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Free Will... & Is Everyone an NPC if there is no free will?

birdup said:
How can you believe in Biblical evil if free will doesn't exist?
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good evil do not exist in non duality only in duality.

Judgement is when we label things good or bad. In reality things just are. They are all part of god. God has written some twisted stories into this drama or play of life. Don't judge the events. Just live it
 
I don't think I do judge. I'm at peace. I'm talking about you. So, the communists are part of God. We agree on that. What I don't understand is why you let it get to you?
 
i have beef with the commies due to living under this government. it fucks me off. I would escape this country asap if i could.

I never want to live ever again in a socalist country
 
TripSitterNZ said:
my character in this simulation is still gonna be a karen about the commies
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My character is going to continue to try and convince you otherwise. ;)
 
Your thoughts and actions are controlled by the subconscious there for you have the illusion of conscious control but the boys in the background have the joystick.
 
It's a good question. Back in days when I really had problems with this, I eventually found the possibility of randomness to be enough for the possibility of free will to exist. Thank you, QM.
Otherwise, we can't really say. Or at least I can't. But it's enough for me to know, that there is a chance.
If there was no randomness, I don't see how you could have free will. Even though a system as complex as human mind might seem like non-determinist.
 
As far as I understand: there is actually no such thing as randomness. Mathematically, it doesn't exist. I'm pretty sure it doesn't exist in nature, either... It only exists in theory.

@darkkoon
Tell me something that is truly random.
 
Well, I need to research the topic more. But I want to believe....
Could you give me some thoughts why there could not exist true randomness in reality?
I understand your point, but is it absolutely against the fabric of reality?
If it's mathematically posssible, then it could happen in the fabric of reality too.
After all... universe is just math happening around us.
 
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It doesn't exist in maths or nature.

I'll explain it to you like this. I don't know if you play games. I don't care. These are my reference points. They used to use the term randomly generated levels in video games. Now they use the term procedurally generated. The reason for this is simple. If levels were randomly generated, there wouldn't be any mountains or rivers. The map would just be a mess. The same thing applies to nature.

I couldn't be bothered explaining it further. Google it.

I could be wrong.
 
birdup said:
It doesn't exist in maths or nature.

I'll explain it to you like this. I don't know if you play games. I don't care. These are my reference points. They used to use the term randomly generated levels in video games. Now they use the term procedurally generated. The reason for this is simple. If levels were randomly generated, there wouldn't be any mountains or rivers. The map would just be a mess. The same thing applies to nature.

I couldn't be bothered explaining it further. Google it.

I could be wrong.
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Randomness is defined by a string of numbers that cannot be simulated by an algorithim that is smaller than the number.

The number o. 333444333444333444... for example could be described by an equation for n digits alternate three 3s and 3 fours until n is reached. A random number (like the digit sequence of pi) can only be described by listing the number out to n digits because they don't follow any pattern.

Much randomness these days is approximated by using measurements of incredibly complex systems. Noise on a computer chip, taking a random digit from values of space noise, and exact rates of radioactive decay are all sources for these numbers (fundamentally entropy is being measured here).

Often these random numbers are used to "seed" algorithims that configure the randomness into useful inputs.

Because these processes are all still bound by physical laws, they are not truly random, but simply too complex to model. In theory a godlike computer (likely with more complexity than the total universe), could simulate things such as the atomic aberrations in a computer chip, the sum total of all cosmic radiation that makes up space noise, or the subatomic forces that create variability in atomic decay, making these things effectively random for human purposes, but not truly random.
 
I'm not stupid. Anyway - isn't pi said to be random?
Not counting hidden variable stuff, doesn't QM have randomness random enough to be considered true enough to deal with the free will.
 
But as I said - I need to research the topic further. It was almost 20 years ago that I reached that conclusion, and has not reviewed it since.
I can't explain free will in terms of physics or maths or anything, yet I just said that I have reached the view back in days, that actual randomness is required for free will to exist.
I'm not sure could it exist with "non-true" randomness, but I think it's possible as long as we let there exist unpredictable events in the universe.
It does not need to be true randomness in a mathematical and absolute literary sense, as long as it's random enough to be unpredictable.
 
If a parallel machine inputs stuff to the another one, and these machines are not otherwise linked to each other, yet the latter one's output can't be predicted in terms of information intrinsic to the machine, I'm not sure if free will could be established based on this.
Probably not. Surely not now that I thought about it. But I might still need the believe in true objective randomness for my mental health. Now you ruined it. FU.
Give me a true random, or give me at least free will.

