finding the right antidepressant need help

[richards2324]

I believe my anxiety and depression are caused from low dopamine do to experiences I’ve had with two dopaminergic drugs (I had positive effects from wellbutrin and mucuna pruriens a Chinese bean with L-dopa in it) as I think a lot of other cases are too and that SSRI’s are overly prescribed medications that a lot of people don’t respond to. Dopamine increase motivation and reward and norepinephrine the byproduct of dopamine increases focus and concentration which all depressed people lack. There are virtually no DRI’s other than research chemicals which I don’t understand their rarity(haven’t researched that a lot). I’m finding it extremely hard to find a safe longterm antidepressant that boosts dopamine, especially ones that are on the market.

( something like this)

Does anyone know what I could try if I was trying to boost my dopamine? Or does anyone know of any NDRI’s that have a stronger affinity for dopamine that would be effective and with a good half life(not Ritalin and the such either) or lastly, just normal NDRI’s(don’t want these because they have a tendency to increase anxiety long-term, I’ve tried Wellbutrin it didn’t work)? I’d prefer ones that are on the market but if someone can find ones off the market that are safe that’d be useful too.Is Amineptine(tricyclic, possible liver damage) a good NDRI? It prefers dopamine over norepinephrine. It has a short half life which could make it more addictive and less suitable for a longterm antidepressant. It’s hard to obtain and the source I have I wouldn’t know the purity of it as I can’t test it although it looks promising as an antidepressant.

I’m currently set on serzone ( an SNDRI and serotonin antagonist, possible liver damage 1 in 250,000 according to wiki don’t if that is correct), and the MAOI’s Parnate (works more on MAOI B then A), Nardil(works equally on MAOI A and B), selegiline(MAOI B). Also, dopamine agonists although I don’t know if they would be effective antidepressants. Overall, MAOI’s have the most drugs that boost dopamine, that are FDA prescribed, equally among the other neurotransmitters instead of norepinephrine more and such. The fact that even if they are MAOI type A they still boost dopamine equally, is how I take it, to the other monoamines (tyramine, serotonin, norepinephrine). There just aren’t a lot of NDRI’s, DRI’s, and triple reuptake inhibitors.

I don’t mean to get sentimental on this but my life kind of depends on this as I am running out of dopamine and after that, well death. I feel like I’m being suffocated slowly. If this continues I’ll be continue to the point of complete exhaustion which is where I was before I took an antipsychotic which is now not working because in order for it to work there has to be dopamine for it to block and whatever else it does to neurochemistry after that. No one probably believes that one could run out of dopamine and die so I don’t expect anyone to believe it. I’ll leave it at that. Thanks.

List of MAOI’s: http://mentalhealthdaily.com/2014/08/19/maoi-list-monoamine-oxidase-inhibitors/

List of some NDRI’s: http://mentalhealthdaily.com/2014/12/24/norepinephrine-dopamine-reuptake-inhibitors-ndris-list/

-Focalin-This drug consists of the D-stereoisomer of methylphenidate (Ritalin) and was developed by the company Novartis as an ADHD medication. It functions by preventing reuptake of norepinephrine and dopamine and elicits a stimulant effect on the CNS. It is known to be well-tolerated and effective when used for attentional deficits and has also been considered as an adjunct strategy for treating certain cases of depression.
-Ethylphenidate –not sure if this is safe, read a lot about how it disagrees with the body, looking for a safe longterm antidepressant
This is a drug that functions as a psychostimulant and is considered relatively similar to methylphenidate (Ritalin) in its effects. It functions as a norepinephrine-dopamine reuptake inhibitor, with a stronger affinity for dopamine.
Nomifensine looks safe except for the risk of haemolytic anaemia to which the FDA withdrew approval for nomifensine on March 20, 1992 although it doesn’t prefer dopamine over norepinephrine

