extreme thc reclamation
- Thread starter nepalnt21
- Start date
Egzoset
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2013
- Messages
- 1,371
Salutations Nepalnt21,
FYI the alias is written Egzoset with a capital "E", only hostile people seeking confrontation will choose the minuscule "e" instead as this is perpetuating some obscure troll remnant dating back to my presence on FuckCombustion in 2010, so now you know. But sometimes "social" shit just happens i guess (or hope)...
Personally i figured the healthier method also corresponds to the shortest path of least transformation.
Lets begin by focussing on the intrinsic nature of such challenge:
Despite the obvious variability illustrated above i believe contact surface emerges as one leading common feature awaiting scrutiny. After all it turns out that our sacred noble cannabic molecules conveniently collect in microscopic sphere-shaped trichome glands separated by tiny stems from a relatively planar vegetal substrate.
Popular Hot Dry Air Ovenizers (a la Volcano) do not exploit this characteristic, everything gets heated for long minutes while attempting to thermalize the bowl at a constant temperature. As far as i'm concerned this temperature is no more than an echo of past events where energy got absorbed and then converted into work, which would be vaporization ideally.
Using an HerbalAire v2.1 i found that tar/cauldron is generated even in absence of combustion, which points an accusating finger at the "baking" aspect; it may be efficient at extracting goodies but that also includes substances diffusing through vegetal tissue.
So, on one side we get precious biologically-filtered molecules neatly packed as tiny spheres while on the other we must attempt to manage with relatively massive surfaces possibly contaminated with systemic pesticides and whatnot inside. Hence i'd say intuitively the final goal should be to valorize such specific situation by exploring pulse-mode consumption methods where a heat charge is sufficient to vaporize the trichome glands while simultaneously trying to leave the rest untouched. Excessive heat time becomes a nuisance because of eventual thermalization exactly.
I've tagged that alternative as "Micro-Bursting", an extension of "1-Hitter" scenarios. It's about matching an energy "packet" with its workload target. The matching depends on the 3 forms of heat (conductive, radiative and convective) + mass + humidity level. The later property is required to be minimal because moisture in the bowl would defeat our efforts, not to mention there already is beneficial water as Inlet Self-Moisturization via the clean burning of butane (additional energy is carried by super-hot H2O and CO2 captured from a flame's corona)...
Vaporism pays for itself in terms of consumption cost, that's how i justified a couple thousand dollars trying to implement the forgotten fig. 11/12 feature of VG's patent for years, literally. You get a chance to be spared the frustration and expense in exchange for DIY involvement - keep in mind the initial genuine VG pipe concept simply didn't work for me anyway...
Instead of NASA stuff i patiently proceeded to susccessive Hybrid Core re-configurations until some meaning seemed to emerge, the plan was to go through ~7 generations separated by months-long evaluations as it was necessary to acquire both operator skills and background perceptions to be able to decide what to try next. Using the VaporGenie as a Prototyping platform simplified the task by providing a stable context relatively to airflow velocity, pressure, etc. it was some kind of gambling in FC days but i could finally offer "Sweet-Spot" values in recent years. For example, on average this year:
The Hybrid Core appears to be solved fine. There still was some doubt with the Monobloc and how it affects behaviour but i'd say that's a matter of convective to radiative ratio.
Taste/Aroma Taste appreciation always proved best using a "Classic" shaped handle, my favourite is the "Classic" look Aluminium VG pipe:
The Bronze Sherlock is great for intuitive operation (but i feel its auxiliary cavity under the bowl may be so large it traps the cannabic stream for too long), while the "Classic" (wood) is somewhat lighter in the hand:
Ultimately my preference clearly goes to the metal pipes because i get the option to torch-clean my bottom-of-bowl screen on their back as the overall heat-sinking mass protects me from finger-burning; which reminds me i'd even wish the Spheres were made of metal too, actually.
Unfortunately the main difficulty in implementing a Hybrid Core is the middle "17-Holes Metal Disc":
The good news is that i expect a replacement of equivalent mass with similar heat-transfer characteristics might work as well, just tell me what's the mass of a "DynaVap Circumferential Compression Diffuser Screen" (or "CCD Screen" for short)...
Last time i cared to check my evaluation was around 0.75 g if SS304, if theirs will compare then that's a go.
...
By the way, please keep in mind Egzoset never offered anything for rent or sale. My dedicated thread though did provide the coordinates of a store where i found a "UFO Element" that got trimmed down to ~1 mm thickness later. If it's correct to assume that Heat Charge is proportional to the metal's specific heat capacity, aerodynamics and mass then it should suggest that the CCD Screen by DynaVap can be made to work nearly the same. That, mister, is where you get an opportunity to add your own creative contribution; after all the principle of a miniature "hot-knife" convection analogy will apply to it as well if you stick to my layered LAVA structure:
In a cigarette/"joint" format part of the vegetal substrate and noble molecules are destroyed to heat the other half while toxic poisoning combustion fumes are also captured in the stream. My proposal is to temporarily contain an Energy Packet of finite amount which matches the workload, with the toxic component removed and yet with the benefit of hot gasses "potentialization" to improve pulse-mode further. Ideally the heat burst needs to be intense but it is a brief duration which prevents over-heating/combustion.
