Benzos GHB withdrawal

[tyler5]

Hey there,

I've been using GHB for the last 10-14 days, about 20mL/day.
How much is that approx. when converted to benzos?
I want to use BZD's to come off GHB.

Thank you in advance for any help

 

[tyler5]

any thoughts at all?

 

[《Plasticity》]

There is no conversion as the two have a different MOA and neither can be used to substitute each other. GHB is a GABAb agonist while benzos work on GABAa, GHB is not a benzo. You haven't been using GHB too long, have you tried abstaining yet? You might not even have withdrawals, or at least anything that would be considered dangerous. You can use benzos to ease the pain of GHB withdrawal but you'll still be in withdrawal and unfortunately no amount of benzos will change that.

 

[tyler5]

everything You said is true, but benzos eliminate almost ALL withdrawal symptoms. thats a fact.

benzos can be substituted for the GHB/GBL w/d just fine. I know I'm not the 1. person to do it either
About 4-6mg xanax 2 times a day seems to be working well. I will switch to rivotril and the valium.

Oh, and I've been using benzos for 15+ years and abstained from them for the whole length of time while I was using GHB. im sure i wouldve been in SERIOUS benzo wd. thanks to GHB though, nothing happened-its as though they are both GABA agonists and therefore mutuable to a high degree.

 

[sekio]

20 mL a day is probably on the top range of what is able to be cold-turkeyed with no problems... aside from maybe anxiety.

I think you need to be sucking down a lot of GHB on a like, hourly basis before you get addicted. It gets broken down real fast in the body.

 

[mankind]

GBL withdrawal was terrible.

Not as bad as heroin or benzos, but stilll absolutely horrible. I can still remember dreadfully having to learn how to physically walk and use my body again, as well as speak in coherent sentences.

Out of all the drugs I've ever done (pretty much all in my 2 decade career, GBL is the one drug that when ingesting actually feels like you are putting a poison or toxic chemical in your body.

 

[tyler5]

wow, that wmust've been "trippy"..learning how to walk again..teh fcuk?!?
you cold-turkeyed it, right? guess it caused some kind of damage or whatnot. you are correct that it feels like poison - EXACTLY like alcohol does. but its effects are FAR better and more pleasing, better then benzos and those are alcohol in pills also, in that they are also depressants and react to alcohol.

 

[《Plasticity》]

everything You said is true, but benzos eliminate almost ALL withdrawal symptoms. thats a fact.

benzos can be substituted for the GHB/GBL w/d just fine. I know I'm not the 1. person to do it either
About 4-6mg xanax 2 times a day seems to be working well. I will switch to rivotril and the valium.

Oh, and I've been using benzos for 15+ years and abstained from them for the whole length of time while I was using GHB. im sure i wouldve been in SERIOUS benzo wd. thanks to GHB though, nothing happened-its as though they are both GABA agonists and therefore mutuable to a high degree.

Benzos are not cross-tolerant with GHB/GBL, that is a fact. To say that the two are interchangeable is a dangerous and incorrect statement, one that could possibly be harmful should it be taken as gospel by someone going through benzo withdrawal, especially when GHB further lowers the seizure threshold.

GABAa agonists do not completely abate withdrawals from GABAb agonists so although they are both "GABA agonists" they do not work on the same target site. They have an entirely different MOA and are absolutely not cross-tolerant. You may have gotten some relief, or perhaps your withdrawal wasn't as bad as you thought it was gonna be (it happens, a fellow BL'er recently quit a 10 year K-pin habit with no WD), but the two are not entirely interchangeable by any means.

 

[Beings]

Damn, you must have really strong G. 20ml is 4-5 vials, or like 5-6 caps, how that can keep you buzzed over 24 hours is a mystery.

Can you sleep at night? OR you wake up every 3 hours and need to take more before you can sleep? If you can sleep, you are not quite addicted yet. But as others said dont do it daily.

 

[phatass]

double post oops

 

[phatass]

baclofene made GHB a cakewalk IME... also had benzos, but no baclofene the first time i w/d from G.... dunno if it's backed up scientifically, but it worked wonders IME...

just my 0.2

good luck

edit... thread that may help http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/328200-GBL-GHB-withdrawal-HELP

 

[tyler5]

Plasticity: i know that they work on different GABA sites, but how do You explain the fact, that i abstained COMPLETELY from my usual 6-8mg clonazepam intake for 14days+ while using GHB 24/7 during all this time? Do You really think GHB had 0% importance in the fact that i had NO benzo withdrawal symptoms? i shouldve been "dying" of benzo w/d, ive been on them for 15+ years now (6-10mg/day) yet i had zero w/d symptoms.

