Experienced X Cannabis users input needed

[Keymaker]

So I have been debating this for awhile and wanted to kind of put it out there for comment/discussion

I am aiming it at people who would consider themselves to be X 'heavy' pot smokers and maybe 30-60 yrs of age.

Do you agree that weed is harmless? Do you think it should continue to be legalized? Do you think it is something that should be promoted in contemporary media?

I used to smoke a lot of bud over many years and gradually stopped smoking it, I still take a few tokes from time to time when the mood strikes but for the most part I dont smoke. Maybe once or twice a year on average for the past three years. I just wonder what the long term impacts of chronic use are in terms of mood, outlook on life, ambition, and even mental illness. I see that there are some studies suggesting chronic use can lead to certain psychoses, trigger schizophrenia, and lead to depression.

I wanted to get some feedback discussion going among older, experienced, users who may have something to contribute on this. I know weed is 'cool' now and just wanted to know if anyone out there thinks there may be some incidental/unintended outcomes to legalization.

Show me where any other categorization can apply toward your criteria.
In fact show me any other category in ANY subject.
There are abusers, and users. Nothing else exists. I merely applied my observations to the subject matter, and you in turn validated my belief in your above post stating that you could have done better (perhaps) if you did not use/abuse pot.
Pot is a tool. If used responsibly it achieves a required result. If used irresponsibly it causes harm.
A hammer is a tool... Wake up in the morning, and hit yourself in the head w/ that hammer. See where I went there?

Clear your eyes, and re-apply your mind to your betterment. The pot has worn off by now. I assure you it took nothing from you.
Pot don't make retards... Retards make retards.

Like I said in my first post. Don't blame the tool. Blame yourself for using it incorrectly.

YOU are the example of the reasons pot is misunderstood, and illegal. YOU are the reason it is not accepted as the tool it is! Thanks for your contribution to humanity.
In fact, this forum is open enough that I feel comfortable enough to thank ALL the douche bag "wake and bakers" that have abused pot for helping. People that really could have benefited (cancer / AIDS / anxiety / depression / ect...) I'm sure are all as thankful as I am.

Think about that shit!

 

[Birc0014]

derp

 

[thujone]

don't toke as much as i used to, herb has had negatives for me but i chalk it up to abuse. i worry because it's so benign it lends itself more to abuse than something like alcohol or certain harder drugs that you can get off before you get in too deep. if the herb had some major negative side-effect i would have been more inclined to part ways with it early on.

 

[pill_billy]

Weed isnt cool among teens in the Netherlands and hasnt been for almost twenty years, which is when they more or less legalized it...oh irony you sweet sweet whore

dude first off, please dont take your anger out on me cause these other guys are bein douchy....

and im in america and was reffering to american teens... also you are right and weed usage has fallen there but id bet my left nut its still "cool" with a sizable portion of teens...

and outside of the four states where its legal, and even then idk about the whole corp sponsorship... idt any of them are paying ppl to go blaze their weed for free and there have always been companies that made bongs n pipes n rolling papers n shit... yea its getting bigger but IMO going corp is better then staying illegal...

 

[Birc0014]

Sorry man I wasnt trying to post that as an attack or anything, just a mention on the declining use of pot among younger people in the Ned.

 

[Birc0014]

I dont know how the whole monetization of pot is going to work out, probably the same way heroin did. Pharma will patent the shit out of it all and probably turn it into a pill

 

[tacodude]

was a heavy user for a decade in the 90's.

I don't agree it is harmless. it used to be a lot safer in the 70's when the THC and CBD ratios were close to equal and around 4~5%,

Wow thanks for wording that as it opened my eyes quite a bit.... I've been seeking THCV rich and cbg/v rich stains, but have really been struggling. There's blueberry yum yum local tested at 1% cbg, but the issue is isolating CBG from thc and even cbd and cbc. There was an interesting idea of harvesting tons of 7 day old hemp plants where after it starts producing cbc in good amounts around 14 days, but it had no evidence behind it and was just written well. It's something I hope is researched soon.

Edit: in regards to what birc above said.... Gwpharma is literally doing this.

I'll add pot is not inheritly good or bad nor is taking fat rips. As well as responsible people sometimes act irresponsibily in mistake while irresponsible can pull off responsibility sometimes ie: sociopaths.

 

[Mafioso]

Ya most major pharmaceutical companies have been working on weed parents for probably decades now with millions invested. Main problem is weed culture is too self-sustaining- unlike heroin culture.

Anyways, I think the original intent of this thread is good. It is funny to me how every time one of theses threads pops up you have people who give genuine responses and then others who attack the core of the thread. If cannabis is truly harmless then why do some users feel the need to angrily attack people who question whether or not it is truly harmless? IME, this is a sign of projection of self-denial. Perhaps they don't want to doubt themselves and their choices so they attack the question instead.