List of NDRIs according to wiki

The section only lists compounds that are selective for NET and DAT relative to the serotonin transporter (SERT). For a list of compounds that inhibit reuptake at all three transporters, see serotonin-norepinephrine-dopamine reuptake inhibitor.
Many NDRIs exist, including the following:
· Amineptine (Survector, Maneon, Directim)
· Bupropion (Wellbutrin)^[2]
· Desoxypipradrol (2-DPMP)
· Dexmethylphenidate (Focalin)
· Difemetorex (Cleofil)
· Diphenylprolinol (D2PM)
· Ethylphenidate
· Fencamfamine (Glucoenergan, Reactivan)
· Fencamine (Altimina, Sicoclor)
· Lefetamine (Santenol)
· Methylenedioxypyrovalerone(MDPV)
· Methylphenidate (Ritalin, Concerta, Metadate, Methylin, Rubifen, Stimdate)
· Nomifensine (Merital)
· O-2172
· Oxolinic acid
· Pipradrol (Meretran)
· Prolintane (Promotil, Katovit)—experience- http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/71489-prolintane-hcl/
· Pyrovalerone (Centroton, Thymergix)
· Tametraline (CP-24,411)
· WY-46824

 

[Keif' Richards]

I'm sorry no one has anything constructive to add to your post so far, but the truth is, I think you have probably done more research and attained more knowledge in the process than the average "lay person" here on bluelight. You seem to have a pretty impressive knowledge of what drugs you think might work for you, but you won't like my advice.

I think you should bring this research to a psychiatrist and state your case regarding what you think you need and see if there is something that they can recommend. I agree with you that SSRI's are handed out as if they are a miracle medicine that will work for virtually all mental illness, when in reality their effectiveness is pretty spotty. Don't be afraid to switch psychiatrists if the one you are working with is not leading you in the direction you want to go.

Good luck and hopefully you find a better answer to your question.

 

[richards2324]

I have a court order for forced medication which confines me to 1 psychiatrist where I was sent after I got out of the mental hospital. I have tried the big psychiatric institutions they won't see me since I have been sent to this other place and every private psychiatrist I've talked to won't give second opinions. My current psychiatrist doesn't believe me that I know that it's dopamine although I recently gave him a list of medications I was wanting to try so hopefully he takes it into consideration. The MAOI's i stated and Serzone boost serotonin also though so I really almost want to stay away from them too. I had a terrible withdrawal experience from Paxil an SSRI that I never want to have happen again. Serotonin just plain scares me too mess with if I don't have to and it's not necessary. I'm just exhausted from researching all of this and someone might have better insight then me.

 

[richards2324]

I just started modafinil as it's supposed to be a weak dopamine reuptake inhibitor but don't seem to be getting any results after 3 tabs(2 last night and one this morning).

 

[Johndoedoe.junk]

My experience with ADs is it's mostly hit and miss. The majority I've tried (mostly SSRIs) are either ineffective or give me bad side effects such as increased anxiety, headache, worsened depression, etc. That fact of the matter is we don't know everything about the human brain and in my opinion psych med prescribing involves a lot of guess work on the docs part. Try this for a couple months, see if it helps if not then we'll try this or add this etc.

For me suffering from multiple mental conditions it's been quite frustrating/disheartening trying to find something that works halfway decent. Sounds like you've done a lot of homework and are being very proactive in seeking the right solution which is great! Good luck to you, I hope you can find something that works well for ya. Mental illness really sucks but with the right meds combined with therapy and coping skills a lot of people seem to do well. Good luck again in fighting your problem(s)!