I havent touched GHB since and am back on my regular benzos now.

Beings: The GHB I had was 4-5ml/dose, regular stuff. i wouldnt say it kept me buzzed 24h but 30mL was enough for most of the day, yes.

 

[EnlightenedOne1]

There is no conversion as the two have a different MOA and neither can be used to substitute each other. GHB is a GABAb agonist while benzos work on GABAa, GHB is not a benzo. You haven't been using GHB too long, have you tried abstaining yet? You might not even have withdrawals, or at least anything that would be considered dangerous. You can use benzos to ease the pain of GHB withdrawal but you'll still be in withdrawal and unfortunately no amount of benzos will change that.

This is correct. I'm very prone to withdrawals and even after taking 100ml plus of naGHB (dosing every 2-3 hours around the clock) for 4 weeks, I stopped and experienced with minimal to 0 withdrawal symptoms. I maybe had one sleepless night. You can try Phenibut of Balcofen but with your dosing protocol and amount of time consuming the drug, there will be no need.

 

[the_ketaman]

Im surprised people are saying you can cold turkey. I haven't used too much G even though its my favourite drug(its just very hard to get) but I would definitely thing 20ml a day for 10-14 days would certainly cause withdrawals dangerous enough to warrant a taper. and besides, why risk having a seizure when the OP said tapering with benzo's is possible.

If I were you id cease use, wait until your feeling pretty terrible then depending on what benzo your using maybe start with 20mg of Valium, 2mg Xanax/Clonazepam or equivalent doses of whatever benzo, if that isn't helping then double the dose but I wouldn't be taking more than 40mg of valium of 4mg of Xanax/clonaz coz you will just end up with a benzo habit. Stay on that dose for 2-3 days then start reducing my 2.5mg every 2 days. That might be being overly safe but GABA drugs as everyone knows aren't a joke and better safe than sorry.

Im not jealous of the habit but im so jealous of all these people that get GHB/GBL so easily. I only tried it 4-5 times 7-8 years ago and I would get so incredibly euphoric and my libido would skyrocket! I hear of 2 types of people, people that find G boring and not euphoric and others that find it almost orgasmic(there is a sweet spot for sure though like many drugs have, for me that was 2.5ml of GBL). Its quite big in the Sydney gay community probably because it mixes with crystal meth like bread on butter and both crystal and G are both very sexual drugs and if you know what the gay communities around the world are like(most are quite similar) then you'd know that they will do anything to make sex better. You go to some clubs down there and the floor is littered with those soy sauce bottles shaped like a fish by the end of the night. Funnily enough ketamine is the other main drug in the gay community and im not quite sure why, it's sub-k-hole doses, so maybe its just that K maybe gives your mind a break for an hour or so if you've been clubbing and having a lot of sex. In tiny doses people say it can feel like MDMA(I cant agree there) so I don't know, maybe its used to make the obvious pain of copping a large body organ where the sun don't shine easier. I cant say but I totally understand the G & ice thing.

I guess a lot of people get addicted to it because its an anxiolytic as well and a sleep aid, but for me its only useful for long sex sessions that include crystal meth, maybe a rave and on the tail end of a Psychedelic or MDMA dose. Its one of the few CNS depressants that don't dull the effects of the MDMA/psych, K the only other "downer" type drug that doesn't seem to dull the trip/roll. I remember it being very, very cheap too. The retail prices ive heard people paying are probably triple what I used to pay for it but I guess if you get it cheap it could be easy to binge on. GABA drugs scare me too much to let myself become dependent on though. Ive used benzo's for over 10 years and only ever been dependent once, they get stashed until I absolutely need them or im coming down off a stimulant, im pretty sure it takes a much shorter amount of time to become physically dependent on G than benzos.

 

[the_ketaman]

Plasticity: i know that they work on different GABA sites, but how do You explain the fact, that i abstained COMPLETELY from my usual 6-8mg clonazepam intake for 14days+ while using GHB 24/7 during all this time? Do You really think GHB had 0% importance in the fact that i had NO benzo withdrawal symptoms? i shouldve been "dying" of benzo w/d, ive been on them for 15+ years now (6-10mg/day) yet i had zero w/d symptoms.

I havent touched GHB since and am back on my regular benzos now.

Beings: The GHB I had was 4-5ml/dose, regular stuff. i wouldnt say it kept me buzzed 24h but 30mL was enough for most of the day, yes.

