Benzos Gabapentin(Neurontin) for benzodiazepine withdrawal.

[Shadypark]

I'd like to hear everyone's opinion on using gabapentin for benzodiazepine withdrawal. I have had some success using gabapentin to help reduce the amount of benzos I take. Its seems to me that gabapentin potentiates small levels of clonezepam. They both work on GABA receptors.
I've read several studies that say it is completely safe to combine these two medicines, especially while using long acting benzos like Valium in low doses. Anyway, I have a ruptured disc in my neck and two in my back from a life in the US Army Infantry. So, I have to take the gabapentin anyway. Thats when I noticed that I did not need as much Klonopin. Has anyone else had any experience with these two drugs/drug types.

 

[negrogesic]

Yeah gabapentin helps, but it definitely doesn't provide full coverage in cases of full-blown benzo withdrawal (ie, dropping to zero). During full blown benzo withdrawal following an extended period of benzo use (which is a truly horrific thing to experience -- something I've gone through twice in my life, and is something you never 100% recover from), gabapentin can definitely help (especially with regard to sleep), but is only at most somewhat effective in reducing the terror of severe benzo withdrawal.

And while it does help a bit, the flipside is now you're dependent on gabapentin. I currently have a nightly phenibut habit that stems from trying to kick a gabapentin habit I had 8 years ago, which in turn stemmed from trying to kick a pregabalin habit I had 9 years ago, which in turn stemmed from trying to kick a benzo habit I had 10 years ago.

 

[Lil'LinaptkSix]

The only way I have found to mitigate benzo WD is to long taper (if on for a while and at sometimes recreational doses). There may be a slight change in the drop in dosage but it is basically a non issue. Depending on surrounding, support, mental/physical well being, diet etc. A lot of factors come into play here and the worst is the fear of letting them go IME and not knowing what to expect. The unknown... not so scary if ya ask me.
Best of luck with this.
Keep us posted?
Peace

Or another benzo that may be easier to drop at some point.

 

[Shadypark]

I agree, In fact, you have to take a pretty hefty dose of gabapentin to get that relief. That is what causes you to get addicted to gabapentin. I've been taking benzos for 25 years. In the beginning, I took low doseages, and never took them everyday.
I was involved in the invasion of Iraq. I was with the 3rd ID, which was the spearhead division that fought all the way into Baghdad. It was super crazy. I came back home and needed some benzos. Hell, I needed benzos before the war. In 2006, I went back for the surge, and that wasn't a vacation neither. So, Ativan is what the Army gave me, and that help somewhat. But, your right about using one thing to get off another. However, I think benzo withdrawal is worse than Gabapentin withdrawal.

 

[negrogesic]

However, I think benzo withdrawal is worse than Gabapentin withdrawal.

Yeah definitely. Benzo withdrawal is much worse. Its a living nightmare.

Compared to benzo withdrawal, gabapentin withdrawal wasn't that bad -- except when it came to sleep. After finishing a gabapentin taper to get off of a high dose of pregabalin, I was fine during the day, but when it came time to sleep I simply couldn't. Eventually i broke down and got some phenibut and have been taking it to sleep ever since.

 

[Shadypark]

The only way I have found to mitigate benzo WD is to long taper (if on for a while and at sometimes recreational doses). There may be a slight change in the drop in dosage but it is basically a non issue. Depending on surrounding, support, mental/physical well being, diet etc. A lot of factors come into play here and the worst is the fear of letting them go IME and not knowing what to expect. The unknown... not so scary if ya ask me.
Best of luck with this.
Keep us posted?
Peace

Or another benzo that may be eas

 

[somnilicious]

Yeah definitely. Benzo withdrawal is much worse. Its a living nightmare.

Compared to benzo withdrawal, gabapentin withdrawal wasn't that bad -- except when it came to sleep. After finishing a gabapentin taper to get off of a high dose of pregabalin, I was fine during the day, but when it came time to sleep I simply couldn't. Eventually i broke down and got some phenibut and have been taking it to sleep ever since.

Benzos withdrawal is the only drug wds that made me physically inflict pain on myself so I wouldn't have to feel it for a minute. I cut my arm with a brand new fillet knife and had to have surgery. I punched and slammed my head up against a wall repeatedly till my vision was red with blood....

I watched friends have seizures and break their 2 front teeth. Also watched a girl, who had been a regular on a reality show build imaginary sets out of sofa cushions and blankets in her living room for a week because she thought she was filming for the show.

I have physically withdrawn off methadone, benzos, ghb, gabapentin, Lyrica, alcohol and phenibut. All paled in comparison to benzos...

