Opioids Going from Heroin (almost surely laced with or mostly fent) to subutex- help with induction time! Anyone here gone from IV fent to subs without PW?

[Amphetam3m3]

Hi there,

Long time reader and first time poster here. I've made the switch from heroin to subutex many times, usually only waiting 18-20 hours and inducting with no problem/ never precipitated withdrawal. However, the heroin I've been doing most recently I'm pretty sure is very cut with fent. My reason for believing this is because upon relapsing exactly two weeks ago I had taken a sub roughly 24 hours prior and still caught a wicked nod. In my experience, fent is the only opiate that's been able to break through the buprenorphine's high binding affinity to the receptors.

I use IV, and have been reading about people waiting 24, 30, even 48 hours after their last shot of fent and still going into precipitated withdrawal. This is something I am terrified of. I also am living with my parents and they are not aware that I've relapsed. Becoming violently ill will raise questions and they are already quite frustrated with me.

I have been reducing my daily intake greatly over the past few days so that I am only doing a fraction of what I was. My last shot was a cotton rinse, just to give you an idea of how much I've cut back in hopes that this will help with induction as well.

I have 10 10mg norcos and while I doubt they will help much, I was planning on taking them to help me get through work tomorrow (my first day off the shit, my last dose being around 4pm today) in hopes that it I take them around 20-24 hours after my last dose that they can stave off some of the withdrawal, and then 24 hours after taking the norcos I will (hopefully) be able to induct without precipitated withdrawal. For what it's worth I missed a little bit of a shot, and I know fent can take longer to be absorbed subcutaneously.

Additionally, I have at least 15 1mg klonopin along with gabapentin and clonidine at my disposal.


My two questions are, is there anyone on here who has successfully inducted subs following an IV fent habit and NOT gone into precipitated withdrawal? If so, how long did you wait? And my second question is, while I know it's more about your withdrawal symptoms than time, do you think I'll be safe to induct 48hours after my last shot of fent laced heroin?

Any and all support is appreciated, I'm quite nervous.

 

[Synergist1]

Hey- i just went thru that nightmare process a few times over the past couple months. I was off subs for 2 yrs prior to relapsing after surgery.
Honestly, and this is just my experience..: ( and it still doesnt make sense why its so much harder to induct on subs than i recall... id done fent analogues in past , id considered shitty generic bupe strips might add to the pains )
I found a variation on the bernese method worked the best. It was still uncomfortable for at least 4 days. I doubt i could have made it to work for 3 days.
The best option is to get more short acting pain killers like your doing, and stay on them for 2-3 days.
But see my thread , i did my best to document everything.
The only diference is i had fent on hand when i was taking micro doses of subs. .25-.5 mg. So if PWD did occur, i had a safety net.
If u only have 10 10mg hydros, it gets a little scary.

 

[Rxoxo]

Hi there,

Long time reader and first time poster here. I've made the switch from heroin to subutex many times, usually only waiting 18-20 hours and inducting with no problem/ never precipitated withdrawal. However, the heroin I've been doing most recently I'm pretty sure is very cut with fent. My reason for believing this is because upon relapsing exactly two weeks ago I had taken a sub roughly 24 hours prior and still caught a wicked nod. In my experience, fent is the only opiate that's been able to break through the buprenorphine's high binding affinity to the receptors.

I use IV, and have been reading about people waiting 24, 30, even 48 hours after their last shot of fent and still going into precipitated withdrawal. This is something I am terrified of. I also am living with my parents and they are not aware that I've relapsed. Becoming violently ill will raise questions and they are already quite frustrated with me.

I have been reducing my daily intake greatly over the past few days so that I am only doing a fraction of what I was. My last shot was a cotton rinse, just to give you an idea of how much I've cut back in hopes that this will help with induction as well.

I have 10 10mg norcos and while I doubt they will help much, I was planning on taking them to help me get through work tomorrow (my first day off the shit, my last dose being around 4pm today) in hopes that it I take them around 20-24 hours after my last dose that they can stave off some of the withdrawal, and then 24 hours after taking the norcos I will (hopefully) be able to induct without precipitated withdrawal. For what it's worth I missed a little bit of a shot, and I know fent can take longer to be absorbed subcutaneously.

Additionally, I have at least 15 1mg klonopin along with gabapentin and clonidine at my disposal.