Regardless, if you think cannabis is harmless then offer up some unbiased evidence. Perhaps some studies that demonstrate your point, or factual evidence. There are studies and evidence to the contrary but more often than not, at least on this forum, evidence is refuted by anger, personal attacks, and misdirection.

There are more than two types of people in the world, f you don't see that your world view is very small. The amount that you use a drug and the habits that go with it will increase or decrease side-effects of that drug but they do not remove them. You are very silly if you think you are special when it comes to drug use, and by definition cannabis is a drug...

I agree that when people face adversity in their life that it is easy to try to pick out ONE thing and cast all blame on that. That doesn't mean all side-effects are unreal and perceived. There is a great deal of evidence to suggest some people are more vulnerable to the negative effects of cannabis use, really none at all suggesting it is completely safe and harmless. Relatively benign? Perhaps, but that term is completely relative to personal perspective.

Just because you percive less negative effects from cannabis than others do does not mean that it isn't effecting you negatively. I doubt your memory has improved.

 

[tacodude]

There are more than two types of people in the world, f you don't see that your world view is very small.

So true.... It's impossible to understand how many possibilities there are as the number is infinite. Just that the possibilities are endless.

 

[Keymaker]

So true.... It's impossible to understand how many possibilities there are as the number is infinite. Just that the possibilities are endless.

Not exactly right but close enough...

People vary, yes. Reasons vary, yes.
But there is no category other than responsible or irresponsible. That is my only point. People in both categories will fall across the line, and distort "perfection" but that is not a category. That is part, and parcel of the package.

Memory loss seems to be the central focus of a "down side" of pot use. Of course it is an effect. But never proven to be a result. You have to take the study groups into account, and what predispositions were factored into them.
When your high the cat could explode, and you may not remember it. Or the day before what you had for lunch sober.
But when the pot wears off, you will remember the lunch from the day before, and have no clue where your cat went.

Studying "2nd groupers will only give you a result that applies to people that hit themselves w/ hammers. It's silly to believe any unexpected results could be found, or relevance implied. Besides... there is NO way to determine what is physiological, from what is conjecture.

The OP has proven this statement. "I believe I could have done better if not for the weed" (that is a paraphrase).
That statement shows he made a conscious decision to smoke rather than apply himself to a given situation. So again it was NOT the tool but instead the user. The statement is 100% conjecture anyway. Same for all the other comments on how Pot caused their issues. The user caused the issue, and is conjecturing that the tool caused the harm.

People always tend to look for a convincing reason for failure. A lack of self application is rarely mentioned but is more often then not the core issue. Not always as life circumstances such as Geo. Location, MONEY often come into play. BUT take a kid that slings rock on the corner to survive. The kid is a genius at figuring profit margin, weight conversions, route planning, ect.... Just never had a chance. I don't think he would EVER say that weed held him back due to it's negative side effects. He is honest with himself, and others in saying that Life held him back, and he applied what he could to survive.

Responsible / irresponsible / HONEST / EVASIVE

My apologizes for falling into what was perceived as anger. I saw what I took as a blatant "Troll" type comment, and took offense to apparently wasting time on the thread. Two wrongs never make a right... It takes three.

 

[Birc0014]

But there is no category other than responsible or irresponsible.

Shit life must be agonizing when you are only seeing things in black and white.

the OP has proven this statement. "I believe I could have done better if not for the weed" (that is a paraphrase).
That statement shows he made a conscious decision to smoke rather than apply himself to a given situation.

At no point did I 'blame' weed for anything. You dont even properly quote me and then go on to 'tear up' your admitted misquote and make assumptions/conjecture/judgements

Weed is not a tool, you sound like one by constantly referring to it as one. I would suggest you keep your assumptions about what my intentions are in posting this thread to yourself, as you dont really add to the discussion and only come off as looking like a judgemental ass. The reason I didnt respond to your 'think about that' post is because I had hoped you would have time to review it and realize how ridiculous it sounds.

 

[Birc0014]

Ya most major pharmaceutical companies have been working on weed parents for probably decades now with millions invested. Main problem is weed culture is too self-sustaining- unlike heroin culture.

Anyways, I think the original intent of this thread is good. It is funny to me how every time one of theses threads pops up you have people who give genuine responses and then others who attack the core of the thread. If cannabis is truly harmless then why do some users feel the need to angrily attack people who question whether or not it is truly harmless? IME, this is a sign of projection of self-denial. Perhaps they don't want to doubt themselves and their choices so they attack the question instead.