Benzos and methadone at the same time were hell on earth... 2015.... Still not sure I'm right in the head yet

The worst part was sitting in rehab and the halfway house listening to heroin addicts tell me I was a bitch cause I wasn't better and they had withdrawn from the king drug in their eyes and would hear no different. I wish I could have addicted everyone of their bitch asses and laughed while they cried in pain.

 

[Shadypark]

Benzos withdrawal is the only drug wds that made me physically inflict pain on myself so I wouldn't have to feel it for a minute. I cut my arm with a brand new fillet knife and had to have surgery. I punched and slammed my head up against a wall repeatedly till my vision was red with blood....

I watched friends have seizures and break their 2 front teeth. Also watched a girl, who had been a regular on a reality show build imaginary sets out of sofa cushions and blankets in her living room for a week because she thought she was filming for the show.

I have physically withdrawn off methadone, benzos, ghb, gabapentin, Lyrica, alcohol and phenibut. All paled in comparison to benzos...

Benzos and methadone at the same time were hell on earth... 2015.... Still not sure I'm right in the head yet

The worst part was sitting in rehab and the halfway house listening to heroin addicts tell me I was a bitch cause I wasn't better and they had withdrawn from the king drug in their eyes and would hear no different. I wish I could have addicted everyone of their bitch asses and laughed while they cried in

 

[Shadypark]

I think Benzo withdrawal is the worse. I went through Fentanyl withdrawal, and I was on it for years. However, after 2 days you can start taking suboxone and get some relief. You might not feel great, but it does help. Let me be clear, opioid withdrawal is an absolute nightmare, but benzo withdrawal is a slightly different animal. Heart rate at 129 all day awake 4 days, your feet get cold as ice for some reason. plus about a million different neurological problems than make you rip your veins out, and you can't set still. I guess the only thing worse would be going through both of them at once.

 

[djpurity]

I have had better success with pregabalin tbh, as gabapentin just doesn't work the same for me, and it has so many things that it interacts with. For example, I have been taking magnesium nightly and found that now I'm supposed to take gabapentin 2 hours after magnesium or 4 hours before! And some other things.

Pregabalin just works better for nerve pain and that's why I have it prescribed. Anyway, I did taper clonazepam at the same time as phenibut once, and I just tapered the clonazepam by reducing each 2 weeks very similarly to the Ashton method which I'd done prior. And the phenibut I was using baclofen, agmatine, and NAC, and then I added pregabalin at bedtime for sleep support, and when I finished the benzo taper I felt no discomfort or withdrawal at all when done!

And I finished the phenibut taper a week or so later. BUT I think very much I had such a successful benzo taper was bc of what I was really taking to get off phenibut which also was painless.

I think the pregabalin made a big difference, but so did the agmatine, NAC, and baclofen.

Anyway, fast forward, pregabalin always causes withdrawal for me, very bad. This time now I did try gabapentin for pregabalin withdrawal and it worked but I also am getting off clonazepam again, and it just doesn't work the same, and I'm taking the baclofen, agmatine, and NAC, yet the reductions don't feel as easy and I'm not sleeping.

So while gabapentin may not work for all, pregabalin may work better. Or it may not. It may depend highly on gene stuff and enzymes and science and individual stuff. There's pros and cons of each, but I get side effects from both, esp peripheral edema, gabapentin more in my feet, pregabalin more in my hands and feet and face.

I've heard also gabapentin is great for opioid withdrawal but found it totally ineffective for that. So I think it could be that maybe your genetics determine whether it works or not and maybe pregabalin would or wouldn't be a better option.

But that's my experience. If you can learn anything from it.

 

[djpurity]

I'd like to hear everyone's opinion on using gabapentin for benzodiazepine withdrawal. I have had some success using gabapentin to help reduce the amount of benzos I take. Its seems to me that gabapentin potentiates small levels of clonezepam. They both work on GABA receptors.

Btw gabapentin does not work on the GABA receptors. Benzos bind to GABA-A subtype receptors at a specific binding points to modulate GABA. Gabapentin actually just basically blocks voltage gated calcium channels (VGCCs).

It does not directly work on any GABA receptors at all. They are not even the same class of drugs/meds. GABApentinoids do mimic GABA bc they are analogs of GABA, but they do not actually bind to GABA receptors of any subtype (A, B, or C).

The calcium channels are used to send excitatory signals down the line, and by blocking them, specifically at the subtype of VGCCs that they do, they slow down transmission excitability and can affect nerve pain and all that, although science and research doesn't know everything at any given time.

However, both can be used as anti-convulsants. They can affect the seizure threshold, although only benzo withdrawal can cause seizures and death (so can alcohol and barbiturates), but gabapentin would only cause seizures in those being treated for a seizure disorder to begin with if stopped, although it isn't entirely unheard of, just extremely unlikely to occur in someone without an existing seizure disorder.

