First time phenetylamine (2C-D), allergy test and related questions

[Shaal]

Hi everyone,

Beware, incoming novel. Maybe I complicate stuff too much.

I recently acquired some 2C-D. This is going to be my first phenetylamine. I want to try it and share with a few close friends. I got it in the form of 4 green pills. Since it's available online from a vendor that is pretty used, it seems that if something went wrong one day (mislabeled batch for example), it probably would have appeared somewhere. Also I've never seen any negative reports for this product (and I've read all the reports I could find). So I guess it would be reasonable to directly take half a pill. However, I think it's safer to test for allergy, and also for potency first (to ensure it isn't another chem).

I was thinking about crushing all the pills and diluting in mineral source water (just so I know what ions are in there and in what quantities). It would then be easy to dose. I've read in another thread that tap water (because of chlorine) wasn't a problem as with LSD, and that phenetylamines were relatively resistant to degradation. I hope that's really the case.

A few reports on the net state that one pill is 50 mg. I weighted one, and I found approx. 250 mg (either my scale or I have a problem, or these guys did. Lol). Thus, I assume these 50 mg are 50 mg 2C-D. When reading the reports, the effects described when taking a half-pill were pretty consistent with a 25mg experience and those of one total pill were pretty consistent with a 50 mg experience. I know it sucks not knowing more, but I contacted the vendor and they couldn't tell me anything about the product. They just didn't know / didn't make the effort of contacting someone else.

After adding a small amount of powder to approx. 1 mL water and 1 mL vodka, not everything dissolved. The stuff that didn't dissolve were some of the green flakes that I could see after crushing. The pills are green but they have white cristals inside. Since 2C-D seems soluble in alcohol and water, I guess those green flakes are just whatever was used to make for the colour of the pill. Maybe also the matter that holds the pill together. And maybe the white cristals are 2C-D cristals.

What do you guys think? Do you think 2C-D would dissolve but not the rest? So I could just dose with a seringue, not worrying about not getting the green flakes that precipitate? I don't have a scale accurate enough to weight small quantities. It goes down to 0.01 g.

So then if I dissolve everything in 200 mL, I'm going to take 1 mL (approx. 1 mg 2C-D) and dilute it in 10 mL. Then at T+0h I take 0,1 mL (10 ug) (this is for the allergy test). I wait 1 hour and if nothing happens, at T+1h I take 0,9 mL (90 ug). Then: T+2h: 2,5 mL (250 ug). T+3h: 6,5 mL (650 ug).
This should allow to verifiy for allergy and also to cover the range of the very potent psychedelics (such as bromo-dragonfly). If it was present, I would probably feel it one hour after the 2nd or 3rd step. The time laps between each dose should be close enough to allow for the effect plateaux to overlap. This way, I'm not going to "miss" a potent psychedelic.
However, what I'm not covering for is something more potent that 2C-D, but not as potent as bromo-dragonfly, such as 2C-P or 2C-B-Fly. I was wondering if, at his dose of 1 mg, 2C-P threshold would be reached. I have found no information about that. And on the real dosing day, I don't want to be taking 25 mg of 2C-P...
So then i was thinking about dosing 2 mg the next day, or maybe a higher mass (should I wait more than one day?). However, at this dose (2 mg), I could feel the threshold of 2C-E, but also light effects from 2C-P (all info about thresholds is from erowid.), so I wouldn't be able to identify the substance... 25 mg 2C-E seems to be more gentle than 25 mg 2C-P, but that's still definitely not something I wanna try on a first time.

 

[Solipsis]

The 2C-D should dissolve, even if the binders do not. But, only as long as you really crushed the pills into as fine powder as you could. The only way it would not is if it were a matrix like used with the new oxycontins pills. Just mix around the powder stuff in your solution and allow it some time to release all the 2C-D flakes / particles. Optionally push on every small chunk with like the back of a utensil or lab spatula type thing. Really, all of that should be more than enough effort). If you are really concerned you could filter out the undissolved matter with a coffee filter to protect against IDK hot pockets of freebase 5-MeO-DALT or some crap.

I wouldn't personally dissolve all 4 pills in water. For the allergy test and titrations you can just use one pill - the 50 mg that is supposed to be in that should comprise more than enough titration steps: your last step could be 25 mg leaving half, the penultimate step half of that (12.5 mg) etc etc allowing you to start with any supertiny amount and doubling every few hours to allow for long onsets like BrDFly's.
After all that titration the 0.01 g scale should be enough, because if those pills are made up out of 20% 2C-D (250 / 50), every 0.01 g increment powdered pill on your scale is only a 2 mg increment of actual 2C-D. Should be fine to tune in on your eventual real attempts at 2C-D doses.