Regardless, if you think cannabis is harmless then offer up some unbiased evidence. Perhaps some studies that demonstrate your point, or factual evidence. There are studies and evidence to the contrary but more often than not, at least on this forum, evidence is refuted by anger, personal attacks, and misdirection.

There are more than two types of people in the world, f you don't see that your world view is very small. The amount that you use a drug and the habits that go with it will increase or decrease side-effects of that drug but they do not remove them. You are very silly if you think you are special when it comes to drug use, and by definition cannabis is a drug...

I agree that when people face adversity in their life that it is easy to try to pick out ONE thing and cast all blame on that. That doesn't mean all side-effects are unreal and perceived. There is a great deal of evidence to suggest some people are more vulnerable to the negative effects of cannabis use, really none at all suggesting it is completely safe and harmless. Relatively benign? Perhaps, but that term is completely relative to personal perspective.

Just because you percive less negative effects from cannabis than others do does not mean that it isn't effecting you negatively. I doubt your memory has improved.

Mafioso thanks for this feedback as it is along the lines I was hoping for in contributing to an informed discussion. I'm not making a 'point' just attempting to guage other peoples thoughts/feelings on their own experience with pot and I appreciate your input

 

[Mafioso]

Not exactly right but close enough...

People vary, yes. Reasons vary, yes.
But there is no category other than responsible or irresponsible. That is my only point. People in both categories will fall across the line, and distort "perfection" but that is not a category. That is part, and parcel of the package.

Memory loss seems to be the central focus of a "down side" of pot use. Of course it is an effect. But never proven to be a result. You have to take the study groups into account, and what predispositions were factored into them.
When your high the cat could explode, and you may not remember it. Or the day before what you had for lunch sober.
But when the pot wears off, you will remember the lunch from the day before, and have no clue where your cat went.

Studying "2nd groupers will only give you a result that applies to people that hit themselves w/ hammers. It's silly to believe any unexpected results could be found, or relevance implied. Besides... there is NO way to determine what is physiological, from what is conjecture.

The OP has proven this statement. "I believe I could have done better if not for the weed" (that is a paraphrase).
That statement shows he made a conscious decision to smoke rather than apply himself to a given situation. So again it was NOT the tool but instead the user. The statement is 100% conjecture anyway. Same for all the other comments on how Pot caused their issues. The user caused the issue, and is conjecturing that the tool caused the harm.

People always tend to look for a convincing reason for failure. A lack of self application is rarely mentioned but is more often then not the core issue. Not always as life circumstances such as Geo. Location, MONEY often come into play. BUT take a kid that slings rock on the corner to survive. The kid is a genius at figuring profit margin, weight conversions, route planning, ect.... Just never had a chance. I don't think he would EVER say that weed held him back due to it's negative side effects. He is honest with himself, and others in saying that Life held him back, and he applied what he could to survive.

Responsible / irresponsible / HONEST / EVASIVE

My apologizes for falling into what was perceived as anger. I saw what I took as a blatant "Troll" type comment, and took offense to apparently wasting time on the thread. Two wrongs never make a right... It takes three.

Not exactly sure what you mean by "never been proven to be a result" but in fact short term memory loss is one of the least if at all debated effects of smoking cannabis. Most the officially accepted literature outlines it pretty clear, and it is in fact pretty well understood by what mechanism it causes this memory loss now. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/03/120301143424.htm

I think you make a pretty big judgement of the OP based on little to no info at all so that he/she will fit into your stereotype. It seemed more to me that OP was looking for other first hand experience with emotional disorders and what not after quitting long term use. why do you have to judge him?

Also, your analogies don't really apply because there is evidence of changes in the brain structure with even recreational use. If you want to read the study, google "reduced grey matter recreational cannabis use" and I'm sure you'll find the studies or articles about the studies. You can refute them all you want, but it is quite cocky for one mind to fearlessly challenge and question entire academic institutions. I'm not saying scientist and universities are never wrong, but let's get real here for just a minute. There are people who have considered what you are saying and did new studies excluding the "2nd groupers" or heavy users. These are not just some backyard surveys done over the phone.

 

[Keymaker]

Quote: Mafioso
"reduced grey matter recreational cannabis use"


That is exactly my point. Recreational use.
This is very different from TRUE medicinal use, prescribed or not. This is where the entire argument against the medicinal use has built its foundation.
Drinking four pots of coffee per day has its issues as well. Everything in excess has its own problem set. You can not blame the problem on the coffee. The problem lies in the excessive use. Water is a toxic solvent The list of examples is almost endless yet the "Studies" you are pointing to are all based on the wrong application of the tool. They will Always find that a screwdriver makes a poor hammer no matter how many times they repeat the "study"

What I would like to see is a study taken over a 10 year period of legitimate medical marijuana patients (no hippies) that shows the disadvantages and or side effects.
That is the only criteria that matters.

