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'Good', 'Bad', 'Clean', ACID

Did you ever do any that gave you aches and pains and headaches

Yeah I did some LSD that gave me a headache. Then the next week I took the next blotter along and had a fantastic time.
Same here. I've been using from the same 75 hits from the same sheet of blotter for 1.5 years now. I've tripped over 25 times on it, mostly using 2 hits. Some times I get lots of vasoconstriction and spend hours annoyed with it doing stretching exercises and feeling edgy and buggy. Friends have experienced similar variation between trips on this blotter. Sometimes I get lots of mucus build up in my lungs. Yet other times I break down crying with the sheer joy of existing, totally free of unwanted side effects. Sometimes the room is filled with visuals and I feel mentally lucid, with extreme aesthetic enhancement. Other times, at the same dose, it's more of a body high marked foremost by sensations of shallow hedonistic pleasure. Sometimes I'm floored for a few hours on two hits, other times I feel like I should've taken four hits, etc. etc.

This is all to say that these last 25 or so times tripping on mostly the same dosage of the same blotter has continued the trend of unpredictable, highly varied experiences I've always had with LSD, indeed almost every psychedelic (including RCs at the same dosage from the same batch), I've experienced over 14 years of tripping. The qualitative variance is similar whether it's the same blotter or from different blotter, or a different medium (the "quantitative" intensity is admittedly more consistent within batches than between batches, because, I presume, the ug amount is different). Psychedelics are "mind manifesting," and I've found they are, as would be expected on such a translation, as varied as the mental and physical states of the minds from which they manifest their experience.

Like most others, I have noticed there is some consistency in the quality of psychedelic experiences across short time periods. That is, I tend to get a bunch of edgy, vasoconstricted type trips in a row, or a succession of highly emotional trips, etc., using the same psychedelic from the same batch. This is expected, because things like life stress, how I'm doing with my girlfriend, who I'm hanging out with, and states of physical health tend to come and go in chunks of time (say a week or a month long for most). If I had bought a ten strip of this same LSD, but on different prints, and used it over the period of a couple weeks or a month, and repeated this same pattern over 1.5 years, there would undoubtedly be a lot of consistency in effects correlated with specific 10 strip use periods. But that would merely owe to the fact that small quantities tend to get used up over short periods of time, periods of time that map onto the aforementioned chunks of time defined by some consistent psychological or health state, and are only merely correlated with the concomitant use of some particular brand or medium of LSD.

Most LSD use by most people occurs in just such chunks of time (personally, this is the first time I've ever had a bunch of the same stuff for a long time). More often, users get a ten strip or buy a few sugar cubes at a rave of the same batch of LSD and use it up quick. Then it's dry for awhile or they don't feel like tripping. Then they get some time off or whatever and use a bunch more LSD over another chunk of time. Only now the season has changed, or they met a knew girl, a new job, or they got fatter, etc, and those events color the stretch of time they use the new LSD -- LSD that comes on different prints, or perhaps it's the same print, though they cannot know is the same LSD or not, since the same prints are often laid by different people, or their dealer lied to make a sale, or was lied to himself, etc.

With so much uncertainty, we naturally look for ways to make our experiences more predictable, and so we generalize based on salient characteristics, and those generalizations create expectations, reinforced by social discussions (like some such LSD is dirty or clean), that in turn frame future experiences with LSD that looks similar. And so we start saying "geltabs are almost always better," or microdots, or white on white, or Rolling Stones... And we, naturally, don't want to give up that source of control over an experience that can be so powerful and consequential to our well-being. It's also far easier to recall a single physical feature of a print than all the contextual factors impacting our experience when we used that print, and so that physical particularity of the LSD is amplified relative to other factors when making judgments about the source of experiential influence.

I've seen this phenomena over and over again with drugs and without drugs. Cognitive and heuristic biases define our experience, and are far reaching, powerful, and constant. Also constant is the certainty that we are not relying on such biases, that we're more free of them than others (see "Third Person Effect"), as well as a reluctance to entertain evidence that threatens to make our established beliefs inconsistent with our past or current behavior.

