as
the rate of its absorption while the leaves are chewed, so the dosage is pretty
much limited to the size of your mouth.

History The chewing of khat has been spreading, especially since World War II. The
British tried to suppress the plant in Somalia in the early fifties, but “even shoot¬
ing” failed to stop its spread (Elmi 1983)- In 1957 the British replaced the prohi¬
bition with an import duty.

Effects In Djibouti, where khat is supplied to the city by airlift, it is said that the effects
of the khat begin to be felt when the plane is heard overhead.

P oesis The Qat Gimlet:

Fill a jar with fresh khat leaves, chopped and bruised. Pour high-proof alcohol
into the jar to the top, working out the air bubbles with a chopstick. Seal the jar
and let macerate in darkness for several weeks. Shake occasionally.

Pour one jigger of the tincture into a glass along with one or two jiggers of
Rose’s lime juice. Add a little effervescent water if that’s the way you like your
gimlets. Add ice, and a straw. Maybe a slice of lime and a nasturtium flower if you
are entertaining. Herbaceous, mildly astringent, wildly successful. The stimulat¬
ing effects far surpass the weak presence of alcohol.

Methylene chloride and methanol are both better solvents for cathinone than
ethyl alcohol, but then what do you do? Since cathinone may be sensitive to ox¬
idation, it might be effective to add a little vitamin C to the chopped leaves, and
to extract the alkaloid as the ascorbate.

I have heard of a quite wonderful khat wine, made with red carnation petals, of
a beautiful strawberry blush color—said to be delicious and most agreeable.

A half-jigger of khat tincture mixed into an absinthe has also received high re¬
views, such as “no more than one per customer. ”

The Ally A rather perfect source of natural amphetamine. The instability of cathinone and
the physical process of chewing the leaves intrinsically limit the kind of abuse
that is so common with speed pills or crystal. Perfectly analogous to chewing
147 Catha edulis



coca leaves, except that with coca the alkaloid is easily extracted. Khat is the
most promising of any of the caffeine substitutes.

In those countries
where plants
are still free.

Matters of State In the United States caffeine reigns supreme. And, outside of the black market
and Liberty and a small number of prescriptions, unchallenged. Coffee is the biggest interna¬
tional commodity after oil, and evidently her corporate servants are not eager to
welcome competition.

The Drug Enforcement Administration has placed cathine into Schedule IV of
the Controlled Substances Act, and cathinone has now been placed on Schedule
I. As if khat chewing, or any of the above mentioned chemicals were any kind of
a problem in the United States. The legal status of the plant, Catha edulis, is un¬
clear. The plant is not specifically mentioned, but it clearly contains a controlled
substance.

Customs officials occasionally seize shipments of Catha edulis being imported for
Somalian communities in the United States, Canada, and Great Britain. Late in
1999, police in California, acting on a tip, arrested two men who had 242 “illegal
khat plants” in the backyard of their home. Canadian police in Toronto have
been cracking down on khat, much to the outrage of the Somali-Canadian
community.




CONTENTS OF A MARDUUFI TEN SMALLER BUNDLES
148
EXCITANTIA


So instead of the gentle khat, we have amphetamine. Ninety percent ol all illicit
drug laboratories busted by the DEA and other law enforcement agencies are
methamphetamine labs. That should tell us something about the demand loi a
good alternative to caffeine. And it should alert us to the irony of a speed culture
in civil war against its own sibling. Such apparent jealousy within the family may
or may not be related to the occult properties of caffeine—the two stimulants are
able to co-exist in'Yemen and Somalia. Still, it would be interesting to apply the
techniques of psychotherapy and family counseling to this dispute within the
excitantia.

The Ally And by now it was that time in the afternoon when the effect of the happy posses¬
sor of khat throughout all Arabia was only too plainly to be seen. The Arab servant
who in the morning had been surly and taciturn under the blazing sun was now,
with a wad of the vivifying leaves in his cheek, doing his various errands and du¬
ties with a smile and a light foot . . . Everywhere the evasive, apathetic atmosphere
of the morning had given way to the valor of sentient life. Chewing the life-giving
weed, all were sure that they could perform prodigies of energy and strength, that
life was a delicious thing, the days and years of their troubles as nothing.