My two questions are, is there anyone on here who has successfully inducted subs following an IV fent habit and NOT gone into precipitated withdrawal? If so, how long did you wait? And my second question is, while I know it's more about your withdrawal symptoms than time, do you think I'll be safe to induct 48hours after my last shot of fent laced heroin?

Any and all support is appreciated, I'm quite nervous.

I have went from fent to subs many times without PWD. I don’t do IV though, I snort the fent. I usually do quite a bit of fent the night before, then have a tiny bit when i wake up in the morning, then go to subs around noon or 1:00, or whenever I start yawning. It seems that alot of people get those PWDs and I’ve always been unsure why I have not. I think everyone is just different.

 

[ickray]

Subs seem to stop working as fast the worse your habit gets, at least in mine and a few others I know experiences. When I was snorting "real" heroin, I could take a sub 12-16 hours later in minimal withdrawal and not get PWDS. The worse my IV habit got, the less withdrawals the sub would take away, and it would take 2-3 days for me to stop feeling sick. I'd still feel pretty shitty, have the sweats, runny nose etc, for 2-3 days although the sub helped make them bearable. Another thing is if I took the sub any less then 24 hours, I'd definitely go into PWD's although it wasn't as bad as the time I took a sub 8 hours after doing dope with a bundle a day habit. I kind of just felt the sweats and uneasiness coming on about 20-30 minutes after taking the sub.

So to answer your question, to be on the safe side, it's always a good idea to wait 24+ hours before taking a sub. Literally wait until you feel like you're dying, because trust me if you go into PWDS you're going to wish you were dead, lol. It's the fucking worst. You could also save a small shot of dope to have around just in case you do go into PWDS, but that takes some willpower.

 

[creamcheese]

New here too. Used H for ~8 yrs and always took sub about 15-18hrs in when felt proper shitty and then relief. If I could wait 20-24hrs total relief.
Got clean for a couple years now I use fent nasal. Hate needles. Half to a whole a day for 3 years. And me and a few buddy's can't take subs no more without precip withdrawal. I even got clean for three days and on the fourth was so wanting something I took a piece of sub, 5 mins later hell for 5-6 hrs. We can't find out why.
Should I switch back to H for a week to do subs. Cause I'm sick of Imodium and no comfort drugs.

 

[mostly-human]

Yeah you just gotta tough a few rough days there's no way to wait long enough while getting sicker and sicker and have it better than just roughly switching

Also I found start small with bupe, if it makes you feel worse, eat more bupe and so on

Sounds counterintuitive but I was given that advice by a doctor and it worked for me

 

[gfieldboy84]

I just posted a question about this. I'm pretty sure I got h laced with fent, now I'm on subutex maintenance I took a 2mg then 24 hrs later I scored what I thought was h it was almost certainly fent. (Just cause of the way I felt) I copped 12 bags and only used 5 or 6 I acsually threw the rest out, it took me 36 hrs to use the 5 or 6 bags. It's now been 13hrs since my last fent shot. Should I be safe to redose my subutex???

 

[Deru]

It typically takes 24 to 36 hours to avoid precipitated withdrawals going from fentanyl to buprenorphine. Fentanyl, even with a short half-life, when used for long periods of time, becomes incredibly difficult for the body to eliminate from the tissues, causing an incredibly long duration to fully eliminate the drug from the body. If it's one single time use of fentanyl or not long term use, the time will significantly reduce to percent precipitated withdrawals. One trick, is start slow when inducing, like 0.5mg, and if you have no precipitated withdrawals in an hour, take another 0.5 mg. That will prevent a lot of misery if you induce too quickly. Microdosing is another method being researched to deal with these exact issues.