4-5ml's with no tolerance is a massive dose isn't it? It must have been mixed with a fair amount of water or something. 2-3ml should be plenty! And G would never last 24 hrs, its always lasted 4-6 hours for me. I still don't 100% get the deal with redosing though, I know that you can run into problems. Its something like if you redoes too soon its like having double the dose or something and an overdose is much easier to achieve. Can anyone explain this for me please?

 

[sekio]

sodium GHB is actually a salt which should be measured in grams... measuring GHB in mL is useless because there is no such thing as a standard concentration of GHB that is sold worldwide, it could be anywhere from 0.01g to 2 grams per mL..

you can figure out the concentration by measuring a known amount of solution into a container you know the weight of, and then boiling the water off and weighting the residue

 

[dez79]

I second the ghb is hard to get ones hands on statement and even GBL customs are all over that shit ATM...

 

[Demigodz4Life]

In response to plasticitys comment about them not being interchangeable... there is a paper published about ghb withdrawal, and the person requested medical help due to hallucinations and what not. Even 20+ mg iv lorazepam didn't control serious effects from withdrawal. Hallucinations persisted. This must have been published before it was common place to use baclofen in that setting. But wouldn't bzds help with excess glutamate common place in gaba agonist withdrawal, regardless of receptor subtype? It seems that while they wouldn't ameliorate all the symptoms, it could help with partial symptomatic control

 

[highdroxy]

im pretty sure you could stop right here right now if you REALY want to..If your experiencing anxiety than it must be the benzos you've took over the years... i was on 120Mls per day for a period of 2years and had to be hospitalized and detoxed.

20Mls/day means stop, or else you'll begin to dose every hours and you wont like the long term experience..trust me Ghb delirums are no fun!

now it feels sooo good to sleep without waking up shaking cause u need to dose

 

[EnlightenedOne1]

Im surprised people are saying you can cold turkey. I haven't used too much G even though its my favourite drug(its just very hard to get) but I would definitely thing 20ml a day for 10-14 days would certainly cause withdrawals dangerous enough to warrant a taper. and besides, why risk having a seizure when the OP said tapering with benzo's is possible.

If I were you id cease use, wait until your feeling pretty terrible then depending on what benzo your using maybe start with 20mg of Valium, 2mg Xanax/Clonazepam or equivalent doses of whatever benzo, if that isn't helping then double the dose but I wouldn't be taking more than 40mg of valium of 4mg of Xanax/clonaz coz you will just end up with a benzo habit. Stay on that dose for 2-3 days then start reducing my 2.5mg every 2 days. That might be being overly safe but GABA drugs as everyone knows aren't a joke and better safe than sorry.

Im not jealous of the habit but im so jealous of all these people that get GHB/GBL so easily. I only tried it 4-5 times 7-8 years ago and I would get so incredibly euphoric and my libido would skyrocket! I hear of 2 types of people, people that find G boring and not euphoric and others that find it almost orgasmic(there is a sweet spot for sure though like many drugs have, for me that was 2.5ml of GBL). Its quite big in the Sydney gay community probably because it mixes with crystal meth like bread on butter and both crystal and G are both very sexual drugs and if you know what the gay communities around the world are like(most are quite similar) then you'd know that they will do anything to make sex better. You go to some clubs down there and the floor is littered with those soy sauce bottles shaped like a fish by the end of the night. Funnily enough ketamine is the other main drug in the gay community and im not quite sure why, it's sub-k-hole doses, so maybe its just that K maybe gives your mind a break for an hour or so if you've been clubbing and having a lot of sex. In tiny doses people say it can feel like MDMA(I cant agree there) so I don't know, maybe its used to make the obvious pain of copping a large body organ where the sun don't shine easier. I cant say but I totally understand the G & ice thing.

I guess a lot of people get addicted to it because its an anxiolytic as well and a sleep aid, but for me its only useful for long sex sessions that include crystal meth, maybe a rave and on the tail end of a Psychedelic or MDMA dose. Its one of the few CNS depressants that don't dull the effects of the MDMA/psych, K the only other "downer" type drug that doesn't seem to dull the trip/roll. I remember it being very, very cheap too. The retail prices ive heard people paying are probably triple what I used to pay for it but I guess if you get it cheap it could be easy to binge on. GABA drugs scare me too much to let myself become dependent on though. Ive used benzo's for over 10 years and only ever been dependent once, they get stashed until I absolutely need them or im coming down off a stimulant, im pretty sure it takes a much shorter amount of time to become physically dependent on G than benzos.

You are incorrect. It takes MONTHS of 24/7 GHB dosing around the clock i.e. every 2-3 hours, to experience withdrawals worthy of something profound. I just quaffed down 2 liters of GHB in less than 4 weeks and I went CT and was fine. GBL would be a different story.