Recreational Valium users have issues that legit users do not have. Ect...

I'm not arguing from behind a guild-ed curtain. I have no misconceptions of your points. They are valid. My argument is the points never should be allowed as anything more than a representation of a mis used product.
Hammers cause all sorts of problems when mis used. Stop blaming the hammer, and put the blame squarely where it belongs. On the user.

I also apologize if it I come across as judgmental. I suppose that is the only way to classify in my argument. By filling a slot. Personally I don't care. I am simply conveying my point, and I feel at this particular time I have run it into the dirt so with you understanding I will bow out at this time, and thank you for you tolerance as well as your polite conversation.

 

[Mafioso]

Lol Keymaker, I think you misunderstand how the word recreational is used. When referring to drug use, it typically is used to denote the lighter users from the heavier users. Recreational meaning for enjoyment, versus someone using for a "need". This isn't referring to medical/non-medical use. In the study about reduced grey matter in recreational users, they are talking about people who use only a few times a week or less. Read through the study carefully if you don't believe me, there is a lot of info out there on it but I don't have time to search it out for you right now.

Honestly, you do sound a bit judgmental in your viewpoint. I don't see how there would be a difference between a casual user and medical- regardless of drug. Side effects won't vary based on the legitimacy of your doctors prescription, it has nothing to do with an RX and everything to do with doseage and individual chemistry. How much of the drug are you taking and what sort of predispositions do you have, that is what determines the degree of side-effects. I suppose ROA will make some difference too, but if I'm smoking a gram of "black market" weed and your smoking a gram of "medical" weed- both same potency and what not.... well I'd be willing to gamble we will have a very similar experience.

This isn't a thread about "this is how weed ruined my life". This is a thread created by someone with serious concern about long term side effects. MMJ users and regular pot smokers will experience the same side effects alike, it doesn't matter if I have my card or not... Sure, "responsible" pot smokers, or lighter users, will experience these to a lesser degree when compared to more "irresponsible" pot smokers, or heavier users- but isn't that obvious? If you drink even one cup of coffee a day you will experience both addiction to coffee and a list of side effects. The addiction and side effects will probably be mild, but no coffee user is not subject to its side effects...

There are a lot of studies out there if you would really like to see some.

 

[Keymaker]

Quote:
This isn't a thread about "this is how weed ruined my life". This is a thread created by someone with serious concern about long term side effects.


You are correct. Perhaps I posted the right argument in the wrong thread.

It should have been in a thread about the long term side effects of the miss use of marijuana, caused by the user.

It's simply that threads, and studies, and general conversations such as these are what has prevented the legitimate use of a sorely needed natural medicine. It just ruffles my feathers.

It still comes down to blaming the hammer that caused memory loss while combing my hair.

I agree with your posts, and I am sure you understand mine. It's all good.
I am sorry if I offended anyone. Especially the original poster.

 

[Mafioso]

Lol that hammer analogy is the worst, but I think I get what you are saying...

No one is saying that it shouldnt be allowed for medical use and I really doubt it is conversations like these that have prevented it in the past. There is a big difference between actual science and propaganda like "refer madness". If you can't see that, it is unfortunate for you, getting feathers ruffled over nothing.

Not trying to continue the argument after it is over but please don't say things that dimish the point of the thread. There is a big difference between someone trying to understand and someone protesting pot. Big difference. Hope you understand.

Edit: unnecessary sry lol

 

[Keymaker]

100%. No worries, and my apologies.

 

[Mathew Lheureux]

I cant speak for myself but my uncle was a heavy potsmoker all his life and he seems to be doing fine. Notice how I said (he seems to be doing fine) instead of hes doing fine

 

[Mr_Fluffykins]

It's fucking weed, man. Cannabis makes you sound like a pretentious douche nozzle. And why the interest in something you only partake in once or twice annually? Even if there were long term Ill effects, you certainly wouldn't be under any risk! Not at your consumption rate. You sound like some high school kid who just got stoned for the first time, became enlightened overnight, rushed out and bought The Emperor Wears No Clothes, and decided to write your Junior year research paper on weed decriminal..., no excuse me, cannabis decriminalization.

Its Cannabis, weed infers negative connotations, so does marijuana. Cannabis Is the correct term, "pretentious douche nozzle?" I don't know about that but when i talked to several field experts at the Treating yourself cconvention in toronto, and unless specifically saying "medical Marijauna" which is catchy because of the alliteration they all used cannabis.
a Weed is an term for an unwanted plant, that is a pest or growing uncontrollable, like dandelions and such, Marijuana was a term used to help make the substance illegal because it was link to the laziness of the mexican worker, also it made white kids listen to that crazy jazz music, and black men look at women more then once,