Tap water does not destroy or affect PEAs like this, no. Minerals in source water should not matter and I don't know what you mean by "knowing the ions".

Vodka is also pointless if you only dissolve 1 pill.

Boy I gotta say that would be incredibly shitty if someone pressed 50 mg BrDFly pills.

 

[Shaal]

Thanks Solipsis!

I meant that the concentrations of various cations and anions (e.g. carbonate, nitrate) are indicated on the bottle.

What worries me the most is doing the allergy test on one pill, and when the real dosing day comes, one of those non-tested pills turns out to be something else than 2C-D... And I'm going to share them. I feel obliged to test them all (I'm also going to give every person who takes it an allergy test. Lol).

 

[Solipsis]

The mineral content is not really that meaningful, especially in this context there is not really anything you can do with it - the minerals won't interact with the drug or something.

I applaud you being cautious but that concern about the pills being different doesn't really make sense to me. I've never heard about different contents of the same presses being mixed up. Though if you still want to take that into account, you can crush up the four pills and continue treating / handling / weighing / dosing it as a drug powder. By mixing up the resulting powder it becomes homogeneous, whatever is in them. It's your call but dissolving everything may not be incredibly practical when it becomes such a messy half-dissolved solution - much shittier to take out a dose and give it to someone IMO compared to using your scale and the powder. Which gives you a lot of control and the ability to put the powder in a capsule or parachute or whatever.
And it presents better than some green liquid suspension to your friends, which may make them a bit more confident. Always a positive psychological affect.

Effectively crushing and mixing up the powder would be the same as putting it in solution. Both result in a homogeneized 'preparation'.

 

[Shaal]

Thanks man. That helps a lot.

Then I'm going to say as you said: dissolve only one pill for the allergy tests and titrations. However maybe I'm going to use a new pill, because I wasted approx. 1,25 mg of 2C-D yesterday for the dissolution test (I eyeballed one half of a crushed pill and eyeballed 1/20th of that half, which should make around 1,25 mg 2C-D). When I pushed the seringue to add liquid to the little bump, the last drop got out under pressure and half of the tiny amount was splashed around. I let it dry on glassware, so I could get it back (what was not splashed), but I don't really think it's worth it.
If I used the rest of this pill powder, that would not be 50 mg of 2C-D but somewhere under that, which would use an unknown amount. Not best for titration. Maybe it would be better to keep that powder for a parachute.

I agree with what you said about sharing a powder instead of a green solution. Very good point.

This vendor also makes LSZ, 25-I-NBOMe, and AL-LAD stamps; as well as 4-ACO-DMT, 2C-E, 4-HO-MET, and 2C-C pills. So I was worried maybe an accident could happen where some other chem finds its way into a 2C-D pill (that happens sometimes in the food industry, right?). Or that maybe a powder batch was mislabeled. However, if any of this had happened even once, this vendor would probably be closed by now.That's why I thought about crushing and homogenizing the 4 pills. However most people probably wouldn't bother doing this.

Also, yesterday when I weighted one pill a few times, the result was pretty variable: I got 0.28g, 0.27g, 0.26g, 0.25g... That could make for a 6 mg 2C-D error, on a full pill measure... (I even wonder if eyeballing would not be more accurate in this case). So maybe keeping the pills in solid form -- and trusting the vendor -- is the safest option. I'd then give me and my friends halp pills that were not tested, but according to you that should not be an issue.

 

[Shaal]

Sorry about the double post. My internet somehow lags big time when I try to edit.I wanted to say: when I received the pills, two of them were in what seems to be the regular package (closed plastic with a cardboard frame), and two were in a regular plastic ziploc. In that ziploc, one of the two pills was broken. I don't know how the hell it ended like that. My letter must have been under kilograms of pressure, or someone stepped on it. There is pressure "trauma" on the plastic. I'm probably too paranoid, but now in my mind, that pill is sketchy. That's the one I used yesterday for the dissolution test (I only finished crushing it with a mortar and pestle). That's the one I'd like to use for the allergy test, but now it's not 50 mg C-D anymore... I guess I'm just going to consider it is 50 mg, and do everything according to that.

 

[Solipsis]

Not sure what you achieved by the dissolution test, either everything dissolves and you are satisfied or not everything dissolves and you can attribute that to binders.

Also by splashed around do you mean you lost that fraction by spilling it? If it is not entirely lost you could have pooled the powder and liquid and add up to a certain mass / volume. But yeah you can also save the rest for a parachute and just consider it as being basically about 50 mg. It shouldn't matter that much if a mg is missing.
If you want to be accurate obviously eyeballing is not consistent with that either but like many other parts of these procedures, it probably won't matter significantly.