 

[Formidable]

what makes you think your dopamine levels are the problem?

i'm extremely interested in this btw

 

[Jackplays]

I am very depressed with low dopamine levels as well, which is a possible cause for depression. I have found that ssri's for me have all made me very anxious and even more depressed, except for celexa. For me, celexa has worked very well. And to formidable, for me, I know that low levels of dopamine, as well as depression, are passed down thru my family on both sides (low dopamine also makes you extremely prone to addiction)

 

[Formidable]

the reason i was asking is because dopamine replenishes itself very quickly in the brain and literally all it takes is a nice compliment from someone to acquire a dopamine boost.

as others have said you seem very versed on this subject and more than likely whatever advice you're given here you've already thought of. but after a little gandering my first suggestion would be to try to increase your dopamine levels naturally. i know this may seem like a big task, but you'd be surprised how easy a dopamine boost can be acheived. hell, eating your favorite foods releases a significant amount of dopamine in your brain. ask for help from friends or family to get you started.

if you honestly just can't find the motivation to do it naturally, i'd try a dopamine agonist like mirapex or requip. these require less time to start working than NDRIs.

if that fails then you can try an NDRI with preferably equal parts reuptake of norepinephrine and dopamine.

and if all of that fails try a CNS stimulant like adderall or vyvanse. if you truly do have a dopamine deficiency either one of these will correct it, if only temporarily. i know that you probably welcome anything at this point so that's why i recommended an amp, at least it's something.

and for the sake of comedy if everything else fails, a little coke never fails to give a nice temporary boost. don't knock it til you try it

and for the love of god stay away from MAOIs, the number of contraindications are ridiculous.

good luck

 

[Ozle]

How are you sure that it's a dopamine deficiency? On a similar note, how are sure that your antipsychotic was effective only through blocking dopamine? Haven't you thought that perhaps it just pooped out, or just wasn't the one best suited to you? To give you some perspective on this, clozapine, generally considered the strongest antipsychotic currently known, has relatively little effect on D2 receptors. Dopamine is associated in a way with motivation and reward (technically it's more associated with the desire for reward). However, it's also associated with obsessions, compulsive thoughts/behavior, thought disorders, and a sort of delusional anxiety. Norepinephrine is (at least for me) mainly associated with increased anxiety in general. What is your diagnosis, why do you have a court order, and what are you currently on? In my experience, Ritalin is a terrible drug for depression, you basically oscillate between severe anxiety and anergic dysphoria. Amineptine is as far as I know a relatively weak opioid with weak NDRI properties and a half-life of roughly 1 hour. I don't really see how it would benefit you much, especially in the long term - if you do get good results from it, perhaps consider looking into longer-lasting opioids, since they're likely to give you a similar but longer lasting effect.

 

[Johndoedoe.junk]

Amineptine is as far as I know a relatively weak opioid with weak NDRI properties and a half-life of roughly 1 hour. I don't really see how it would benefit you much, especially in the long term - if you do get good results from it, perhaps consider looking into longer-lasting opioids, since they're likely to give you a similar but longer lasting effect.

That's one e I didn't mention in my post. Opioids which I happen to take for chronic pain are one hell of an effective antidepressant/antianxiety med at least for me. Along with the analgesia they completely remove my depression and anxiety although not so much the OCD. Problem is no psychiatrist in their right mind is gonna prescribe a patient opioids for mental health issues. I'm sure the DEA would put the kybosh on that real quick. Too bad too cause they do work, at least for me but I could also see the potential for problems in using soley for mental health reasons.

 

[richards2324]

what makes you think your dopamine levels are the problem?

i'm extremely interested in this btw

I'm going of these 2 experiences formidable-I’ve had with two dopaminergic drugs (I had positive effects from wellbutrin and mucuna pruriens a Chinese bean with L-dopa in it) and the fact of i have no motivation, no pleasure from anything

 

[richards2324]

I am very depressed with low dopamine levels as well, which is a possible cause for depression. I have found that ssri's for me have all made me very anxious and even more depressed, except for celexa. For me, celexa has worked very well. And to formidable, for me, I know that low levels of dopamine, as well as depression, are passed down thru my family on both sides (low dopamine also makes you extremely prone to addiction)

"I know that low levels of dopamine, as well as depression, are passed down thru my family on both sides"

in my opinion each successive generation from everyone living on this earth have less dopamine than their ancestors

 

[richards2324]

the reason i was asking is because dopamine replenishes itself very quickly in the brain and literally all it takes is a nice compliment from someone to acquire a dopamine boost.