The features that define the context within which we often find ourselves forced to make judgments about the effects of LSD: high uncertainty, powerful emotions, potentially very threatening experiences, wide time ranges, and a strong desire for control -- are so ripe for the subconscious application of these biases of judgment in memory (similar to within a romantic relationship in some senses), that even if there are genuine intrinsic qualities of the blotter that directly effect experience, we can expect that aspect of the experience to be overshadowed so fully by these other factors impacting experience that the reliability of our judgments is hopelessly muddied.

That's why I said it's silly, because even if the effect is genuine, other sources of variance, for which ample evidence has been detailed in this thread, are so powerful, and alternate established explanations are so many, the "signal to noise ratio" is so low, that it is unrealistic to expect that such an intrinsic effect could be tracked consistently within subjective experience -- it's unrealistic to think we could rely on its predictive power. That is, it's highly unlikely to matter in any practical way, no matter its truth or falsity. It's not the concept itself for which I'm reserving my most extreme skepticism, it's for its feasible application.

Phew. Now I will bow out of this thread once and for all. Sometime in the future, the next time this topic comes up perhaps. But to be frank, I've got shit I've got to get to right now.
 
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Interesting and plausible analysis. The tendency for batch to be confounded with life situation (due to overlapping time periods) is one I hadn't thought of, and might explain a lot of people's perceived experience of differences between batches.
 
Like most others, I have noticed there is some consistency in the quality of psychedelic experiences across short time periods. That is, I tend to get a bunch of edgy, vasoconstricted type trips in a row, or a succession of highly emotional trips, etc., using the same psychedelic from the same batch. This is expected, because things like life stress, how I'm doing with my girlfriend, who I'm hanging out with, and states of physical health tend to come and go in chunks of time (say a week or a month long for most). If I had bought a ten strip of this same LSD, but on different prints, and used it over the period of a couple weeks or a month, and repeated this same pattern over 1.5 years, there would undoubtedly be a lot of consistency in effects correlated with specific 10 strip use periods. But that would merely owe to the fact that small quantities tend to get used up over short periods of time, periods of time that map onto the aforementioned chunks of time defined by some consistent psychological or health state, and are only merely correlated with the concomitant use of some particular brand or medium of LSD.

Most LSD use by most people occurs in just such chunks of time (personally, this is the first time I've ever had a bunch of the same stuff for a long time). More often, users get a ten strip or buy a few sugar cubes at a rave of the same batch of LSD and use it up quick. Then it's dry for awhile or they don't feel like tripping. Then they get some time off or whatever and use a bunch more LSD over another chunk of time. Only now the season has changed, or they met a knew girl, a new job, or they got fatter, etc, and those events color the stretch of time they use the new LSD -- LSD that comes on different prints, or perhaps it's the same print, though they cannot know is the same LSD or not, since the same prints are often laid by different people, or their dealer lied to make a sale, or was lied to himself, etc.

Yes I see this as wholly accurate, your whole message indeed. The only true difference i've felt between what I would earlier consider a "clean" vs a "dirty" acid trip is NEVER in the quality of the psychedellia the trips are always distinguishably LSD in visuals and experience overall and always based on possible body woes or symptoms that because apparent, I believed that a marked "metallic" feeling was from less than great acid, and also indigestion, gas were also portions of these trips.

Yet I notice that many friends had gas at certain parts of the trip, or that some trips felt more "tense" than others but they're highly variable between people and trips, and i've never encountered a batch that felt like a holy difference compared to another in terms of these symptoms. I see squirmyness and mild tension as part of a trip, mainly the comeup.
 
That was a killer post, psood0nym. I can resonate pretty well with it in my own experiences.

There are so many factors at play here, if we are including neurochemistry.
We can say "yes this batch is 99%," but mass concensus from the same vial will always be biased towards current state of mind/life, nuerochemical nuances, etc. From the same batch will always spring forth the terms "good", "bad", and "clean" LSD.
We hardly have a grasp on the brain nor the psyche.
 
you also have to consider that iso lsd ergotamine etc may synergise in a good way with lsd for the user and it is the pure stuff is causing all these bad trips and dirty feelings
 
Given the rather tiny mass of any impurities - it's most likely psychosomatic - but there hasn't been nearly enough study to say definitively.
 