Technically, no titration with an inaccurate amount is not ideal or proper practice... but what matters here is significance and how proportionate your error margin is. Titrating with 48 mg is just as effective as titrating with 50 mg, if you actually carefully divide each portion by half (creating recursive fractions, or whatever you wanna call that - half, then half of that half, half of that half of half, etc.). Yes you will be off by about 2% but you will still achieve the same result and nothing bad could happen if you end up estimating the potency of your drug 2% lower than it actually is. No dose-response curve is that steep obviously.

The fact that most people don't bother with any of this - or instead apply only a mini-version of these safety tests, doesn't make your plan a bad plan at all. Whether the rest of people are being smart or whether you are is a matter of perspective and a matter of whether this effort is worth minimizing a risk that is probably relatively low but still a real risk.
Accidents like you mentioned do happen, just not very often. And when it does happen, the chance if it not being reported to you via feedback from the vendor or warnings online is even smaller - a fraction of a fraction. This shouldn't give us a false sense of total security but many people do still feel reasonably safe.
I would never recommend against someone like you doing these safety tests. I do wonder though if you are going to keep this up with any and all batches of drugs you order from vendors. Maybe you would do well to buy reagents and do preliminary tests, and also keep doing titrations and allergy tests but rather than starting at micrograms (which is indeed what people should do with drugs that have never been tried before by any human) at like a milligram or so - then a couple milligrams... that should prevent you from getting killed if there is a misidentified drug - even though it might be a surprise and a scare.
So it just sounds like you are learning to get a hang of this and in the future maybe you get more experience and knowhow not to waste too much time and energy, but still watch an eye on your safety with some tests.

If you get variable results with your scale, maybe it is creeping (does the value gradually change if you just let something sit on the scale and do nothing?). Make sure there is no draft / air current and that you moving around does not pass on resonating vibes via the floor etc. Also weigh on a solid steady surface that is level.
Then use a weighing tray or at least something with a tare mass, scales operate best if you never weigh using actual zero values. Then again that is mostly true for weighing supersmall masses that actually keep you close to zero.
Weigh something a few times and take the average, is probably best. If that still doesn't really work well, you probably got a really sucky scale. Maybe get another one - they are only like 25 bucks for a good one.

A hardly usable scale does not make eyeballing a good idea... you will probably get a similar error margin or worse. If you are really worried err on the low side so that even with deviation the dose is not higher than you are willing to afford.

2C-D is a very forgiving psychedelic, well at least by comparison and judging by potency / dosages. I am not sure what kind of dose you plan on taking anyway (am I to understand half a pill = 25 mg?) but you guys should all be fine.

Like I said: a lot of this is responsible, but truth be told you shouldn't stress immensely about this either. Just get it right, don't fuck up majorly on the math - and it will be cool. I am saying this because if you can't deal with the dynamic nature of life... then that is much more likely to cause a freakout than +/- 6 mg of 2C-D.
I'm not trying to say you should take unnecessary risks, but on the other hand you cannot avoid every and all error margins and risk of danger in life - that's just no way of living and the stress is actually probably going to cut your lifespan by a number of years. : P

 

[spacejunk]

I find the idea of vendor-pressed RC tabs/pills quite dubious.
I'm not sure if this is fair or not, as I don't ever send anything away for lab testing, and take the purity/substance etc at face value (save for safeguards such as weighing doses and taking cautious 'allergy tests' and whatnot) and in doing so put a certain amount of trust in assuming that a substance is what it is presented as being - and at the purity level claimed.

But buying chems with pre-measured dosages pressed into pills/pellets/tabs etc etc just seems like an extra level of trust that could potentially cause problems.
This is certainly not a criticism of the OP or their HR methods in ensuring maximum safety with said psychedelic phenethylamine...however I'm just to wary to ever go down the path of buying RC pills ever again (after a bad experience with god-knows-what from a market stall about 8 years ago).

When there is a big market for "pure" chemicals, the pressed versions seem so much more difficult to measure (weight and therefore dose; is each pill equally mixed with actives/fillers/binders etc?)
Seems like a big ask for a 'semi legal' outfit to achieve - the risk of some pills - or half pills or however the end user ends up taking them - being stronger than others seems like a real risk - and with some of these substances - a real danger.

Agree that 2c-d is among the more forgiving of the RC psychedelics...but am I the only one that gives the purveyors of pre-dosed, packaged research chems a wide berth?
I feel that if you are going to take the plunge with these "novel psychoactives", buying things pre-dosed is actually increasing the potential for harm, rather than being a safer option (assuming one has procured the absolutely necessary items such as a set of milligram scales, having done enough research as not to be a danger to themselves).