Ritual has some comforting organic dimension to it while promoting self-awareness from condensed water accumulating in the PVC Tubing Extension in cases of abuse. Operator skills defining performance ain't unlike musical instruments i would say, that alone compensates for loosing the characteristic smell of burnt weed. Path length hardly comes shorter than this and transformation is so minimal i was once told i probably obtain non-decarboxylated THC as a bonus (the one with anti-inflamatory properties). Etc., etc...
In any case such experiment is worth every penny IMO and the only part(s) expected to break would reside in 3rd-party supplied butane lighters. YMMV.
Good day, have fun!!
FYI the alias is written Egzoset with a capital "E", only hostile people seeking confrontation will choose the minuscule "e" instead as this is perpetuating some obscure troll remnant dating back to my presence on FuckCombustion in 2010, so now you know. But sometimes "social" shit just happens i guess (or hope)...
Personally i figured the healthier method also corresponds to the shortest path of least transformation.
Lets begin by focussing on the intrinsic nature of such challenge:
Despite the obvious variability illustrated above i believe contact surface emerges as one leading common feature awaiting scrutiny. After all it turns out that our sacred noble cannabic molecules conveniently collect in microscopic sphere-shaped trichome glands separated by tiny stems from a relatively planar vegetal substrate.
Popular Hot Dry Air Ovenizers (a la Volcano) do not exploit this characteristic, everything gets heated for long minutes while attempting to thermalize the bowl at a constant temperature. As far as i'm concerned this temperature is no more than an echo of past events where energy got absorbed and then converted into work, which would be vaporization ideally.
Using an HerbalAire v2.1 i found that tar/cauldron is generated even in absence of combustion, which points an accusating finger at the "baking" aspect; it may be efficient at extracting goodies but that also includes substances diffusing through vegetal tissue.
So, on one side we get precious biologically-filtered molecules neatly packed as tiny spheres while on the other we must attempt to manage with relatively massive surfaces possibly contaminated with systemic pesticides and whatnot inside. Hence i'd say intuitively the final goal should be to valorize such specific situation by exploring pulse-mode consumption methods where a heat charge is sufficient to vaporize the trichome glands while simultaneously trying to leave the rest untouched. Excessive heat time becomes a nuisance because of eventual thermalization exactly.
I've tagged that alternative as "Micro-Bursting", an extension of "1-Hitter" scenarios. It's about matching an energy "packet" with its workload target. The matching depends on the 3 forms of heat (conductive, radiative and convective) + mass + humidity level. The later property is required to be minimal because moisture in the bowl would defeat our efforts, not to mention there already is beneficial water as Inlet Self-Moisturization via the clean burning of butane (additional energy is carried by super-hot H2O and CO2 captured from a flame's corona)...
Vaporism pays for itself in terms of consumption cost, that's how i justified a couple thousand dollars trying to implement the forgotten fig. 11/12 feature of VG's patent for years, literally. You get a chance to be spared the frustration and expense in exchange for DIY involvement - keep in mind the initial genuine VG pipe concept simply didn't work for me anyway...
Instead of NASA stuff i patiently proceeded to susccessive Hybrid Core re-configurations until some meaning seemed to emerge, the plan was to go through ~7 generations separated by months-long evaluations as it was necessary to acquire both operator skills and background perceptions to be able to decide what to try next. Using the VaporGenie as a Prototyping platform simplified the task by providing a stable context relatively to airflow velocity, pressure, etc. it was some kind of gambling in FC days but i could finally offer "Sweet-Spot" values in recent years. For example, on average this year:
10 mm Flame-Catcher
15.64 to 16 mm Monobloc
3.05+ mm SiC Front Puck
0.99+ mm 17-Holes Metal Disc
2.42+ mm Top-of-Bowl SiC Puck
15.64 to 16 mm Monobloc
3.05+ mm SiC Front Puck
0.99+ mm 17-Holes Metal Disc
2.42+ mm Top-of-Bowl SiC Puck
The Hybrid Core appears to be solved fine. There still was some doubt with the Monobloc and how it affects behaviour but i'd say that's a matter of convective to radiative ratio.