 

[NicoOregon]

Hey- i just went thru that nightmare process a few times over the past couple months. I was off subs for 2 yrs prior to relapsing after surgery.
Honestly, and this is just my experience..: ( and it still doesnt make sense why its so much harder to induct on subs than i recall... id done fent analogues in past , id considered shitty generic bupe strips might add to the pains )
I found a variation on the bernese method worked the best. It was still uncomfortable for at least 4 days. I doubt i could have made it to work for 3 days.
The best option is to get more short acting pain killers like your doing, and stay on them for 2-3 days.
But see my thread , i did my best to document everything.
The only diference is i had fent on hand when i was taking micro doses of subs. .25-.5 mg. So if PWD did occur, i had a safety net.
If u only have 10 10mg hydros, it gets a little scary.
[/QUote

Hey- i just went thru that nightmare process a few times over the past couple months. I was off subs for 2 yrs prior to relapsing after surgery.
Honestly, and this is just my experience..: ( and it still doesnt make sense why its so much harder to induct on subs than i recall... id done fent analogues in past , id considered shitty generic bupe strips might add to the pains )
I found a variation on the bernese method worked the best. It was still uncomfortable for at least 4 days. I doubt i could have made it to work for 3 days.
The best option is to get more short acting pain killers like your doing, and stay on them for 2-3 days.
But see my thread , i did my best to document everything.
The only diference is i had fent on hand when i was taking micro doses of subs. .25-.5 mg. So if PWD did occur, i had a safety net.
If u only have 10 10mg hydros, it gets a little scary.

Synergist is speaking TRUTH. If you're trying to kick heroin and transition over to Subutex then the Bernese method is the way to go. It's too bad many people give up on the idea of Sub induction. Thr PWithdrawals are hell and scare a lot of people to the point where they wont even try. This method works! Microdosing is where its at!

 

[Playernm3]

Hi there,

Long time reader and first time poster here. I've made the switch from heroin to subutex many times, usually only waiting 18-20 hours and inducting with no problem/ never precipitated withdrawal. However, the heroin I've been doing most recently I'm pretty sure is very cut with fent. My reason for believing this is because upon relapsing exactly two weeks ago I had taken a sub roughly 24 hours prior and still caught a wicked nod. In my experience, fent is the only opiate that's been able to break through the buprenorphine's high binding affinity to the receptors.

I use IV, and have been reading about people waiting 24, 30, even 48 hours after their last shot of fent and still going into precipitated withdrawal. This is something I am terrified of. I also am living with my parents and they are not aware that I've relapsed. Becoming violently ill will raise questions and they are already quite frustrated with me.

I have been reducing my daily intake greatly over the past few days so that I am only doing a fraction of what I was. My last shot was a cotton rinse, just to give you an idea of how much I've cut back in hopes that this will help with induction as well.

I have 10 10mg norcos and while I doubt they will help much, I was planning on taking them to help me get through work tomorrow (my first day off the shit, my last dose being around 4pm today) in hopes that it I take them around 20-24 hours after my last dose that they can stave off some of the withdrawal, and then 24 hours after taking the norcos I will (hopefully) be able to induct without precipitated withdrawal. For what it's worth I missed a little bit of a shot, and I know fent can take longer to be absorbed subcutaneously.

Additionally, I have at least 15 1mg klonopin along with gabapentin and clonidine at my disposal.


My two questions are, is there anyone on here who has successfully inducted subs following an IV fent habit and NOT gone into precipitated withdrawal? If so, how long did you wait? And my second question is, while I know it's more about your withdrawal symptoms than time, do you think I'll be safe to induct 48hours after my last shot of fent laced heroin?

Any and all support is appreciated, I'm quite nervous.

Long time reader here. Want to help in any way I can. The Bernese method works good but I was still going into WD and if you're an addict, it's really hard to taper when you have all the good stuff available (just my personal experience). Anyways...I was on fentanyl powder for 1.5years before I did anything about it - pretty heavy habit (couple grand per month). I have a sub doctor but they’re pretty clueless with the science of induction. Typical response is “wait 18 hrs until you feel like sh*t and take your sub.” They think it’s that simple. One time I waited 36 hours and tried 2mgs and went into PWD in 5 mins. Be careful bc you don't know what fent or fent analogue you have and sometimes can linger in your body much longer that pure fent. Anyways, this might help you. I’ve been playing around with how to induct subs quicker without the PWD and this is what works for me. You’ll need (1) suboxone and (2) a strong full agonist opioid (opana, fent pills, fent powder, H, etc.).

As a caution - this is what works for ME and could be different depending on your individual chemistry.