I'm not sure if I'm going off-topic by mentioning this. I wonder what others thoughts are?
The idea for me of buying - say a 2c-x or 4-sub tryptamine in pill or pellet form is offputting - but maybe contradictory, as other illicit psychs (LSD for example) are pre-dosed as a rule.
Perhaps it is just what one is used to?
The line is so blurred with the proliferation of RCs into the "traditional" drug market anyway...but the only way I would ever feel comfortable taking - say - 2c-e or 2c-I is in powder/crystalline form that I weighed out myself (or at least watched as someone else did the same.
Am I just a creature of habit with this?

 

[Shaal]

Thanks Solipsis, I really appreciate the time you take to answer my questions (edit: and thanks Spacejunk too )

So I've got two ways of doing:

1) I crush and mix everything, weight it all. It take one fourth of this mass (which should be the equivalent of one pill, approx. 250 mg, which should represent 50 mg of 2C-D). I dissolve this and do the tests. The issue here will be the inaccuracy of the scale (for future dosing for preparation of parachutes), but a few mg of 2C-D error shouldn't be that big of an issue. However, I get rid of the risk of having an unexpected chem in one pill.

2) I take my approx. 48-50 mg of already powdered pill, dissolve it and do the tests. I keep the rest of the pills in solid form for comsuption. This way I get rid of inaccurate measurements, but I take the risk of having an unexpected chem in one pill. Or one pill being more potent, as Spacejunk said.

It's just a choice of which risk is the highest.

You're so right about stress and life. I stress too much.

 

[spacejunk]

^^ yeah, sorry - don't mean to freak you out, but there's this thing I have about "trusting" vendors (ie I don't).

 

[Solipsis]

Agreed, best not to buy pills of this anymore - or any 2C-X or tryptamine... for some other RCs like etizolam it's different and it actually appears like pills are the standard (same color and dose generally) and powder is the bad choice or generally ripoff or maybe questionable.

About option 2) ... how are you planning on measuring the solution in a way that is accurate as opposed to the diminished accuracy you say the scale has?
I guess 1) just sounds fine. Starting to get a bit tedious

 

[Shaal]

I initally bought these pills partly because I don't have an accurate enough scale... And now I'm gonna end up weighting them... lol.

About option 2) I would just dissolve in a known amount of water, and dose with a syringue.

It is indeed getting tedious, and I've already spent a lot of time on this issue... But that's me. I complicate stuff too much

I'm then going for option 1).

Solipsis, about the scale and splashing thing, I will reply later, now is not the best moment for me. I'm going to do the weighting tonight (CET)

Thanks for your help guys! Really appreciated!

 

[spacejunk]

^ i don't think you can really be "too careful" - whatever steps you take to ensure minimal chance of unnecessary risks are a good thing in my opinion.
Happy tripping! I am not a huge fan of psychedelic phens in general, but 2c-d is certainly one of my favourites.
Now that you've taken every precaution, you can rest easy and enjoy your trip!

 

[Si Dread]

I'm quite surprised to be reading about 2c-d pills at all, I thought this was some sorta error & the topic was in fact 2c-b pills, which are of course considrably more common.

Best to play it safe, but I think you can assume each tab is properly dosed unless you have actual cause to distrust the vendor ie there are some public concerns about them.

 

[spacejunk]

^ there's different levels of "trust"...but yeah, I get what you're saying.

 

[Si Dread]

Basically, you put your trust in whomever you acquire compounds from, regardless whether it's the internet, corner shop or your pub dealer. I feel greater trust is required of vendors perpared to dose & press their own tabs & I personally avoid any drug I haven't measured & tested personally. If it's in tablet form & has come from anywhere other than a known, Pharmacuetical company, I won't take it.

I'm not sure I'd even take a Ecstacy tablet any more, now that PMA & dozens of different RC's are happily masquerading as MDMA...

 

[Shaal]

A lot of people buy from this vendor, and I've never heard anything bad about the quality of their products (only about how high their prices are). Even if their product seems safe, I'm still gonna crush and homogenize everything. This way, no bad surprise.

 

[Solipsis]

The talk about pills does remind me of the fact that I think pre-mixed drug combo's are a really shitty idea, I despise that.

 

[Si Dread]

So do I. I feel the RC scene differs from the "Legal Highs" scene here in the UK, seperating purely recreational users from serious psychonauts by insisting that compounds be sold in powder form & then weighed & dosed by the purchaser. When I see RC's being tabbed up & sold for individual dosing I feel it draws us closer to the Legal High market with all the awkward connotations that brings.

 

[Shaal]

Also, how long should I wait after a meal to start testing? 2 hours?