—Theodore Dreiser, “Khat”

Matters of State Some chemistry students in Michigan, desiring to test out the proportional
and Liberty equation

amphetamine : methamphetamine :: cathinone : methcathinone

synthesized a small amount of the methyl analog. Initial reports weie highly pos¬
itive, but the DEA never gave it a chance. Though probably all the people in the
entire United States who had tried methcathinone could have attended the same
basketball game, the DEA used their emergency powers to place methcathinone
on schedule E

Subsequent reports on methcathinone from a few researchers seemingly unde¬
terred by federal law have been more equivocal. Bingeing is said to be common,
with its attendant problems of stress, inability to focus, paranoia, general chaos,
and, ultimately, amphetamine psychosis. WTo would want to do that if he could
get good, short-acting khat, in leaf or in a hot or cold drink? The desire of the
people for an alternative to caffeine is clearly evident. Let the people decide, and
let the plants lead the way.

Our slogan must be repeated again:

TREE THE OUTLAWED PLANTS!

The Ally Working in the garden, grazing a little.
Filling out income tax forms.
For hangover, for the blues, for the blahs.
For staying up late, writing.
 
Just discovered I can get a permit to import khat for personal use for $125 (that doesn't violate pricing rules does it?)
So the problem is obtaining and retaining freshness

Oh... And personal use limit is 5 kg/ month
 
Just discovered I can get a permit to import khat for personal use for $125 (that doesn't violate pricing rules does it?)
So the problem is obtaining and retaining freshness

Oh... And personal use limit is 5 kg/ month
I've grown Khat. It's not useless dried. Wiki:

When khat leaves dry, the more potent chemical, cathinone, decomposes within 48 hours, leaving behind the milder chemical, cathine. Thus, harvesters transport khat by packaging the fresh leaves and stems in plastic bags or wrapping them in banana leaves to preserve their moisture and keep the cathinone potent. It is also common for them to sprinkle the plant with water frequently or use refrigeration during transportation.

It still works, albeit not as well. They used to sell Cathine before the golden age of RC's started. it ain't bad. I'm sure the Cathinones are much better.
 
No idea what sub-forum this belongs in, so I'll just throw it in here.

Has anyone ever successfully grown Ephedra / Khat plants? I'm looking to get into it this year and could use some advice!

Thanks!
Overhere despite fresh Khat being illegal, fresh plants are for sale true reputable plant/ seed vendors. The ones that sell vegetable seed's and ornimental plants/ trees.

So it in my personal theory should be able to be grown overhere, why else sell it? Khat is not able to stand low teperature's I am guessing so a glass house seems essentional. The same place also sell's fresh Coca plant's and all kinds of mescalin containing cacti. But also thing's like Strawberry tree's, Cat repelling plant's and other weird organic live forms.

And there was a thread about just germinated seed's of Ephedra containing Cathine. The degredation product of the active alkaloid of fresh Khat, Cathinone
 
Overhere despite fresh Khat being illegal, fresh plants are for sale true reputable plant/ seed vendors. The ones that sell vegetable seed's and ornimental plants/ trees.

So it in my personal theory should be able to be grown overhere, why else sell it? Khat is not able to stand low teperature's I am guessing so a glass house seems essentional. The same place also sell's fresh Coca plant's and all kinds of mescalin containing cacti. But also thing's like Strawberry tree's, Cat repelling plant's and other weird organic live forms.

And there was a thread about just germinated seed's of Ephedra containing Cathine. The degredation product of the active alkaloid of fresh Khat, Cathinone
Khat is easy to grow. It grows fine in a pot in a window. It's hard (or impossible) to propagate, though.
It's a desert plant and grows pretty slowly. So you would want to have a few plants and propagation matters. San Pedro methods are out. Unless you figure a way to get multiple plants.
I tried and tried to end up with more than my one plant and failed. I got an occasional good quid for years before moving forced me to cut it down.
 
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Have you tried propagating a seed in a humid not soaking wet coffeefilter ( unbleached ) put it inna ziplock. Store in a dark spot with the right temp.

That method worked very well for accelerating the proces on other seed's. Maybe it also works for stuborn seed's.
 
Have you tried propagating a seed in a humid not soaking wet coffeefilter ( unbleached ) put it inna ziplock. Store in a dark spot with the right temp.