ALD 52 explained

The new 1-acyl derivatives of the lysergic acid series thus provided by the present invention are well-crystallizing compounds which form crystalline salts. They are readily distinguishable from the starting compounds by means of the Keller color reaction. Whereas the non- -_ acylated derivatives of lysergic acid and dihydrolysergic acid instantaneously give the typical blue coloration when shaken with glacial acetic acid containing iron chloride and with concentrated sulfuric acid, the new acyl deriva55 tives first yield a colorless solution in which, only after a - period of several minutes, a characteristic coloration develops. The 1-acetyl-lysergic acid compounds are characterized by a violet-blue coloration, while the 1-acetyldihydrolysergic acid compounds give a greenish blue color reaction. With Keller's reagent, the 1-acetoacetyl-lysergic acid derivatives and the 1-acetoacetyl-dihydrolysergic acid derivatives give a green coloration.
The new acyl derivatives of the present invention are stable to dilute acids. On the other hand, when the said acyl derivatives are heated with aqueous.sodium carbonate solution or are allowed to stand with alkali, the acyl group is hydrolytically split off. The new products of the invention possess pharmacodynamic properties which are generally similar to those of the corresponding nonacylated lysergic acid derivatives, and can therefore generally be used like the latter. In some cases, improved properties result from the acylation.

Source: http://www.google.com/patents/US2810723?printsec=abstract#v=onepage&q&f=true
 
there is lsd, there is non-lsd (5-meo-amt, dox), there are l-alikes (lsm, n-alkyl-laa's), there is lsd with a variety of unreacted precursors which may or may not be physiologically active. Ehrlich's reagent would differentiate between complex lysergamides and other things, but that is not of much help. These days most of the non-lsd on blotter are probably n-aklyl-laa's. The dob/5-meo-amt on blotter trend is mostly dead (it was more common during the post-pickard drought), and doc/doi is more often sold as itself unless you are way, way, way at the bottom of the market chain. Ultimately, unless you've got a gc/ms, you will have to rely on your experience and what you are told.

But "needlepoint", "fluff", "silver", "amber", "lavender," etc. Is definitely a bunch of bullshit. Just brand names. No more significant than the stamp on a bag of dope or the press of a roll, and even easier misrepresented, just by calling something a name.

qft.
 
Coming from experience in trying lysergamides regularly for years in multiple forms from xtal to blotter. I feel that set and setting has an influence on the outcome of a person's perception of a clean/dirty trip. Having said that, I've noticed that the higher the purity of the chemical, e.g. LSD blotter that is laid at 100ug and is 60ug so about 60% pure compared to other LSD that is 100ug that is 90ug so 90% roughly, I feel things run a little smoother and the euphoria is better.

LSD xtal is out and available and properly tested/analysis to be LSD. I've tried the other lysergamides there is a difference specifically LSD has much less allergic reactions on people for a start even with short-term experimentation with small crowds.

The difference isn't extremely significant, to be honest I got very into the chase of high purity of LSD and after review I'd like to say those are the two factors I believe to be the influence and that the influence is really quite marginally and just dependent on the situation. Just deal with it really. Don't get too deep into it as it's not a big an influence as people think but it exists.

The names lavender etc are bullshit, but it's just helpful for the purity scale. If you understand that the LSD is 80% pure but laid at 100ug a drop that is 80% LSD and 20% impurity. There is very varying batches of LSD in the market, even currently in Europe right now.

I've experiemented with multiple batches of LSD, of the same blotter/supposed liquid but new stuff and multiple sheets of certain types stored in different ways so I've a lot of experience in approaching the different situations or scenarios that could potentially affect the trip in 'clean' ways.
 
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Taste plays a profound role.I think that completely tasteless acid is BALLS hard to find,almost impossible.
I've had a ~142ug sour-like blotter and it was meh
I've had a ~130ug bitter blotter and it hit me VERY hard

You can't really judge from anything else,i think taste is the only criteria (if you don't own a chemistry lab lol).
 
Taste plays a profound role.I think that completely tasteless acid is BALLS hard to find,almost impossible.
I've had a ~142ug sour-like blotter and it was meh
I've had a ~130ug bitter blotter and it hit me VERY hard

You can't really judge from anything else,i think taste is the only criteria (if you don't own a chemistry lab lol).

if you dont have a chemistry lab how do you know your blotter had 142ug of LSD on it?? from what i have seen from GC/MS results its actually kind of rare to see LSD over the 100ug mark on blotter
 
IMO acid is acid
As long as it's LSD on your blotter the only difference should be potency and amount, otherwise I don't see why the highs should be any different.
I've never heard of differences in highs from possibly improperly synthesized LSD.
 
