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Former Athiests, What Changed Your Mind?

swilow said:
I haven't changed my generally sceptical view about the physical reality of a deity or the lack of moral and philosophical validity in any of the thousands of worlds religions, but I do now think there is a value to religion- maybe even a necessity. There is a God-shaped hole in the modern world which I think people need filled or we are left with massive polarisation and failure to find a common path forward- chaos and disorder. That said, filling this hole 'legitimately' seems almost impossible given what we now know about our place in the mighty cosmos, so we are left with what I've heard called a 'hole-shaped God', the new religions of politics and ideology. In many ways, the old beliefs in the Great Sky Daddy may have been better than what has replaced it. Which says something pretty fucking appalling.
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I agree there is a modern moral vacuum, a hole shaped God if you prefer, but religion has been at the heart of so many wars throughout history it has rarely been "a common path" unless one side has been wiped out by the other, leaving only people with a united view, who will find other differences soon enough.
It can be uniting, sure, but united against "them" is how trouble starts.
 
papercuts said:
I agree there is a modern moral vacuum, a hole shaped God if you prefer, but religion has been at the heart of so many wars throughout history it has rarely been "a common path" unless one side has been wiped out by the other, leaving only people with a united view, who will find other differences soon enough.
It can be uniting, sure, but united against "them" is how trouble starts.
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All very true. Although we cannot run the last few thousand years again and check, I wonder how much peace has been a result of a shared belief among an otherwise unrelated and diverse population at each others throats for resources. Definitely religion causes a lot of us vs them (although I would argue that division is a hallmark of humanity) but its also probably one of the few 'effective' ways our species of primate found to expand the "us" side of the coin. If only it wasn't based on nonsense.
 
I was athiest when I was younger. Now I'm an agnostic with inclination towards eastern religion/philosophy.

There wasn't a singular event that made me agnostic, just a slow realization that most people who are athiest are passively or unknowingly nihilists. "I believe in science" isn't an outlook on life, science is not meaning, nor religion. It's a tool.

I believe God exists, yet is something our human brains can't even comprehend or understand. We are certainly not made in his image.
 
swilow said:
All very true. Although we cannot run the last few thousand years again and check, I wonder how much peace has been a result of a shared belief among an otherwise unrelated and diverse population at each others throats for resources. Definitely religion causes a lot of us vs them (although I would argue that division is a hallmark of humanity) but its also probably one of the few 'effective' ways our species of primate found to expand the "us" side of the coin. If only it wasn't based on nonsense.
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I hadn't thought of wars it might have prevented, good point. I grew up in a country consumed by fighting between the two dominant religions, it's tribalism really, nothing to do with what anyone believes. It's true if everyone held the same religion the differences would be difficult to name and it might have been peaceful.
Snafu in the Void said:
I was athiest when I was younger. Now I'm an agnostic with inclination towards eastern religion/philosophy.

There wasn't a singular event that made me agnostic, just a slow realization that most people who are athiest are passively or unknowingly nihilists. "I believe in science" isn't an outlook on life, science is not meaning, nor religion. It's a tool.
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Science isn't a religion, sure, but it can take the place of it as an explanation for the otherwise unknown, making religion slightly redundant except for the way it's human nature to want comfort and favor from a higher power, real or imagined.
 
papercuts said:
Science isn't a religion, sure, but it can take the place of it as an explanation for the otherwise unknown
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Science doesn't prescribe meaning to the creation of the universe. It only attempts to explain how it works.

Science can serve as a substitute for religious explanation of creation, but it can't prove or disprove God.

I think my point is many people who are athiest don't even consider what science can't explain, which is sort of passive nihilism in my eyes. Or, they're actually agnostic, but call themself athiest.

I often think about what created the big bang. How can all this stuff just explode into existence? How can everything come from nothing? It had to be created, from something. It gives me chills thinking about it. Why does anything exist? Blows my mind.
 
Snafu in the Void said:
Science doesn't prescribe meaning to the creation of the universe. It only attempts to explain how it works.

Science can serve as a substitute for religious explanation of creation, but it can't prove or disprove God.

I think my point is many people who are athiest don't even consider what science can't explain, which is sort of passive nihilism in my eyes. Or, they're actually agnostic, but call themself athiest.