Whenever I go on small binges of a week or so or have been consistently on for a month or so, this is what I do. Pick a target date you want to fully transition. The last two to three days I’ll take a small amount of suboxone (.5mgs). Take the sub (and remember you have your receptors full with your choice of opioid). I wait 30-45 mins until you feel PWD come on (and trust me you'll freakin' feel it). When that happens, I’ll take a bump of the full agonist and PWD goes away (if you're IV'ing I'm not sure how this would work, but maybe do as small a dose as you need to feel anything). 1-3 hours later I’ll do the same but with a higher dose of sub (1mg). Again, wait until you start feeling the subs fight for the receptors and take your full agonist again. You can do this a couple more times throughout the day and then repeat the next day and so on. You’ll notice the effects of the full agonist get weaker and weaker the more sub you have in your system (unless you’re doing massive doses of full agonists which is counter to your objective). I think what’s going on is the subs will rip out the fent from the receptors which causes PWD. But then when you take the fent it bumps out some or most of the subs and stops the PWDs. Since subs half life is super long, you’ll gradually build up a decent dose of sub floating around your system. So when you’re ready to transition to subs, it’ll be much smoother since the subs is replacing the fent once it metabolizes and leaves the receptors (it's not doing so violently). This way, after your last full agonist dose, you’ll have subs already in your system and won’t experience much, if any, WD and don’t have to wait 24-72hrs to induce suboxone. I’m still playing around with the protocol but it seems to be doing the trick. Just always make sure to have a strong full agonist opioid on hand while you’re adjusting protocol to save you from the PWDs. Again, this works for me, it might not work for everyone so feel free to try this, BUT DO IT AT YOUR OWN RISK. Hope this helps.

 

[NicoOregon]

Long time reader here. Want to help in any way I can. The Bernese method works good but I was still going into WD and if you're an addict, it's really hard to taper when you have all the good stuff available (just my personal experience). Anyways...I was on fentanyl powder for 1.5years before I did anything about it - pretty heavy habit (couple grand per month). I have a sub doctor but they’re pretty clueless with the science of induction. Typical response is “wait 18 hrs until you feel like sh*t and take your sub.” They think it’s that simple. One time I waited 36 hours and tried 2mgs and went into PWD in 5 mins. Be careful bc you don't know what fent or fent analogue you have and sometimes can linger in your body much longer that pure fent. Anyways, this might help you. I’ve been playing around with how to induct subs quicker without the PWD and this is what works for me. You’ll need (1) suboxone and (2) a strong full agonist opioid (opana, fent pills, fent powder, H, etc.).

As a caution - this is what works for ME and could be different depending on your individual chemistry.

Whenever I go on small binges of a week or so or have been consistently on for a month or so, this is what I do. Pick a target date you want to fully transition. The last two to three days I’ll take a small amount of suboxone (.5mgs). Take the sub (and remember you have your receptors full with your choice of opioid). I wait 30-45 mins until you feel PWD come on (and trust me you'll freakin' feel it). When that happens, I’ll take a bump of the full agonist and PWD goes away (if you're IV'ing I'm not sure how this would work, but maybe do as small a dose as you need to feel anything). 1-3 hours later I’ll do the same but with a higher dose of sub (1mg). Again, wait until you start feeling the subs fight for the receptors and take your full agonist again. You can do this a couple more times throughout the day and then repeat the next day and so on. You’ll notice the effects of the full agonist get weaker and weaker the more sub you have in your system (unless you’re doing massive doses of full agonists which is counter to your objective). I think what’s going on is the subs will rip out the fent from the receptors which causes PWD. But then when you take the fent it bumps out some or most of the subs and stops the PWDs. Since subs half life is super long, you’ll gradually build up a decent dose of sub floating around your system. So when you’re ready to transition to subs, it’ll be much smoother since the subs is replacing the fent once it metabolizes and leaves the receptors (it's not doing so violently). This way, after your last full agonist dose, you’ll have subs already in your system and won’t experience much, if any, WD and don’t have to wait 24-72hrs to induce suboxone. I’m still playing around with the protocol but it seems to be doing the trick. Just always make sure to have a strong full agonist opioid on hand while you’re adjusting protocol to save you from the PWDs. Again, this works for me, it might not work for everyone so feel free to try this, BUT DO IT AT YOUR OWN RISK. Hope this helps.

This is a brilliant idea! I've thought about doing this with minor modifications, but this is spot-on! Thank you so much for sharing something that actually can HELP some make the transition fairly easily. Well done!