Taste/Aroma Taste appreciation always proved best using a "Classic" shaped handle, my favourite is the "Classic" look Aluminium VG pipe:
The Bronze Sherlock is great for intuitive operation (but i feel its auxiliary cavity under the bowl may be so large it traps the cannabic stream for too long), while the "Classic" (wood) is somewhat lighter in the hand:
Ultimately my preference clearly goes to the metal pipes because i get the option to torch-clean my bottom-of-bowl screen on their back as the overall heat-sinking mass protects me from finger-burning; which reminds me i'd even wish the Spheres were made of metal too, actually.
Unfortunately the main difficulty in implementing a Hybrid Core is the middle "17-Holes Metal Disc":
The good news is that i expect a replacement of equivalent mass with similar heat-transfer characteristics might work as well, just tell me what's the mass of a "DynaVap Circumferential Compression Diffuser Screen" (or "CCD Screen" for short)...
Last time i cared to check my evaluation was around 0.75 g if SS304, if theirs will compare then that's a go.
...
By the way, please keep in mind Egzoset never offered anything for rent or sale. My dedicated thread though did provide the coordinates of a store where i found a "UFO Element" that got trimmed down to ~1 mm thickness later. If it's correct to assume that Heat Charge is proportional to the metal's specific heat capacity, aerodynamics and mass then it should suggest that the CCD Screen by DynaVap can be made to work nearly the same. That, mister, is where you get an opportunity to add your own creative contribution; after all the principle of a miniature "hot-knife" convection analogy will apply to it as well if you stick to my layered LAVA structure:
In a cigarette/"joint" format part of the vegetal substrate and noble molecules are destroyed to heat the other half while toxic poisoning combustion fumes are also captured in the stream. My proposal is to temporarily contain an Energy Packet of finite amount which matches the workload, with the toxic component removed and yet with the benefit of hot gasses "potentialization" to improve pulse-mode further. Ideally the heat burst needs to be intense but it is a brief duration which prevents over-heating/combustion.
Ritual has some comforting organic dimension to it while promoting self-awareness from condensed water accumulating in the PVC Tubing Extension in cases of abuse. Operator skills defining performance ain't unlike musical instruments i would say, that alone compensates for loosing the characteristic smell of burnt weed. Path length hardly comes shorter than this and transformation is so minimal i was once told i probably obtain non-decarboxylated THC as a bonus (the one with anti-inflamatory properties). Etc., etc...
In any case such experiment is worth every penny IMO and the only part(s) expected to break would reside in 3rd-party supplied butane lighters. YMMV.
Good day, have fun!!
Moxious
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2015
- Messages
- 316
Don't take yourself so seriously dude, nobody is aiming to insult you via a minuscule letter. If somebody wanted to flame you they wouldn't be so subtle.
I like all the research you've put into finding the best method for yourself. I definitely would be on the same bandwagon if my vape built up tar like you were saying. Did you try using a lower temperature? At the temps I run my vape I don't end up with any tar, just condensated cannabinoids and terpenes, basically a decent rosin. Need to filter out particulate if it's to be smoked though.
The only reason I'd really object to your methodology is that your aim is to consume only the trichomes, but I think there's a fair amount of goodies locked away in the plant matter that I wouldn't want to miss out on.
I'd think that if you really want the cleanest consumption, you'd have to go for concentrates. Trying to heat just the trichomes while leaving the plant matter untouched will never be 100% successful if they're in the same bowl, but you can generally be pretty sure that your concentrate is clean. Of course the effect isn't quite the same, so IMO it's not a suitable 1:1 replacement, but maybe we'll get there at some point.
Egzoset
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2013
- Messages
- 1,371
Salutations Moxious,
Join date: Mar 2015... M'well it's funny how things look in a house of distortion mirrors!
Anyway lets not forget the present topic ain't about me nor what i want or need while i garantee my customized VG pipe never "bakes" between 2 tokes.
Experiments focussed on temperature settings and then moisture kept me buzy kind of early during the ~25 months when i made circles around HA contraptions until i realized this was a dead end. Which caused me to seriously consider re-evaluating the VaporGenie (it seemed to confirm a persistent requirement for moisturization).
...
In the present "Micro-Bursting" context we rely on a Sphere's Hybrid Core configuration to help shape output, the analog style...
Adjustment can be performed by affecting how stored energy gets transformed before it reaches a bowl.
Here are 3 slightly different layouts from a recent trio:
Fatty (aroma/taste appreciation, conservation-wise sampler/trainer)
16 mm tall/deep Monobloc
10 mm tall/deep Flame-Catcher
2.96 mm thick SiC Front Puck
0.96 mm thick 17-Holes Metal Disc
2.53 mm thick Top-of-Bowl SiC Puck
Generalist (basic, multi-purpose, "Micro-Bursting" compatible)
15.64 mm tall/deep Monobloc
10 mm tall/deep Flame-Catcher
3.08 mm thick SiC Front Puck
1.01 mm thick 17-Holes Metal Disc
2.32 mm thick Top-of-Bowl SiC Puck
Spotty (marginal, experimental "Power Micro-Bursting", too "dry")
15 mm tall/deep Monobloc
10 mm tall/deep Flame-Catcher
3.11 mm thick SiC Front Puck
1.0 mm thick 17-Holes Metal Disc
2.42 mm thick Top-of-Bowl SiC Puck
%)
Anyway continue depending on ready-made Hot Dry Air Ovenizers if you can stand them.