That method worked very well for accelerating the proces on other seed's. Maybe it also works for stuborn seed's.
I did see seeds sold once and never got them. Should have.
I was sold a plant. I tried cuttings a bunch of times. Air layering once and layering a bunch of times. I had a plant in the window with a few pots around it and a branch pulled down under the soil in each pot. (layering) Kept them there forever and they happily kept growing, but died once cut from the mother.
My girlfriend was not happy with the aesthetics. :cool: But I did keep at it.

Simple-Layering1_240x240.jpg
 
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Ephedra grows in dry, arid conditions. Soil that has a higher ratio of sand. I grew it once. Took forever and my yield was low. You have to decoct it for 5 minutes and drink the liquid to get the benefits. As it decocts, a foam will form on the surface that needs to be skimmed off. The liquid degrades quickly (within a day) so needs to be consumed soon. If you drink it hot it will make you sweat, which is its medical action.

I personally found growing it unrewarding.
 
Overhere despite fresh Khat being illegal, fresh plants are for sale true reputable plant/ seed vendors. The ones that sell vegetable seed's and ornimental plants/ trees.

So it in my personal theory should be able to be grown overhere, why else sell it? Khat is not able to stand low teperature's I am guessing so a glass house seems essentional. The same place also sell's fresh Coca plant's and all kinds of mescalin containing cacti. But also thing's like Strawberry tree's, Cat repelling plant's and other weird organic live forms.

And there was a thread about just germinated seed's of Ephedra containing Cathine. The degredation product of the active alkaloid of fresh Khat, Cathinone

Ephedra sprouts actually contain S-cathinone. I felt like I was damn near rolling for like 45min before the euphoria dropped off. Felt even better euphoria wise then Amphetamine which says something.

-GC
 
I did see seeds sold once and never got them. Should have.
I was sold a plant. I tried cuttings a bunch of times. Air layering once and layering a bunch of times. I had a plant in the window with a few pots around it and a branch pulled down under the soil in each pot. (layering) Kept them there forever and they happily kept growing, but died once cut from the mother.
My girlfriend was not happy with the aesthetics. :cool: But I did keep at it.

Simple-Layering1_240x240.jpg
Some of my BlueGooseBerry's use that techniqiue to their, and my, advantage. Khat sadly does not apperently. Now we are in this age with all the weed breeding-possibility's, different active chemical's found almost daily. Could through breading and feeding a Khat tree theoratically produce Methylone. The Cathinone version of MDMA, which has an way more reasonable gain/ drain ratio. Feel's like the more natural of the two not MDMA-Lite. MDMA-Natural, Cathinone conaisseur I probably am.

Cathinone's are sometimes totally unlike there Amphetamine counterpart's. Meth-Amphetamine is destructive, Meth-Cathinone sounds like a sloppy stimulant high. MDMA is a bit too forced while Methylone flows way more natural. But with a rapid decline.

Maybe cloning with a young twig will work, with some assistence, for example of a extract of Willow Tree which will promote root growth. Or something like rootstimulator if you are not into DIY.


And acceptance, some plant's just don't multiply that easy.
 
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Some of my BlueGooseBerry's use that techniqiue to their, and my, advantage. Khat sadly does not apperently. Now we are in this age with all the weed breeding-possibility's, different active chemical's found almost daily. Could through breading and feeding a Khat tree theoratically produce Methylone. The Cathinone version of MDMA, which has an way more reasonable gain/ drain ratio. Feel's like the more natural of the two not MDMA-Lite. MDMA-Natural, Cathinone conaisseur I probably am.

Cathinone's are sometimes totally unlike there Amphetamine counterpart's. Meth-Amphetamine is destructive, Meth-Cathinone sounds like a sloppy stimulant high. MDMA is a bit too forced while Methylone flows way more natural. But with a rapid decline.

Maybe cloning with a young twig will work, with some assistence, for example of a extract of Willow Tree which will promote root growth. Or something like rootstimulator if you are not into DIY.


And acceptance, some plant's just don't multiply that easy.
Tried normal cuttings with rooting hormone first. Humidity tent and the whole nine yards.
 
Tried normal cuttings with rooting hormone first. Humidity tent and the whole nine yards.
That basickly covers all of it, stubborn tree then it is.

