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Good arguments for sticking only to natural drugs?

Humans don't shit LSD, K, and meth. These things are made in a lab, with toxic chemicals. Webs come naturally from the spider's spinnerets.
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belladonna is a "natural" plant. (not like those dirty man-made toxic chemicals)
eat plenty of it


the spider web example is the first one that came out of my mind
they have web-producing glands, humans have ideas-producing brains

since humans don't produce a similar substance, think of blood instead

a blood transfusion implies some mechanic, but no "unatural" products
is it too "unatural" to be "good"?

if you don't like the spider example, think of a bird building its nest
how is that more natural than humans building wooden houses?... and tall buildings when they have mastered the technique?

and how is making a metal alliage more or less natural than making 2 chemicals react together?

Btw - since Vegan posted
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Btw - since jamshyd posted :)
it makes me think of people who pretend that homosexuality is unatural
well, it happens in nature. how can that be labelled "unatural"?

like he said, the ayahuasca brew doesn't pop up in nature. humans have to prepare it
just as they have to prepare other (not) "unatural" drugs

some preparations are just already done without the intervention of man, some require little intervention and some more
both later ones are the "natural" fruits of humans' "natural" thoughts and actions
 
For me, it's not about whether or not a drug is natural; my rule for drugs is I will only do a drug if it gives far more than it takes. I don't do MDMA, not because it's unnatural but because I don't find one night of bliss to be worth the weeks of hell after. For me, it's just far too damaging.

LSD, I find a little damaging (I usually feel somewhat depressed and slow the next few days) but it gives me enough that I consider it worth doing once in awhile.

Shrooms, I feel better than normal the next day; which is why shrooms are probably my favorite psychedelic of that nature. I never feel brain damaged from shrooms at all, they always effect me really good.

It would seem the way I'm laying it out there is that the natural stuff is better, but take 2-c-b... I love 2cb and it's not natural. Because it never leaves me feeling sick or brain damaged after. Where as something like opium (which I only tried a couple times) is natural but makes me feel like I'm going to vomit for hours after I use it. Not worth it.

So yeah.. it's an individual thing and natural is not always better. I don't think the act of doing any drug is "natural"..
 
I really relate to what you're saying there, Deja. For me it's pretty much the opposite; MDMA and I were made for each other, but me and shrooms have never got along well. LSD's great, but shrooms have an almost malevolent tone to them. I get the same epiphanies, but whereas with LSD it's like "look, the universe is amazing!" and with shrooms it's like "yeah, it's amazing, but life fuckin' sucks."

Can't really figure out how this turned into a debate over what is "natural" and what isn't, since that's not what MDAO asked about and there has already been a link posted to the appropriate thread for that discussion. For the purposes of his question I think we all know what he means. Sometimes it's more constructive to just leave ontology at the door. :\
 
Yeah, I have a good friend who has nothing but positive experiences with MDMA, where as doing E lead me down a bad road into one of the darkest times of my life.... E, to me is just.... horrid, horrid horrid. Bllleeeechhhh. :p It's interesting how different people's brains take the same chemicals and do different stuff with it. :)

2cb seems to do to me what E does to most people... without the horrid side effects.
 
Like sticking to activities that produce a natural high?

I'm stuck on playing with your brain chemistry to produce things that qualify.

-I suppose you could fast and then eat a delicious meal.
-Running or doing any sort of vigorous exercise.
-Try to stay awake for long periods of time and upset your natural body clock. Although probably more a sensation that's disturbing.
-Get into various forms of meditation.
-Experiment with light therapy/tricking yourself out using lights. Its possible.
-Heavy Chinese acupuncture. Makes me spaced out, unable to walk, etc.
-Tai Chi? I haven't done it, but some people say it works for them.
-Oxygen/fresh air does wonders.
-Swimming in an ocean/lake etc.
-Dancing. go figure.

Anything else I'm forgetting? Maybe total sensory blackout, Transcendental Meditation.

Doing activities that activate different parts of your brain. Like using your opposite hand for long periods of time. Not for jacking off, but for writing etc.

Maybe I missed the point. Is there such as thing as a natural drug/natural high?

Christ, just having a good day sometimes is enough.

Oh, I thought of another one. Donating blood.
 
I enjoy a mushroom trip more than an acid trip. The former seems more 'earthy'. There may be some subconscious reasons as to why that is though.
 
jpgrdnr said:
Like sticking to activities that produce a natural high?

I'm stuck on playing with your brain chemistry to produce things that qualify.

-I suppose you could fast and then eat a delicious meal.
-Running or doing any sort of vigorous exercise.
-Try to stay awake for long periods of time and upset your natural body clock. Although probably more a sensation that's disturbing.
-Get into various forms of meditation.
-Experiment with light therapy/tricking yourself out using lights. Its possible.
-Heavy Chinese acupuncture. Makes me spaced out, unable to walk, etc.
-Tai Chi? I haven't done it, but some people say it works for them.
-Oxygen/fresh air does wonders.
-Swimming in an ocean/lake etc.
-Dancing. go figure.

Anything else I'm forgetting? Maybe total sensory blackout, Transcendental Meditation.

Doing activities that activate different parts of your brain. Like using your opposite hand for long periods of time. Not for jacking off, but for writing etc.

