Feasibility of doing dope after kicking with Suboxone

[SmallChange38]

Hey guys, new to the community here but done a lot of fringe reading over the years. Before I get into my main question, I'll post some pertinent information about myself and my current situation. I'm 29 and have done opiates (very) spottily for about the past 15 years or so. Mostly pills, but also a fair amount of street H mixed in there as well. I've always been very good overall about not doing it very often (maybe 5 to 10 times total in a year, sometimes less), and as such, have obviously never developed a physical addiction. The most I might go on is about a two day bender, but that's it.

Queue to recently, about 2 1/2 or so months ago, right after Thanksgiving time, one of my teeth started hurting me horrendously. Being as I don't have insurance, it took me a little while to even be seen and diagnosed, let alone actually taken care of. In the mean time, all I really had to use for the pain was street dope. I originally started off with pharms, mostly Percs and Vics with a few Oxys when I could find 'em, but eventually that got to be prohibitively expensive and I figured the only thing I could do was make do with street dope. So I started scoring that. I took the pills for about a week and after starting with the H I snorted it for about a week before starting to bang it, as once again, I figured it more cost effective.

Anyhow, 2 1/2 months of mostly IV dope use is obviously more than enough to create an uncomfortable enough withdrawal, so cut to yesterday, I shot up my last bag of Batman at about 8 in the morning, and headed off (FINALLY) to my dentist appointment where I had the offending tooth extracted. Then I was off home to detox, as I have NO plans in harboring a constant addiction. I went home and prepared to start getting sick, and, having scored some Suboxone (3 8/2mg films), waited the inaugural 24hr waiting period and finally at 9am the next morning (25hrs!) I took a half of one sub strip, or 4mg bupe. I'm doing really well with everything honestly, a little uncomfortable, but comfy enough. I'm even thinking of possibly attempting to not take any more Suboxone, or at the least, dose once more with it, before leaving that alone, as I REALLY don't want to gain an addiction to a drug that doesn't even have the promise of getting you high.

Anyhow, onto my question. Assuming I detox successfully, which I'm 100% positive I will. I know that might sound ridiculous, but believe it or not, I've had a little dope the whole time, I kept some in the off chance that I'd enter precipitated withdrawals that I could get myself out of them. I really don't have much of a mental crutch in regards to using dope. At least not in the classic addict's sense.

My question is, after I'm done taking the Suboxone, and say I wait another three or four days or even a little more after my last dose of Sub, if I were to shoot dope, would it 1.)make me high as per normal?, 2.)Would it do anything to my body as far as bringing back any physical need for it? That is to say, will shooting up once shortly after kicking a habit enough to throw one back into a physical addiction so as to cause withdrawal symptoms? and 3.) Would my tolerance have gone down at all during that period? I wouldn't think it would but I figured I might as well ask since I'm here. Any input on this matter would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
SmallChange

 

[Rio Fantastic]

I can only speak from personal experience, but for me for a good week or so after the physical withdrawals subside, any use of an opiate will throw me back into admittedly milder but still very present withdrawals, even after once. And of course, any use after that has ALWAYS led back to addiction, and you honestly sound like you're in denial. If I were you I'd flush the dope, do you know how insane you sound that after you've got off subutex you want to go straight back to dope THREE DAYS LATER!? Dude, come on...

 

[Keif' Richards]

SmallChange: I'm going to first answer your stated questions and then give you a little bit of my own opinion on your situation, take it or leave it.

1. High as per normal, as you worded it, is really in the eye of the beholder. A short buprenorphine taper, followed by 3-4 days of complete abstinence from all opioids will have you close to baseline, but probably not all the way. You should, however, treat your first use post-detox as if you do have a fully lowered tolerance. It's the only safe way to go about it.

2. If you do some reading around Bluelight and the web in general, you'll find both that using opiates during withdrawal does have the strange ability to set your withdrawal clock back almost disproportionately. The same goes for when a user starts back up again after fully cleaning up. They will almost always run into dependence/withdrawal much faster than previously. In alcoholism, they refer to this phenomenon as the "Kindling Effect". I've learned from personal experience as an off and on opiate (Heroin) addict that this is almost certainly real and not just in the imagination of us users.