I often think about what created the big bang. How can all this stuff just explode into existence? How can everything come from nothing? It had to be created, from something. It gives me chills thinking about it. Why does anything exist? Blows my mind.
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Aye, mind blowing questions indeed. To throw in the typical response, if the universe was created "from something", what created that something? To my mind, an argument from incredulity doesn't exactly bootstrap itself especially well. It often just points to a strange fact which cannot be explained (yet) and piggybacks itself onto that mystery.

Science cannot disprove a creative force, but I imagine that if it was proven, the methods of science would be the key to that. At least, if the alternative epistemological system was religious revelation.

Think about what science can explain, and we've only been at it systematically for a few hundred years. What it cannot yet explain tells us little about what it may (or may not) explain eventually. As far as any system of thought we know about, it does seem to have potentially infinite explanatory power, based at least on our exponential growth in understanding over the brief time weve been using it. But, it does struggle to provide meaning (although I believe it can) and without that, life is always poorer.
 
Very simple digest. God is eternal which means since He cannot be created there was no down the rabbit hole who created this then. Science cannot disprove science. Scripture held on for thousands of years. During the Reformation it just didn't go far enough but how could it. Knowledge is power hence the dark ages. I guess I have a 1 up on all of you. I've seen Him. This is why I'm a slave to Christ. Whatever He asks I must give up. It would mean God writes in the sky with fire. I love you and Names a personal name. You knew He was talking about you. This is what did it. I contacted an STD that could be cleared up. My fuck up was never going back for the bloodtest. So for the first time in a two yr stupor I was actually controlling my own fate. I walk around OKC in a mess. Thinking I gave my ex HIV and the ramifications of it. So I go down to a payphone, call the cops and I assume I gave my ex HIV. You can imagine their reaction. Needless to say I laid myself on the sword cuz I really did love her. Maybe God seeing such a huge compassion He healed me and let it be a lesson taught. I still can't get her outta my head, her face burnt into my memory. I will tell you tho your own folly will catch up to you. I was willing to go thru the thick of it for what was right. For God first and foremost and for her. It's been a ride.
 
I used to be like militant atheist in high school. I still don't believe in a personal God. But I suppose whatever entity preceded or caused the Big Bang could be called God. Maybe the universe itself is God. That's kind of where I'm at but I don't really see the point of labeling it like that.
 
I only have a problem with organized religion when it infringes on the rights of nonbelievers. Or is taught in Science classes. Or is used to justify war. Or when it aids and abets pedophiles...by the hundreds (maybe thousands)...

I guess I have a few problems with religion.

But whatever works for you.
 
AlsoTapered said:
What I love about these threads is that nobody enters them with the slightest intention of another poster's statement altering their own views.
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That seems to be the way of most discourse these days. It's unfortunate, but seems to be an innate functionality of our minds. We disregard counter arguments and overly weight positive ones.

Honestly, I am more than willing to have my views changed. Excited at the prospect, and previously described how my views on religion have evolved over the last few years from animosity to a sort of weary understanding.

I am truly not sure what I would need for me to start believing in God. But I'd like to think I'm open to it. However, if the arguments are similar to stuff posted above, eh- I'm not that easily convinced.
 
swilow said:
That seems to be the way of most discourse these days. It's unfortunate, but seems to be an innate functionality of our minds. We disregard counter arguments and overly weight positive ones.

Honestly, I am more than willing to have my views changed. Excited at the prospect, and previously described how my views on religion have evolved over the last few years from animosity to a sort of weary understanding.

I am truly not sure what I would need for me to start believing in God. But I'd like to think I'm open to it. However, if the arguments are similar to stuff posted above, eh- I'm not that easily convinced.
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Let them.

The poison needs to be excised in some manner.
 
I'm sorry brother. I appreciate you willing to say me yeah it could of happened but I'm not putting my poker chips in just yet. Mind you. I didn't ask for this. I was just some young know it all and my world came crashing down without any warning. For her and me. Losing my marbles yeah bad. Being raped yeah bad being in segregation totally detoxing, yeah bad but losing her really was God's way of saying you wanna play?. I really hope she has the best life possible. I just wished I could be apart of it. As Daniel the Prophet was told seal up the Word till the end and wait for your lot and inheritance. I would minister here and there but to really have her back would be my inheritance. Still if she is w someone that's selfish.
 
sonicwhite said:
Maybe God seeing such a huge compassion He healed me and let it be a lesson taught.
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Are you saying you had HIV and then God healed you of it? If that is the case then maybe he healed your girlfriend too?