Maybe I missed the point. Is there such as thing as a natural drug/natural high?

Christ, just having a good day sometimes is enough.

Oh, I thought of another one. Donating blood.
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You're forgetting a pretty obvious one, although I suppose it could count as "vigorous exercise" ;) hehe.
 
Max Power said:
I enjoy a mushroom trip more than an acid trip. The former seems more 'earthy'. There may be some subconscious reasons as to why that is though.
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Getting into subjective effects really makes this conversation quite tricky. 'Earthy' could mean a million different things to a million different people. It's more effective to adhere to objective qualities when attempting to categorize and compare substances.
 
there's no fucking difference

our body produces the industrial solvent GHB for normal metabolism

when people talk about "natural drugs" being better in some way it hurts my ears; and 99% of the time it's total nonscience myths because what drugs are varies between individuals as much as religious pref
 
naginnudej said:
Getting into subjective effects really makes this conversation quite tricky. 'Earthy' could mean a million different things to a million different people. It's more effective to adhere to objective qualities when attempting to categorize and compare substances.
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mushrooms have always seemed (from trip reports, BL, ime though i havent had LSD i have had LSA) more organic and curvy, with plant vines crawling up my arms. LSA was more sharp and geometric, and stimulating. so i would say, in this particular case, shrooms feel more "natural". but both shrooms and LSD are kings in their own ways! just because LSD may not feel as natural compared to shrooms doesn't mean it doesn't have its own very natural- and amazing- feeling
 
qwe said:
mushrooms have always seemed (from trip reports, BL, ime though i havent had LSD i have had LSA) more organic and curvy, with plant vines crawling up my arms. LSA was more sharp and geometric, and stimulating. so i would say, in this particular case, shrooms feel more "natural". but both shrooms and LSD are kings in their own ways! just because LSD may not feel as natural compared to shrooms doesn't mean it doesn't have its own very natural- and amazing- feeling
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I don't think you fully understand what I'm saying. Allow me to paint you a picture so you can better understand where I'm coming from.

When I walk to school I enjoy pulling leaves off a particular tree and playing with it between my fingers. It's a nice contrast to the city streets around me and it feels 'natural.'

Just the other day while tripping I pulled a leaf off that same tree; this time, however, the leaf had the consistency of laminated paper. In no way did it feel 'natural.'

It's a matter of perception. ya dig? :)
 
The one valid argument that I see is that so-called 'natural' drugs (criticisms of the natural/synthetic distinction are well-taken and beat me to the punch) tend to have vastly longer track-records of human use. Thus, in lieu of scientific study, there's a basis to assess relative toxicity.

ebola
 
naginnudej said:
I don't think you fully understand what I'm saying. Allow me to paint you a picture so you can better understand where I'm coming from.

When I walk to school I enjoy pulling leaves off a particular tree and playing with it between my fingers. It's a nice contrast to the city streets around me and it feels 'natural.'

Just the other day while tripping I pulled a leaf off that same tree; this time, however, the leaf had the consistency of laminated paper. In no way did it feel 'natural.'

It's a matter of perception. ya dig? :)
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i see. still, both our explanations are moot because that difference in effect between LSD and mushrooms for us may not exist for others (yours doesn't exist for me i don't think, and vice versa) as each individual psychedelic and each individual user is totally unique and their combination plus setting produces the trip
 
qwe said:
i see. Still, both our explanations are moot because that difference in effect between lsd and mushrooms for us may not exist for others (yours doesn't exist for me i don't think, and vice versa) as each individual psychedelic and each individual user is totally unique and their combination plus setting produces the trip
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ymmv ;)
 
Max, I'm the exact opposite of you. LSD has never done me wrong, no matter how bizarre some of the effects can get. Mushrooms have always hit me with far more headfuck than I'm prepared to handle, and in my experience, really pull no punches. I really WISH I was able to enjoy mushrooms, since they're quite a bit easier to make than LSD, and many people seem to report pure transcendent bliss from them.

opiYum, you make a good point. It seems that drawing a line between 'processed' and 'unprocessed' substances is kind of arbitrary. When someone cuts buds and dries them and cures them, is that 'processed'? How about chewing a drug? That's arguably processing too.
 
Max Power said:
Oddly enough, this is part of what attracts me to them.
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Yep, me too. Mushrooms are terrifying and I've quite literally thought I was going to die on more than one trip... this is part of what I'm looking for out of the tripping experience.. I view a mushroom trip like a beautiful, strange, and sometimes hilarious scary movie. 8o:|=D

ps- there's nothing like waking up in afterglow the next morning after and being SOOOO happy and blessed to be alive! :D
 
personally mushrooms are the most euphoric thing i've ever tried, and there's never been an unwanted emotion
 
capstone said:
As with anything we ingest into our bodies, the more its processed, the less nutritional value it has. Same goes with drugs.

I'm going to simplify this here, as a comparison between pot and meth:

Pot grows from the ground, while meth requires poisonous chemicals.
Grow pot, the cops might kick in you door; cook meth, and you might blow yourself up.
Cannabinoids are naturally occurring in human hormones, while meth kills you.
One cannot OD on pot, while thousands every year from meth.
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I think I just got a bit more stupid from reading this post.
 
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