as others have said you seem very versed on this subject and more than likely whatever advice you're given here you've already thought of. but after a little gandering my first suggestion would be to try to increase your dopamine levels naturally. i know this may seem like a big task, but you'd be surprised how easy a dopamine boost can be acheived. hell, eating your favorite foods releases a significant amount of dopamine in your brain. ask for help from friends or family to get you started.

if you honestly just can't find the motivation to do it naturally, i'd try a dopamine agonist like mirapex or requip. these require less time to start working than NDRIs.

if that fails then you can try an NDRI with preferably equal parts reuptake of norepinephrine and dopamine.

and if all of that fails try a CNS stimulant like adderall or vyvanse. if you truly do have a dopamine deficiency either one of these will correct it, if only temporarily. i know that you probably welcome anything at this point so that's why i recommended an amp, at least it's something.

and for the sake of comedy if everything else fails, a little coke never fails to give a nice temporary boost. don't knock it til you try it

and for the love of god stay away from MAOIs, the number of contraindications are ridiculous.

good luck

I'm trying to stay away from MAOI's as long as possible. I've considered adderall and ritalin but i'd get extreme anxiety form them cause i have really bad anxiety the way it is.

"if you honestly just can't find the motivation to do it naturally, i'd try a dopamine agonist like mirapex or requip. these require less time to start working than NDRIs.

if that fails then you can try an NDRI with preferably equal parts reuptake of norepinephrine and dopamine."

can mirapex cause PD symptoms if you take it longterm? do you have any suggestions of ndri's with equal parts norepinephrine and dopamine?

I've considered coke to bad that's only a shorterm fix ha

 

[richards2324]

How are you sure that it's a dopamine deficiency? On a similar note, how are sure that your antipsychotic was effective only through blocking dopamine? Haven't you thought that perhaps it just pooped out, or just wasn't the one best suited to you? To give you some perspective on this, clozapine, generally considered the strongest antipsychotic currently known, has relatively little effect on D2 receptors. Dopamine is associated in a way with motivation and reward (technically it's more associated with the desire for reward). However, it's also associated with obsessions, compulsive thoughts/behavior, thought disorders, and a sort of delusional anxiety. Norepinephrine is (at least for me) mainly associated with increased anxiety in general. What is your diagnosis, why do you have a court order, and what are you currently on? In my experience, Ritalin is a terrible drug for depression, you basically oscillate between severe anxiety and anergic dysphoria. Amineptine is as far as I know a relatively weak opioid with weak NDRI properties and a half-life of roughly 1 hour. I don't really see how it would benefit you much, especially in the long term - if you do get good results from it, perhaps consider looking into longer-lasting opioids, since they're likely to give you a similar but longer lasting effect.

“How are you sure that it's a dopamine deficiency?”

I’ve had with two dopaminergic drugs (I had positive effects from wellbutrin and mucuna pruriens a Chinese bean with L-dopa in it)

I would try a different antipsychotic but for the fact that it wasn’t working then all the sudden I take mucuna pruriens and it starts working for 10 days before the mucuna randomly stops working too makes me thinking It won’t work without a rise in dopamine levels. My diagnosis is schizoaffective although I think I just have extremely bad anxiety and now depression this last 4 years. I have a court order because I was an endangerment to myself or others somehow. The day I got sent in I was recklessly driving around town in got called in as far as I know then I passed an undercover cop on the way home speeding and she stopped at my house calling for backup and had me sent in. Earlier that day the psychiatrist wrote a hold on me that I didn’t know until I got arrested. She wanted me to get accessed and I walked out.
How do you know amineptine is a weak opioid with weak NDRI properties from my understanding it’s a very strong DRI with a little norepineprhine action. Sources? Being that it has a short half life I’d get really addicted to it right and wouldn’t be able to make it to the next day without redosing?