3. See above. I believe I answered this question in answer 1, but if you would like a more specific opinion on abstinence/tolerance let me know. I'll add that 4mg of buprenorphine potentially could be too much considering the length of your dependence, did you take the 4mg all at once?

Lastly, if you are sure you don't have a problem and are quitting in the hopes of avoiding further addiction, then why would you be using Heroin again at your first opportunity?

 

[SmallChange38]

Keif, thank you for giving me a real world response and actually answering my question. It's funny actually, something you specifically said in another forum totally stuck with me the past day or so in relation to the detox I'm going through and using subs, and that's "make yourself as comfortable as possible and don't be a pussy about it". Good advice for sure.

As for why I would like to use again whilst claiming not to have a problem, I guess as something of a litmus test. Like I said before, I've had the occasional stuff VERY sporadically since I was in junior high school. Like I said, I never had anything ever close to a problem with it recently whilst jumping through hoops to get my teeth taken care of. Perhaps you are right and I should wait a little longer, say, a few months?

In response to your response to question two, from what I gather, you're saying that each time someone kicks and subsequently relapses, it becomes successively easier to become dependent every time? Do you think if I waited for say one or two months, that I would feel any withdrawal symptoms after doing a small amount (one or two bags of probably not very strong shit)? Because I most definitely don't want to live the life of an addict. I've seen many who do and it's never ultimately pretty. And yes I know, I walk a very dangerous line flakily using as I always have, but it's something I enjoy, and basically what I'm saying is, it would suck to me if I lost the ability to occasionally do a casual bag of dope. Personally, I can't see becoming physically dependent on doing a couple bags in the course of one day, but I just figured I'd ask for some other opinions.

 

[Rio Fantastic]

Keif, thank you for giving me a real world response and actually answering my question. It's funny actually, something you specifically said in another forum totally stuck with me the past day or so in relation to the detox I'm going through and using subs, and that's "make yourself as comfortable as possible and don't be a pussy about it". Good advice for sure.

As for why I would like to use again whilst claiming not to have a problem, I guess as something of a litmus test. Like I said before, I've had the occasional stuff VERY sporadically since I was in junior high school. Like I said, I never had anything ever close to a problem with it recently whilst jumping through hoops to get my teeth taken care of. Perhaps you are right and I should wait a little longer, say, a few months?

In response to your response to question two, from what I gather, you're saying that each time someone kicks and subsequently relapses, it becomes successively easier to become dependent every time? Do you think if I waited for say one or two months, that I would feel any withdrawal symptoms after doing a small amount (one or two bags of probably not very strong shit)? Because I most definitely don't want to live the life of an addict. I've seen many who do and it's never ultimately pretty. And yes I know, I walk a very dangerous line flakily using as I always have, but it's something I enjoy, and basically what I'm saying is, it would suck to me if I lost the ability to occasionally do a casual bag of dope. Personally, I can't see becoming physically dependent on doing a couple bags in the course of one day, but I just figured I'd ask for some other opinions.

What will be different about your self-control then that wasn't present the first time you got hooked on opiates?

 

[szuko000]

This is my brief story on it. I was clean from subs for a full year before i decided one night to literally take a small amount of dope from my former g/f who was still using daily the entire time i was clean and it never bothered me. I took two bags and snorted it and got HIGH. I then proceeded to use only on Thursday and Sunday for about 3ish weeks, a total of 6-8 times, before i was like fuck it i feel sick so i am, i need to start doing more dope. Or it was something equally as stupid but it was just me fooling myself as i would wake up in a bad mood and not want to go to work, do dope and suddenly it would be a perfect morning and i loved it.