Meanwhile I've had seizures from benzodiazepine withdrawal and esp from clonazepam which caused them back to back without stopping for days until someone in one of several ERs I was shuffled between finally figured out that clonazepam actually stops them. I had been in delirium for days prior to the seizures in that case, so no one knew I had tapered myself off and had no clue how to even use a phone or tell time.

But anyway, I only say this to clarify that they both do NOT work on GABA receptors. Benzos only bind to GABA-A subtypes to modulate GABA as I said, and not to GABA-B or GABA-C. And gabapentin does not bind to or act as an agonist at any GABA receptors. Just to clarify!

But yeah, the name "GABApentin" makes it seem like it would affect GABA directly, but it merely is an analogy of GABA.

 

[Shadypark]

Btw gabapentin does not work on the GABA receptors. Benzos bind to GABA-A subtype receptors at a specific binding points to modulate GABA. Gabapentin actually just basically blocks voltage gated calcium channels (VGCCs).

It does not directly work on any GABA receptors at all. They are not even the same class of drugs/meds. GABApentinoids do mimic GABA bc they are analogs of GABA, but they do not actually bind to GABA receptors of any subtype (A, B, or C).

The calcium channels are used to send excitatory signals down the line, and by blocking them, specifically at the subtype of VGCCs that they do, they slow down transmission excitability and can affect nerve pain and all that, although science and research doesn't know everything at any given time.

However, both can be used as anti-convulsants. They can affect the seizure threshold, although only benzo withdrawal can cause seizures and death (so can alcohol and barbiturates), but gabapentin would only cause seizures in those being treated for a seizure disorder to begin with if stopped, although it isn't entirely unheard of, just extremely unlikely to occur in someone without an existing seizure disorder.

Meanwhile I've had seizures from benzodiazepine withdrawal and esp from clonazepam which caused them back to back without stopping for days until someone in one of several ERs I was shuffled between finally figured out that clonazepam actually stops them. I had been in delirium for days prior to the seizures in that case, so no one knew I had tapered myself off and had no clue how to even use a phone or tell time.

But anyway, I only say this to clarify that they both do NOT work on GABA receptors. Benzos only bind to GABA-A subtypes to modulate GABA as I said, and not to GABA-B or GABA-C. And gabapentin does not bind to or act as an agonist at any GABA receptors. Just to clarify!

But yeah, the name "GABApentin" makes it seem like it would affect GABA directly, but it merely is an analogy of

 

[Shadypark]

I am completely aware of that. I don't think anyone in here thinks that gabapentiin is a benzodiazepine or even close to one. Gabapentin blocks the tonic phase of nociception induced by formalin and carrageenan, and exerts a potent inhibitory effect in neuropathic pain models of mechanical hyperalgesia and mechanical/thermal allodynia. Gabapentin is an anti-epileptic agent, originally developed as a (GABA)-mimetic compound to treat spasticity, and has been shown to have potent anticonvulsive effects. It is also used as an adjunct, combined with low dose diazepem for benzodiazepine withdrawal. The chemical structure of gabapentin (Neurontin) is derived by addition of a cyclohexyl group to the backbone of gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA). But, you are right, gabapentin has no direct or indirect effect on GABA-A.

 

[ISYMFS88]

Pregabalin tapered down to Gabapentin levels got me off Brown and benzos [and technically halted crack also although that could of been me].

I was drinking a little on the way off a little yes but as I'm not or ever have been an alcoholic [yes an addict] I use a start of 600mg PG TO taper down.

Had the st1ts pretty bad until be brown cleared then it was mostly depression and severe housebound anxiety ,most of which I Have suffered with for over 20yrs.

The truth is and I swear this to you subjectively ,it was not only easy tapering off but once the finally gabapentin dose was done ,odd beer drank....I was fine ,no big PG/GP comdown for month ,within 2 weeks I was......well positive and almost happy and I stayed mostly positve thru the taper.

I Have Mirtazapine prescribed from my GP for over 20yrs so sleep and appetite were only a prob once I over did them as PG/gp don't really aid sleep for me.

I had alot of stinky cold sweats thru Winter and very hyper periods of activity but nothing manic or too dark.

So yes compared to a benzo taper ,compared to coming of brown, methadone, subutex and crack.....it was really easy ,and I really feared the worst.


Disclaimer thou ,this was aa very Subjective solo ,non -rehab observed self trial ,I got lucky.

I wish you the best ,Benzos were thee worst W/D's I ever had but there is a light at the end of toilet ,u just have 2 swim thru absolute shit.

 

[negrogesic]

Yeah definitely pregabalin is more helpful than gabapentin with regard to benzo withdrawal. Pregabalin has more pronounced anxiolytic effects and is more comforting. That said, it doesn't really stop the process of benzo withdrawal, but it definitely makes one a little more comfortable.