That is why I was a bit aggrevated when Khat was made illegal ( the fresh bundle's only, they were bullying the Somalian and Ethiopian community's ). And I am way to lazy to put in the effort to grow it myself and the stuff was dirt cheap,

A combo of Cannabis, Kratom and Khat seems to me like the holy grail of affordable naturalness. Only thing missing is a nice natural GABA-ergic, maybe Kava Kava ( also illegal over here ). Add some Mulungu for the occasional sleepless night, voila nice neurotransmitter toolbox.
 
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I'm all for experimenting with things in the interest of health, but coming from a plant means nothing. Many would attest that poppy tea withdrawals are worse than IV morphine withdrawals. Then there are a hundred plants whose contents can kill or torture

I realize this was posted over a year ago but I can never resist attempting to dispel this myth. Coming from a plant does not mean nothing, there are differences between ingesting plants and synthetic chemicals. That's not to say plants are always safer, but they are different and the guy you were responding to said he was looking for a change a pace and plants certainly do represent that in my experience.

In general plants tend to provide a more balanced and wholistic effect profile compared to synthetics. There were over 100,000 drug overdose deaths in the United States in 2022. How many of those were from ingesting plants only? I would wager a very small percentage. In fact, if synthetic drugs suddenly disappeared from the streets drug deaths would literally fall off a cliff overnight. There would still be some, yes you can overdose on opium in its natural form but it's just so much harder to do compared with fentanyl and stuff.

You say there are a hundred plants that can kill or torture. So what? We are not seeing hundreds of thousands of people dying from these plants. In fact, barely anyone is dying from them. Why is that? I would argue it's because there is balance in nature. You see it takes a specific type of substance to kill hundreds of thousands of people. It has to have both a very high rewarding/addictive aspect and be very physically dangerous at the same time. You don't see this very often in the plant world. Most plant drugs have unpleasant side effects at high doses or other safeguards that dissuade large swaths of people from inadvertently ingesting fatal doses of them.

More and more people are beginning to realize that for a variety of reasons plants can do things for people that pharmaceuticals cannot and that's why there is a movement back to plant medicines these days and away from synthetic drugs. That's not to say synthetic drugs don't have their advantages and uses as well but we cannot say that coming from a plant means nothing.
 
I realize this was posted over a year ago but I can never resist attempting to dispel this myth. Coming from a plant does not mean nothing, there are differences between ingesting plants and synthetic chemicals. That's not to say plants are always safer, but they are different and the guy you were responding to said he was looking for a change a pace and plants certainly do represent that in my experience.

In general plants tend to provide a more balanced and wholistic effect profile compared to synthetics. There were over 100,000 drug overdose deaths in the United States in 2022. How many of those were from ingesting plants only? I would wager a very small percentage. In fact, if synthetic drugs suddenly disappeared from the streets drug deaths would literally fall off a cliff overnight. There would still be some, yes you can overdose on opium in its natural form but it's just so much harder to do compared with fentanyl and stuff.

You say there are a hundred plants that can kill or torture. So what? We are not seeing hundreds of thousands of people dying from these plants. In fact, barely anyone is dying from them. Why is that? I would argue it's because there is balance in nature. You see it takes a specific type of substance to kill hundreds of thousands of people. It has to have both a very high rewarding/addictive aspect and be very physically dangerous at the same time. You don't see this very often in the plant world. Most plant drugs have unpleasant side effects at high doses or other safeguards that dissuade large swaths of people from inadvertently ingesting fatal doses of them.

More and more people are beginning to realize that for a variety of reasons plants can do things for people that pharmaceuticals cannot and that's why there is a movement back to plant medicines these days and away from synthetic drugs. That's not to say synthetic drugs don't have their advantages and uses as well but we cannot say that coming from a plant means nothing.
Totally right, there are so many example's to confirm this. Marinol ( synthethic/ or pure THC ? ) didn't work. Cytisine, an extract of Laburnum or Golden Rain is just as effective as the med Varenicline which is prescription only. And the list continues.

Problem is dr's today get an very distorted view forced upon them during study, probably pharmaceutical company's also have an role in this. This is the only expalnation I can think of explaining their lack of knowledge and arrogance.
 
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