 

[richards2324]

That's one e I didn't mention in my post. Opioids which I happen to take for chronic pain are one hell of an effective antidepressant/antianxiety med at least for me. Along with the analgesia they completely remove my depression and anxiety although not so much the OCD. Problem is no psychiatrist in their right mind is gonna prescribe a patient opioids for mental health issues. I'm sure the DEA would put the kybosh on that real quick. Too bad too cause they do work, at least for me but I could also see the potential for problems in using soley for mental health reasons.

How do opiods reduce anxiety and depression? This seems like a shorterm fix. If it's a dopamine deficiency I don't see how this is going to help or even if other neurotransmitters that are involved.

 

[Johndoedoe.junk]

I can't tell you the neuroscience behind it, I just no that for me they have that effect, the ones I speak of are hydrocodone and oxycodone. Opioids in general seem to provide a sense of well being which is likely why they have that effect for me. Now as far as them fixing the source of the depression whether lack of dopamine or whatever I highly doubt they do, just kinda like a band aid that masks the symptoms so probably not a viable option if you really want to get to the source of the issue and correct it.

Have you considered or heard of tianeptine? It's not an rx med in the states but is an antidepressant from what I understand in some countries under the brand name Stablon. I believe it's a tricyclic that also has opioid properties and interacts with some of the same receptors traditional opioids do. HOWEVER I have heard some pretty bad reports on discontinuation i.e. withdrawals and I think the duration of action is rather short, so maybe not the best choice either. It is available legally in the states as an RC but I believe it's a bit pricey and comes in powder form which doesn't tend to age well unless kept in a delicate environment and accurate dosing can be problematic due to it being a powder. I know there are some threads about it on BL so you may want to check them out if even just for education sake.

 

[richards2324]

I can't tell you the neuroscience behind it, I just no that for me they have that effect, the ones I speak of are hydrocodone and oxycodone. Opioids in general seem to provide a sense of well being which is likely why they have that effect for me. Now as far as them fixing the source of the depression whether lack of dopamine or whatever I highly doubt they do, just kinda like a band aid that masks the symptoms so probably not a viable option if you really want to get to the source of the issue and correct it.

Have you considered or heard of tianeptine? It's not an rx med in the states but is an antidepressant from what I understand in some countries under the brand name Stablon. I believe it's a tricyclic that also has opioid properties and interacts with some of the same receptors traditional opioids do. HOWEVER I have heard some pretty bad reports on discontinuation i.e. withdrawals and I think the duration of action is rather short, so maybe not the best choice either. It is available legally in the states as an RC but I believe it's a bit pricey and comes in powder form which doesn't tend to age well unless kept in a delicate environment and accurate dosing can be problematic due to it being a powder. I know there are some threads about it on BL so you may want to check them out if even just for education sake.

I tried tianeptine for a day and didn't like the way it made me feel I hate that serotonin feel. I had a really bad experience with Paxil withdrawal and SSRI so i steer away from anything with serotonin as it didn't change anything the year I took it. Tianeptine wasn't too pricey but it did get ruined I didn't store it right your right about that even stored in a Ziploc bag.

 

[Ozle]

I'm going of these 2 experiences formidable-I’ve had with two dopaminergic drugs (I had positive effects from wellbutrin and mucuna pruriens a Chinese bean with L-dopa in it) and the fact of i have no motivation, no pleasure from anything

Eh...? You said in your original post that Wellbutrin, I quote, "didn't work".

Having no motivation or pleasure can be down to all sorts of things. Depression is certainly a major one, but IMHO depression isn't actually a single definable disorder, caused by the lack of one specific neurotransmitter, it's a symptom or manifestation of a number of potential underlying problems (similarly to how feeling a pain in your arm can be due to a sprain, or a fracture, or a burn, etc). The type of dysphoric/anhedonic state seen in bipolar and some types of schizophrenia, for example, appears to be quite different to the "classical" dysphoric states seen in so-called typical MDD, and responds very differently to antidepressants. They've even invented a makeshift category they call "atypical depression" to describe depressive states that don't conform to the "norm" of depression (in many cases these are similar to the depressive symptoms of bipolar, in others they fit closely with personality disorders) - hopefully sometime soon it'll be extrapolated from this and accepted that there is no norm when it comes to depression and its causes, anymore than for physical pain.