Heh. Never knew this quanton randomness bullshit was so common thought. I came up with it without any readings on the subject, just one day thinking it in the school. I mean, the requirement of pure randomness, not the quantum shit I know nothing about.
I
 
Pi is (perhaps) the least random number in the universe, because it actually exists as a physical value... unlike all other numbers.

Thanks @Skorpio. My brain not work good.
 
Well, good point. Nvm. But can you tell me th nth decimal if you knew all the previous, and did not just know because it's pi and you remember first 100k digits?
 
The concept of free will only exists as a subset of the greater reality.

Because "I" also exist as a subset I can imagine the small choices as being made by me when I look from my living viewpoint, this gives me enjoyment in life.

Sometimes when I look at existence from a psychadelically enhanced viewpoint I can see how my freewill really is just a warm feeling in the moment.

This week I met with a lot of long term old friends (covid fears are vanishing and we are moving away). Looking back at our experiences together, some of which were terrifying at the time, we all came to agreement that those most terrifying moments that we would have given the world to change at the time became the foundations of our lives. Today none of us would pass them up for a moment.

One couple, now in their 70's, lived through a family accident that altered the course of their lives. Their daughter nearly died and permanently lost all memory before it happened. She had to be potty trained as a teenager when she came out of her coma. Now she is a mother of 4 and an amazing woman who somehow restarted life at 14. The horrible years of near death bad news became a literal life time of miracles.

As parents they heard
"she's in a coma, we don't expect her to live without life support",
"She is off life support but we don't ever expect her to wake".
"She is awake but there appears to be minimal to no brain functions, she will be a vegetable, we're sorry"
"She is learning some motor functions but she will always need a support worker"
"The noises she is making now will never be proper speech"
"She is amazing but she will never function past an 8 year old"
"...12 year old..."
"... past adolescence..."
"Won't be able to take a job"
"Have a normal life"
"Get married, or ever physically have children".

Because today their professionally employed daughter is also the mother of 4 of their beautiful grandchildren when I ask, if they could live their life without the terrible day, would they?

The answer makes me wonder long and hard at freewill, in nearly everyone's life there is that event that either shakes us or builds us, I think the freewill part is how fast we appreciate it.

This is a drug board, every person here has a reason they came, most were looking for a tiny piece of hope because the dark days leave us pretty hopeless sometimes.

While a piece of me wants to believe my will has played a part in my lifes outcome, I think my will has played a part in accepting how beautiful this tiny view of existence has been and brought some peace to me so I could observe this life much much better.

I think I'm free to enjoy, experience and appreciate but the doing part I may just be watching.
 
darkkoon said:
If a parallel machine inputs stuff to the another one, and these machines are not otherwise linked to each other, yet the latter one's output can't be predicted in terms of information intrinsic to the machine, I'm not sure if free will could be established based on this.
Probably not. Surely not now that I thought about it. But I might still need the believe in true objective randomness for my mental health. Now you ruined it. FU.
Give me a true random, or give me at least free will.

Heh. Never knew this quanton randomness bullshit was so common thought. I came up with it without any readings on the subject, just one day thinking it in the school. I mean, the requirement of pure randomness, not the quantum shit I know nothing about.
I
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Pure randomness is really only important for cryptography. If a number can be achieved by humans, than it cannot be a source of randomnes for making a code as somebody else could feasibly generate it and crack the code.

Using an nth digit of pi is not a good source of this randomness because there is quite a lot of progress made calculating pi to some very absurd levels (and if one is able to calculate it to achieve said digit, it stands that others can as well, even though the sequence of this digits of pi is truly random).

Effective randomness (measurements of extremely complex phenomena) are often good enough because it is unlikely humans will be able to simulate these complex events in the near future.

I personally don't believe in free will. I do think our natural world is theoretically simulatable, but it is effectively impossible to do within the natural world at this time.

We are part of systems complex enough to experience chaos, which is in my oversimplified view the perception of randomness due to a system being a level of complexity that is incomprehendable.

This allows me to live life as if I maintain free will, even if that is a bit of an illusion based on insuffiecient understanding/the lack of enough processing power to fundamentally understand the natural laws from a first principles perspective.
 
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