So i went from clean to a year to injecting more dope then i have in my life in say 3 weeks, maybe like 6-8 uses before i became a full blown addict. And i use to get, cook, and shoot my former girlfriend for that year as i never taught her to, i was worried she would over do it and die and being around dope did not bother me in the slightest, until i relapsed. My point is even with all that will power once the box was open i couldnt view it as "that weird white powder everyone fights over" it was back to being "heroin" because i knew it to be again.

 

[SmallChange38]

I think you missed what I was saying in my initial post. My addiction came about from taking the H for it's painkilling qualities for an infected tooth I had, not a lack of willpower, unless you count not wanting to be in violent debilitating pain (I had a fistulated bicuspid with an open nerve) as lack of willpower. I've done this quite a few times before, but every time had my dental ailment addressed in very quick time. This time not so much. I had no insurance and it took a hot minute to get my tooth taken care of. Y'all can say I'm "in denial" or whatever all you want, but considering I don't even know any of you, I don't see how I could have any reason to lie. I just wanted some opinions was all. It's not something I'm ever really around, and even in the instances I am/was it was never a gut wrenching temptation for me, so I'm not worried there. All I wanted to know was, if I were to shoot up, or snort some shit, JUST ONCE, say about a month from now, would I experience any complications insofar as any withdrawals or getting sick or anything like that. Like I said, before this past few weeks/ months I've never experienced any withdrawals before from a random single use or random few uses within a day or two's time. I'm hoping I will still be that same way when I'm done with the subs.

 

[Keif' Richards]

SmallChange, I don't think that you're going to find the ultimate, specific answer that you're looking for. All we can give you are generalizations based upon what we have experience as opiate addicts. You just need to realize that heroin is addictive and that you're reptilian, primal instinct brain is going to be constantly fighting with you're logical brain to get you to use again. We are all different and our experiences with dope are inevitably going to vary, but the truth is, when you take a step back and examine all of our experiences collectively, well, the stories are all quite similar.

You're currently in a phase where you're trying to figure out how to use heroin without becoming addicted. "How can I do Heroin without any negative consequences"? These thought patterns are how it starts man. We all were once at a point where we weren't using out of total compulsion, but we were scheming; trying to find out how we could use every day, but still get by. There had to be a way, and trying to find a way to use everyday without consequence is ultimately what lead to our dependences.

I don't like to preach as I feel that it's unnecessary and can impede on the flow of useful information but just be warned, this shit is addictive, you will almost certainly end up with an addiction if you continue to use. With that said, do your best to use on an intermittent basis. Take long breaks and don't ever use out of sheer compulsion. Don't let opiates become your only defense mechanism. Sorry for rambling and good luck.

 

[Rio Fantastic]

I think you missed what I was saying in my initial post. My addiction came about from taking the H for it's painkilling qualities for an infected tooth I had, not a lack of willpower, unless you count not wanting to be in violent debilitating pain (I had a fistulated bicuspid with an open nerve) as lack of willpower. I've done this quite a few times before, but every time had my dental ailment addressed in very quick time. This time not so much. I had no insurance and it took a hot minute to get my tooth taken care of. Y'all can say I'm "in denial" or whatever all you want, but considering I don't even know any of you, I don't see how I could have any reason to lie. I just wanted some opinions was all. It's not something I'm ever really around, and even in the instances I am/was it was never a gut wrenching temptation for me, so I'm not worried there. All I wanted to know was, if I were to shoot up, or snort some shit, JUST ONCE, say about a month from now, would I experience any complications insofar as any withdrawals or getting sick or anything like that. Like I said, before this past few weeks/ months I've never experienced any withdrawals before from a random single use or random few uses within a day or two's time. I'm hoping I will still be that same way when I'm done with the subs.

Ah, right. No, using once will not give you any significant complications. The key word being "once". Obviously, you are in fact the special one that can go from addiction to chipping, and how out of order for people to try and warn you from the collected experience of essentially every single heroin addict ever, because clearly, we just missed that YOU are the one singular different person who can go back to being a recreational user. You're totally different from the rest of us, I don't even know why you're asking our advice. You're special, right?