Lack of motivation and pleasure can also be caused be overwhelming anxiety that makes it impossible to enjoy or anticipate anything in a positive way, or in severe cases even to "live in the moment" (which can manifest as pervasive ruminations, or certain forms of dissociation).

It can also be due to psychosis, although again this feels like a "kitchen sink" explanation, since I doubt that psychosis-induced anhedonia, or even psychosis itself, have a unique cause or internal neurological mechanism.

You're diagnosed schizo-affective, which as far as I understand is another term for bipolar 1 with psychotic features. Reckless driving is a very common symptom of all bipolar-like disorders and, regardless of how you feel about it, definitely counts as endangering yourself and others. Do you have any further details of how this diagnosis was decided upon? Do you have any history of psychological trauma, during childhood, adolescence, or otherwise?

How do you know amineptine is a weak opioid with weak NDRI properties from my understanding it’s a very strong DRI with a little norepineprhine action. Sources? Being that it has a short half life I’d get really addicted to it right and wouldn’t be able to make it to the next day without redosing?

Amineptine is a much weaker DRI than, for example, Ritalin. I read a few articles which listed its binding affinity, though I can't find them right now, but it's essentially just slightly higher than modafinil. It's in the same molecular class as tianeptine, a relatively weak opioid which has gained popularity over the past couple of years, the main difference I believe being that tianeptine has a stronger agonistic effect at u-opioid receptors and much lower DRI activity (it is however NOT an SRI - from what I know has no affinity for SERT at all - and it should not give you any any hint of the "SSRI-type" feeling you describe at all). These two compounds are to my knowledge currently the only properly (or at all for that matter) studied members of what appears to be a somewhat obscure class of opioids.

I just started modafinil as it's supposed to be a weak dopamine reuptake inhibitor but don't seem to be getting any results after 3 tabs(2 last night and one this morning).

Modafinil is a stimulant. If your problem isn't something that would really benefit from a stimulant (and it doesn't appear to be, seeing as you're seemingly able to write long, detailed posts without an issue), it's probably not an avenue worth pursuing, at least not as a first step. It's not just a DRI either, it has stimulating effects on a large number of neurotransmitter systems, some of which we still don't understand.

You said that Ritalin and Adderall give you severe anxiety. I can sympathise with you there, I have the same problem. You're best off realising however, that if you react badly to those, pretty much any strong DRI/NDRI/DRA/NDRA is going to give you the same problems. I've been in your shoes, having hated the horrible anxiogenic effects Ritalin had had on me, and tried EPH (which is much more selective for DAT than MPH is); I hated its effects just as much, and for the most part couldn't even tell the difference. Uppers are probably just not your thing - how do you react to downers (e.g. alcohol, benzos, and opiates)? For me, they have a far more positive effect on my mood and anxiety levels, and (I suspect mainly because of that) also help me be more productive in general.

Unless you're unfortunate enough to have both schizoaffective disorder and ADHD, you shouldn't really be thinking about stimulants for now. While they definitely improve mood and motivation in people with ADHD and even in controls, they usually have very negative effects on those with bipolar, psychotic disorders, and some personality and dissociative disorders. Modafinil is somewhat of an exception, but it still won't help solve your underlying problem, and may not even help you much at all depending on what's causing your lack of energy/motivation. If you still have issues with energy and drive after you've resolved your other symptoms, reconsider it then (it'll also likely be far more effective in that situation). Solve one problem at a time.

 

[richards2324]

Eh...? You said in your original post that Wellbutrin, I quote, "didn't work".