I'm not taking the piss, just leaving all possibilities open. Have you asked her about it?
 
Back in the 80´s -90´s in my South Italian hometown you were either a Catholic or a weirdo. Catholicism was part of the landscape, an habit, a tradition, what you were supposed to be, along with liking football, listen to shitty disco music , being violent for no particular reason, dress exactly like your peers etc. I hated all this shit so when I was 12-13 I rejected pretty much everything Catholicism included. But religion(s) and spirituality always interested me, Christ puzzled me, I read the canonic and the gnostic Gospels etc....Seven years later I was 19, last year of high school so we were studying the 19th century philosophers, I was thinking about Feuerbach criticism of Christianity, then BAM, dunno how to explain it but my mind made a 360 turn, I felt something which I can only describe like the complete opposite of angst, it was just clear to me that Jesus Christ was the Son of God ( I was sober btw in case you are wondering) . I went back to the Catholic Church only 6-7 years later when I was already living in the UK and that was a more intellectual thing, Catholic Theology and philosophy (especially Aquinas) made more sense to me, I met some extremely smart and inspiring Catholics and some extremely nasty Orangemen, and here I am 13 years later, a pretty fucked Catholic but Catholic nonetheless.
 
Snafu in the Void said:
I often think about what created the big bang. How can all this stuff just explode into existence? How can everything come from nothing? It had to be created, from something. It gives me chills thinking about it. Why does anything exist? Blows my mind.
Click to expand...
Personally I m a big fan of the Kalam argument ( https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/cosmological-argument/#KalaCosmArgu ) and of Aquinas´ Five Ways ( at least of the first three; differently from the Kalam argument they presuppose a bit of Metaphysics but Ed Feser has a couple of "user friendly" books about the subject. I recommend this one https://www.amazon.com/-/es/Edward-Feser/dp/1851686908
 
7 @skipjames , those profound conversion are more normal then you think. God shook both Heaven and Earth to get my attention.
Finally it took Him taking my ex to win me over. Like you said this feeling cannot be mimic. Yeah they'll just say it was you, as there is a dark force there is a pure force. Trust me on this I know that feeling to this day and long for my departure.
 
skipjames said:
Back in the 80´s -90´s in my South Italian hometown you were either a Catholic or a weirdo. Catholicism was part of the landscape, an habit, a tradition, what you were supposed to be, along with liking football, listen to shitty disco music , being violent for no particular reason, dress exactly like your peers etc. I hated all this shit so when I was 12-13 I rejected pretty much everything Catholicism included. But religion(s) and spirituality always interested me, Christ puzzled me, I read the canonic and the gnostic Gospels etc....Seven years later I was 19, last year of high school so we were studying the 19th century philosophers, I was thinking about Feuerbach criticism of Christianity, then BAM, dunno how to explain it but my mind made a 360 turn, I felt something which I can only describe like the complete opposite of angst, it was just clear to me that Jesus Christ was the Son of God ( I was sober btw in case you are wondering) . I went back to the Catholic Church only 6-7 years later when I was already living in the UK and that was a more intellectual thing, Catholic Theology and philosophy (especially Aquinas) made more sense to me, I met some extremely smart and inspiring Catholics and some extremely nasty Orangemen, and here I am 13 years later, a pretty fucked Catholic but Catholic nonetheless.
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Orangemen claim to be about God and religion, but they are nothing more than hate-filled bastards who glorify warfare and therefore attract those who are attracted to violence. RIP
I've always wondered this; Judas had to betray Jesus as part of God's plan. God could have planned it another way, but he chose Judas to be the bad guy and do the deed. Judas did as he was scripted like an obedient puppy and then hates himself so much for it that he hangs himself.
I find myself puzzled as to why Judas was the real evil bad guy. On the cross Jesus asks God why he's doing it, doesn't ask Judas why he did it, y'know, because he was just doing his bit
Any thoughts?
 
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