Hi there,

I realise the only way to finding out if acid is good or bad or clean is actually down to taking the acid in question, and then after the trip deciding on what it was like.

However, I would like some one to help me with the whole 'needlepoint' 'amber' crystal malarkey.

Is it true that there is some acid out there that is 'purer' / 'cleaner' than other types of acid?

Could not so pure/clean acid be described as bad acid?


What effects can you attribute to 'bad' acid?

I know sometimes on acid I have felt slightly odd in my body, sometimes a my muscles might feel stiff, or my stomach may be a bit unsettled.. is this due to bad acid?

How would you describe clean acid?

I would have to think that the word clean acid may come from a trip that goes well, where the overall feeling giving to the tripper is that off slight euphoria, crystal clean almost high definition visuals, which gives the illusion to the tripper that its 'clean' acid, where as in fact someone on the same stuff could be having a not so great time and convince himself that its dirty acid??

*However, I must note I did have what some would call (even I still do) 'clean' acid, in england (liquid). Every one was raving on about it saying how good it was, the visuals off it were very placid, very high definition, as if you almost didnt know you were tripping, but you very much were so, as it if was just stuck to your eyes or something.

So I guess what I would like cleared up is,

Whats bad acid?
Whats clean/good acid?
What is all the mumbo jumbo with the different types of LSD crystals
Can/does some LSD have impurities in it?

I read briefly elsewhere here that the only difference between good and bad is simply the LSD25 molecule decomposing. As in LSD25 is LSD25 and that's that.

Many thanks for your time.

Yes, there are "purer" or "cleaner" types of acid. But usually the main issue is acid being completely FAKE and not containing LSD at all but rather another psychedelic active at milligram or less dosages so they can fit on blotter paper, like 25i-nbome.
 
The whole "dirty" LSD vs "clean" LSD thing is a myth as LSD is LSD, and no two experiences on it are the same. Nowadays sometimes "acid" that's out there is really an RC and not LSD. I agree that the different names for LSD are nothing but marketing/brands but it was always like this.
 
I don't there is good or bad acid, just that the expectations before and during the trip have such a large impact on your experience that some trips are so different than some other trips that it gives the illusion of there being good and bad acid.
 
Damn, this thread is old! But fwiw, back in the 90's when L flowed like rivers. My friends and I would sometimes get acid that was noticeably speedy and would cause significant muscle spasms - that's what we would call 'dirty acid'. But, it's not like we ever knew for sure what was on those blotters back then so who knows?
 
I can't see there being an impurity active at a smaller dose than LSD powerful enough to overwhelm the effects of LSD tho.
 
I can't see there being an impurity active at a smaller dose than LSD powerful enough to overwhelm the effects of LSD tho.
That's what I've always said as well. Not to mention that the degradation products of LSD have all been tested in man and found to be inactive.
 
Well made LSD is always beautiful, sometimes intense, but always a beautiful experience. As stated by Acid trippin this would be the 90ug LSD to a 100 ug, therefore 10% trace impurities. I've had some obviously beautifully made trips in my time a few back in the 90's and a few 2003-2014. Well made LSD speaks for itself, profoundly, euphorically, magically, spiritually, ideologically all at once in an almost divine Manifestation of your own mind and the world around you. No rank ass farts here.

The LSD common here is often of... well lets just say I get acid farts. 40 ug of some impurity may not seem like much but the 60 ug of LSD is doing something so perhaps some impurity causes me a mild reaction resulting in me being full of foul smelling ass farts. Basically a mild allergic reaction. They always smell the same... chemically. Can last longer than the trip. So double drop 120 ug LSD 80 ug impurity = rank farts. These kind of trips though I've had exactly what psood0nym described minus the vaso-constriction, well not that extreme anyway. No headaches but stiff neck and joints. Drop one weekend have a blinder, Drop 10 days later and just feel sick/nauseated and lay on your bed to fucked up to move. Two weeks later drop and have a profound mystic experience.
 
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