Having no motivation or pleasure can be down to all sorts of things. Depression is certainly a major one, but IMHO depression isn't actually a single definable disorder, caused by the lack of one specific neurotransmitter, it's a symptom or manifestation of a number of potential underlying problems (similarly to how feeling a pain in your arm can be due to a sprain, or a fracture, or a burn, etc). The type of dysphoric/anhedonic state seen in bipolar and some types of schizophrenia, for example, appears to be quite different to the "classical" dysphoric states seen in so-called typical MDD, and responds very differently to antidepressants. They've even invented a makeshift category they call "atypical depression" to describe depressive states that don't conform to the "norm" of depression (in many cases these are similar to the depressive symptoms of bipolar, in others they fit closely with personality disorders) - hopefully sometime soon it'll be extrapolated from this and accepted that there is no norm when it comes to depression and its causes, anymore than for physical pain.

Lack of motivation and pleasure can also be caused be overwhelming anxiety that makes it impossible to enjoy or anticipate anything in a positive way, or in severe cases even to "live in the moment" (which can manifest as pervasive ruminations, or certain forms of dissociation).

It can also be due to psychosis, although again this feels like a "kitchen sink" explanation, since I doubt that psychosis-induced anhedonia, or even psychosis itself, have a unique cause or internal neurological mechanism.

You're diagnosed schizo-affective, which as far as I understand is another term for bipolar 1 with psychotic features. Reckless driving is a very common symptom of all bipolar-like disorders and, regardless of how you feel about it, definitely counts as endangering yourself and others. Do you have any further details of how this diagnosis was decided upon? Do you have any history of psychological trauma, during childhood, adolescence, or otherwise?



Amineptine is a much weaker DRI than, for example, Ritalin. I read a few articles which listed its binding affinity, though I can't find them right now, but it's essentially just slightly higher than modafinil. It's in the same molecular class as tianeptine, a relatively weak opioid which has gained popularity over the past couple of years, the main difference I believe being that tianeptine has a stronger agonistic effect at u-opioid receptors and much lower DRI activity (it is however NOT an SRI - from what I know has no affinity for SERT at all - and it should not give you any any hint of the "SSRI-type" feeling you describe at all). These two compounds are to my knowledge currently the only properly (or at all for that matter) studied members of what appears to be a somewhat obscure class of opioids.



Modafinil is a stimulant. If your problem isn't something that would really benefit from a stimulant (and it doesn't appear to be, seeing as you're seemingly able to write long, detailed posts without an issue), it's probably not an avenue worth pursuing, at least not as a first step. It's not just a DRI either, it has stimulating effects on a large number of neurotransmitter systems, some of which we still don't understand.

You said that Ritalin and Adderall give you severe anxiety. I can sympathise with you there, I have the same problem. You're best off realising however, that if you react badly to those, pretty much any strong DRI/NDRI/DRA/NDRA is going to give you the same problems. I've been in your shoes, having hated the horrible anxiogenic effects Ritalin had had on me, and tried EPH (which is much more selective for DAT than MPH is); I hated its effects just as much, and for the most part couldn't even tell the difference. Uppers are probably just not your thing - how do you react to downers (e.g. alcohol, benzos, and opiates)? For me, they have a far more positive effect on my mood and anxiety levels, and (I suspect mainly because of that) also help me be more productive in general.

Unless you're unfortunate enough to have both schizoaffective disorder and ADHD, you shouldn't really be thinking about stimulants for now. While they definitely improve mood and motivation in people with ADHD and even in controls, they usually have very negative effects on those with bipolar, psychotic disorders, and some personality and dissociative disorders. Modafinil is somewhat of an exception, but it still won't help solve your underlying problem, and may not even help you much at all depending on what's causing your lack of energy/motivation. If you still have issues with energy and drive after you've resolved your other symptoms, reconsider it then (it'll also likely be far more effective in that situation). Solve one problem at a time.

Eh...? You said in your original post that Wellbutrin, I quote, "didn't work".

The first time I took Wellbutrin it did I took it for one day I got re-prescribed it again from my current psychiatrist and it didn’t work for some reason I took it for a month this time.