How hot and how long remains an operator's choice, i like options. The trichomes part is an attempt trying to explain how "Micro-Bursting" differs, for a lack of peer reviews from duplicated observations since even before 2015. My LAVA engine supports pulse-mode but that doesn't exclude continuous heating, though only "Plan-A" would make sense and that's for future Induction Heat experiments yet to come.
Keep in mind i promised the shortest path of lesser transformation in any case!
Good day, have fun!!
Join date: Mar 2015... M'well it's funny how things look in a house of distortion mirrors!
Anyway lets not forget the present topic ain't about me nor what i want or need while i garantee my customized VG pipe never "bakes" between 2 tokes.
Experiments focussed on temperature settings and then moisture kept me buzy kind of early during the ~25 months when i made circles around HA contraptions until i realized this was a dead end. Which caused me to seriously consider re-evaluating the VaporGenie (it seemed to confirm a persistent requirement for moisturization).
...
In the present "Micro-Bursting" context we rely on a Sphere's Hybrid Core configuration to help shape output, the analog style...
Adjustment can be performed by affecting how stored energy gets transformed before it reaches a bowl.
Here are 3 slightly different layouts from a recent trio:
Fatty (aroma/taste appreciation, conservation-wise sampler/trainer)
16 mm tall/deep Monobloc
10 mm tall/deep Flame-Catcher
2.96 mm thick SiC Front Puck
0.96 mm thick 17-Holes Metal Disc
2.53 mm thick Top-of-Bowl SiC Puck
Generalist (basic, multi-purpose, "Micro-Bursting" compatible)
15.64 mm tall/deep Monobloc
10 mm tall/deep Flame-Catcher
3.08 mm thick SiC Front Puck
1.01 mm thick 17-Holes Metal Disc
2.32 mm thick Top-of-Bowl SiC Puck
Spotty (marginal, experimental "Power Micro-Bursting", too "dry")
15 mm tall/deep Monobloc
10 mm tall/deep Flame-Catcher
3.11 mm thick SiC Front Puck
1.0 mm thick 17-Holes Metal Disc
2.42 mm thick Top-of-Bowl SiC Puck
%)
Anyway continue depending on ready-made Hot Dry Air Ovenizers if you can stand them.
How hot and how long remains an operator's choice, i like options. The trichomes part is an attempt trying to explain how "Micro-Bursting" differs, for a lack of peer reviews from duplicated observations since even before 2015. My LAVA engine supports pulse-mode but that doesn't exclude continuous heating, though only "Plan-A" would make sense and that's for future Induction Heat experiments yet to come.
Keep in mind i promised the shortest path of lesser transformation in any case!
Good day, have fun!!
Last edited:
The Network
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2010
- Messages
- 1,970
This thread needs a dick slap across its face from a moderator... what the hell
Egzoset
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2013
- Messages
- 1,371
Moxious
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2015
- Messages
- 316
My apologies for joining in on the off-topic discussion.
nepalnt, given that you added fresh buds to the finished product when making your edible it may be difficult, but can you speak to how strong the final product was alone, and/or how much yield you got? I know it's difficult given everything that was combined at the beginning, but maybe you could compare to, say just smoking tar? (not that any of us have ever stooped that low >_>)
nepalnt, given that you added fresh buds to the finished product when making your edible it may be difficult, but can you speak to how strong the final product was alone, and/or how much yield you got? I know it's difficult given everything that was combined at the beginning, but maybe you could compare to, say just smoking tar? (not that any of us have ever stooped that low >_>)
nepalnt21
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Nov 3, 2016
- Messages
- 2,144
well, the second pull i tried alone, and i estimate that i got roughly the same amount of sludge from each pull.
the second pull that i used alone was probably roughly 500 or 600 mg of thc, which got me quite high, but not the level i was at from the first batch (for all i know it was a tolerance thing... i spaced the experiments 2 days apart, iirc)
the second pull that i used alone was probably roughly 500 or 600 mg of thc, which got me quite high, but not the level i was at from the first batch (for all i know it was a tolerance thing... i spaced the experiments 2 days apart, iirc)
nepalnt21
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Nov 3, 2016
- Messages
- 2,144
for sure. i need to take a tolerance break big time, but once im where i wanna be, im definitely gonna be experimenting with more oral dosing. might try mimicking the relaxation by cooking the thc to hell next time just to see what happens.