I've found that the only thing that truly helps benzo withdrawal is time (which is a tough sell given the amount of time involved).

 

[Shadypark]

The new wisdom is to use gabapentin as an adjunct in benzo tapering. They use low dose Valium(because of it's long duration of action), and gabapentin to help with the anxiety. I'm not sure whether they are doing the same with pregabalin, but maybe they should. The combination of the two, with one potentiating the other, means you can use less Valium in the detox process. And because gabapentin is an anti-convulsive, and so is diazepam, it works out pretty good. I am fan of using both of them together even when not tapering. I have a ruptured disc in my neck, anxiety, insomnia, ptsd from combat, so I need both anyway. I take about 1200MG of gabapentin per day( 4 times per day 300mg) and about 3mg of clonezepam(1mg x3). They work well together, and since I suffer from debilitating insomnia, it really works out. I've never taken pregabalin berore, but it sounds like people are saying it is better, so I may try it. It was great chattiing with you all, I learned a lot from your comments.

 

[Lil'LinaptkSix]

I really don't "know" but I feel pregabalin would ease one off a low dose jump from benzos. idk
gabapentin... maybe but still if at a lose dose it would have to ease WDs if there are any. depends on dosing I guess.
so maybe.

 

[ISYMFS88]

@Lil'LinaptkSix

It defo [PG] help the jump off for me off Brown although use wasn't super heavy then ,codeine ,crack and all a variety of Benzos ,I used 600mg PG ,once I was down to 150mg PG which is the lowest I could source locally safely [UK] I had to switch to Gabapentin to lower me to what was planned as 25mg PG Alt but at 200mg gabapentin ,I stopped and awaited a vicious low come down from PG/GP as after all they stimulate GABA receptors like benzo [although I'm not sure if its the other 'alcohol one ,forgive my ignorance' ......honestly ,despite it being winter ,me living alone with very little funds or any idea of the future I started to feel actually in a good mood within a fortnight then after a month ,I felt notably more social and myself and others noticed too.

I'm not saying to people hey if you have heroin ,methadone ,subutex ,crack ,benzo and booze addiction then PGs and/or GP will fix it ,they could just as easy give you another addiction ,however as I was addicted to them all I summized PGs would be the best drug to come off of last or at worst stay on only that.

It worked totally for me ,that's all I'm stating. Just my experience.

If your benzo ,booze or opioid use is already super sky high ,you are guna need to cut down and sub the brown for something measurable like meth or subbies in my opinion and get the benzos down to the longer acting ones only ,Diazepam or clonazepam bearing in mind clona is about twice the strength. The Alprazolam and Lorazepam have gotta go first although some would disagree.

Also if hitting the crack pipe is your thing or coke ,I feel a PG taper also helped immensely ,if you are addicted to the lot as I was ,dump the stims first as that's much easy no matter how high your use.
One disclaimer is I loved booze but it was never an addiction and PGs really amplify booze so beware.

Expect the unexpected when you are clean or cleaner ,I was dreading guilt and memories destroying me or forcing a relapse ,instead my brain did what it did in the block [the hole] whilst I was in prison ,it kinda found a safe place or humour where I could laugh in retrospect at my idiocy ,not dwell in nostalgia that probably never went down ,how you think you recall .

Disclaimer- I was /am the strongest combo of anti-ds possible in the UK -Mirtazapine+venlafaxine ,I can't pretend they didn't help.

 

[ISYMFS88]

I really thought PGs acted on the same GABA RECEPTORS as alcohol and Benzos on the other hence how much more booze affects you on both however I stand corrected so all good, I learnt something.

SHADYPARK ,if you are all good on GP ,don't try a PG as you will like it better ,yes it means you take less pills but a PG is a different 'buzz' TBH than GP and more addictive IMO.

If you are stable on your doses and it sorts your pain then its all good. Out of interest why 3 x 1mg clona a day ,I think [feel] the halflife to be 12hrs or thereabouts or 2 x 1mg which = 2 x 10mg Diazepam I believe is classed medically as a high dose already ,you could have fast metabolism of course ,PGs have also very low HL's so I assume GPs do .

I'm not trying to rewrite a script that is working well for you ,I just know the less for the most effect the better but as said ,if you are all good ,don't change a thing.

 

[Lil'LinaptkSix]

I just find it easier to jump from a train at 1.32mph than 10000mp.
ymmv
this is so open to factors and all kinds of other shit.
i done jumped a cou[ple times.
one was horrifying... the others quite mild to none.
again ymmv
best thing is dont worry yaself to death ove dropping benzos just get it down to a reasonable level, level off, drop dose again (maybe skip) whatever to get that dependency down as low as possible. Slow train no pain. lol
peace yall