Lack of motivation and pleasure can also be caused be overwhelming anxiety that makes it impossible to enjoy or anticipate anything in a positive way, or in severe cases even to "live in the moment" (which can manifest as pervasive ruminations, or certain forms of dissociation).

This sounds a lot like me.

You're diagnosed schizo-affective, which as far as I understand is another term for bipolar 1 with psychotic features. Reckless driving is a very common symptom of all bipolar-like disorders and, regardless of how you feel about it, definitely counts as endangering yourself and others. Do you have any further details of how this diagnosis was decided upon? Do you have any history of psychological trauma, during childhood, adolescence, or otherwise?

I was diagnosed with it like 4 years ago from my psychologist I don’t really remember how I just know he printed off a bunch of things he thought I had-social anxiety disorder, generalized anxiety disorder, major depressive, and others along with schizoaffective but it didn’t get firmly established by the psychiatric community until I got sent to the mental health hospital after that incident of driving recklessly. In my opinion I’m not psychotic but in a very dissociated out of it state due to what I think of as lack of dopamine.

Modafinil is a stimulant. If your problem isn't something that would really benefit from a stimulant (and it doesn't appear to be, seeing as you're seemingly able to write long, detailed posts without an issue), it's probably not an avenue worth pursuing, at least not as a first step. It's not just a DRI either, it has stimulating effects on a large number of neurotransmitter systems, some of which we still don't understand.

You said that Ritalin and Adderall give you severe anxiety. I can sympathise with you there, I have the same problem. You're best off realising however, that if you react badly to those, pretty much any strong DRI/NDRI/DRA/NDRA is going to give you the same problems. I've been in your shoes, having hated the horrible anxiogenic effects Ritalin had had on me, and tried EPH (which is much more selective for DAT than MPH is); I hated its effects just as much, and for the most part couldn't even tell the difference. Uppers are probably just not your thing - how do you react to downers (e.g. alcohol, benzos, and opiates)? For me, they have a far more positive effect on my mood and anxiety levels, and (I suspect mainly because of that) also help me be more productive in general.

Unless you're unfortunate enough to have both schizoaffective disorder and ADHD, you shouldn't really be thinking about stimulants for now. While they definitely improve mood and motivation in people with ADHD and even in controls, they usually have very negative effects on those with bipolar, psychotic disorders, and some personality and dissociative disorders. Modafinil is somewhat of an exception, but it still won't help solve your underlying problem, and may not even help you much at all depending on what's causing your lack of energy/motivation. If you still have issues with energy and drive after you've resolved your other symptoms, reconsider it then (it'll also likely be far more effective in that situation). Solve one problem at a time.

I can’t think very good in all honesty my initial post just happened to be long because I’ve been researching so long I had a lot to say. I haven’t actually tried Ritalin and adderall I’m just speculating it will cause anxiety because I naturally have such high anxiety. What is a DRA and NDRA? I’ve never tried benzos and opiates but when I drink alcohol I’m just out of it and feel like I have no control which makes me anxious. I’m a light weight. I don’t think I’m bipolar though I’m more just argumentative and irritable but really only to my family other people I’m perfectly normal and nice to.
I still believe a huge part of depression in a lot of people is dopamine and it makes sense as to why people arent getting cured with lack of dopamine drugs and excess ssri’s that don’t cure anything. I honestly haven’t heard one person cured from ssri’s they just boost mood a little.

 

[richards2324]

on a side not I find it weird the wellbutrin didn't work and the modafinil isn't yet. I also tried ayuhuasca and didn't feel anything from it which is b caapi vine(reversible MAOI inhibitor) and psychotria virdis leaves (DMT). It can be made with other DMT sources too. I also brewed b caapi by itself and felt nothing after drinking it 4 days in a row which people say is a good antidepressant on the dmt-nexus forum along with syrian rue which is also a reversible MAOI inhibitor. so I'm not sure why these subtstances aren't working. The antipsychotic I understand because if i'm low on dopamine I can see how it has nothing to block therefore won't work.