Opioids Erm... double-vision and loss of coordination from opioids and/or potentiators?

[Fornax55]

Forgive the typos Z this experience seems to have also affected my focus and typing skills

So I’m no stranger to opioids or potentiators. I’ve been using street dope for years. Black oil is my preferred potentiator especisktnthrbextract from ND.

I was clean off dope for at least a week while using black seed extract. When I resisted dope again i was floored. Honestly when I use dope I try to avoid nodding whatsoever. I find it a waste of time. Now I can’t acoid it. And usually when I nod with current dope it would last an hour at tops. These nods persisted fir sometimes up to six hours, even when I would smoke bowl after bowl of speeddd to wake myself up.

This was strange and unexpected and not honestly very beneficial. It’s been about 4 hours since my last boot and I still find myself falling into a nod bevery few minutes

What really concerned me was the loss of coordination I developed that doesn’t seem to be going away. If I stand still for more than a few moments somehow I’ll stumble even though I’m not moving.

I can’t walk in a straight line. I also catch myself constsntly moving so that people don’t notice me swaying and stumbling.

Lastly I started getting really bad double vision during my bids last night and today. I’ve neber experienced that with any type of dope.. I’ve used dope from at least five different sources these last few days and they’ve all had the same potent, long-acting and concernkng effects.

I added n-acetylene-cysteine and inositol
To my stack this weekend , that was when I furst noticing the Doible vision. Prior to that I began using black seed and tongkat to reduce side effects and tolerance.

Anyone know what this might be. Preliminary research suggested a range of things, some manageable - hyperthyroid issues - ior more serious shit like multiple sclerosis

I’m typing this on my phone while standing and I just about faceplanted and locked this partn of my personality into the data sphere.

Update:
Oh and I keep having delusions and hallucinations that seem like I’m goin through REM sleep while I’m wide awake.!very disconcerting

 

[darvocet21]

What potentiators did you include in your stack? What other drugs licit or illicit do you take including supplements? It could be anything, even endogenous. But the timing is suspicious. What is black seed extract?

 

[Xorkoth]

Black seed oil is used to help soothe withdrawal and it is also a potentiator.

This does sound concerning. Don't work yourself up into a panic by trying to diagnose yourself online... what I would do is quit using the potentiators, and see if that helps. If it doesn't, try not using dope for as long as you can and see if it clears up. If the symptoms do not clear up when you're not on opiates, go see a doctor. I'd say that you're just taking too much, but if you're experienced, that might not be it.

Where are you located? If you're in the US, you've probably got fentanyl. In fact nearly all of the street dope is largely fentanyl these days, but from what I understand this is not the case yet overseas. If you have fentanyl and you aren't used to it, it could be causing you to get much more intoxicated than you're used to. If you're in the US, you might be used to fentanyl even if you don't know it, but this batch could be much stronger than you're used to. it sounds like you're just slightly overdosing, all of those symptoms can be caused by taking too high a dose of opiates.

 

[darvocet21]

Black seed oil is used to help soothe withdrawal and it is also a potentiator.

This does sound concerning. Don't work yourself up into a panic by trying to diagnose yourself online... what I would do is quit using the potentiators, and see if that helps. If it doesn't, try not using dope for as long as you can and see if it clears up. If the symptoms do not clear up when you're not on opiates, go see a doctor. I'd say that you're just taking too much, but if you're experienced, that might not be it.

Where are you located? If you're in the US, you've probably got fentanyl. In fact nearly all of the street dope is largely fentanyl these days, but from what I understand this is not the case yet overseas. If you have fentanyl and you aren't used to it, it could be causing you to get much more intoxicated than you're used to. If you're in the US, you might be used to fentanyl even if you don't know it, but this batch could be much stronger than you're used to. it sounds like you're just slightly overdosing, all of those symptoms can be caused by taking too high a dose of opiates.

He's right heroin has become an artisanal product. Available if you're a Hollywood a-lister, a politician or some other powerful person

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

I agree.

In fact, I use to do real brown before it all became fentanyl. My first time doing fentanyl had me faceplanting and actually reaching for my naloxone because I felt that fucked up. It wasn't even enjoyable either.

Double vision & ataxia could just be signs of over-intoxication.
I use to get double vision bad while nodding on things like tramadol, hydrocodone & heroin but it was tolerable. Fentanyl was terrible at it though. Never buprenorphine though really. But it's completely normal if you've done too much or you're just too fucked up.

I recommend what the others said. Stop use of potentiators. Maybe get a test kit to be safe with any street dope. If it doesn't clear up, it could be something entirely unrelated to opioids.


I feel bad for the addicts who will never get to feel regular good ol' brown dope because it's all fentanyl now. True heroin is a beautiful drug and a beautiful feeling. Fentanyl will never compare to it.

 

[darvocet21]

There's nothing good about heroin, unless you're in severe pain and then it makes life tolerable for a few hours. And what if the pain isn't the result of physical injury but comes from within? Better to face it rather than face the law of unintended consequences. Every monster you run from only gets stronger

 

[TheUltimateFixx]

Honestly when I use dope I try to avoid nodding whatsoever. I find it a waste of time.

Agree. I try to avoid it because, unless I'm at least half-conscious to enjoy my high, wtf is the point. (Unless of course your life is so far down the crapper that all you want is to switch your brain off short of actually dying, for a while. Been there.)

This was strange and unexpected and not honestly very beneficial. It’s been about 4 hours since my last boot and I still find myself falling into a nod bevery few minutes

What really concerned me was the loss of coordination I developed that doesn’t seem to be going away. If I stand still for more than a few moments somehow I’ll stumble even though I’m not moving.

This would concern me as well, as could be indicative of several different things.

and they’ve all had the same potent, long-acting and concernkng effects.

Right ; that's suspicious and strongly points towards an ingredient in the dope currently on the market in your area.

Anyone know what this might be. Preliminary research suggested a range of things, some manageable - hyperthyroid issues - ior more serious shit like multiple sclerosis

Speaking as someone from a medical household, multiple sclerosis would not come on suddenly like this. Hyperthyroidism might be a factor ; but so also might a simple ELECTROLYTE IMBALANCE which can easily have been brought about by your recent drug use.

Update:
Oh and I keep having delusions and hallucinations that seem like I’m goin through REM sleep while I’m wide awake.!very

In which case your drug might have been laced with a super - potent synthetic. Opioid-induced hallucinations ARE possible, but very uncommon ; and more usually reported in terminal care patients on maximum doses of morphine.
However your drug may also have been contaminated with fungal spores during manufacture, and this could potentially be very serious.

PS the loss of co-ordination and double vision ALONE is just a common sign of opiate over - intoxication, as it is with alcohol. It's the hallucinations which are a potential cause of concern.

 

[Higherfocus420]

I get double all the time from smack it's just a side effect same with feeling dizzy. I end having to close one eye to read whilst typing or texting lol

 

[TheUltimateFixx]

There's nothing good about heroin, unless you're in severe pain and then it makes life tolerable for a few hours. And what if the pain isn't the result of physical injury but comes from within? Better to face it rather than face the law of unintended consequences. Every monster you run from only gets stronger

Agree and also profoundly disagree.

Drugs are simply chemicals with certain effects. In and of themselves they are neither good nor bad, but neutral.

Using drugs to escape from life situations or painful mental states is pretty much guaranteed to lead anyone down a dark road, because you come to rely on the substance as a crutch.
Everytime you immediately run to the needle or the bottle the second you feel you can't deal with whatever, you effectively train yourself further in that exact behaviour and you re-inforce it every time.
Not to mention that such excessive consumption eventually creates more of a problem than the one the consumption was intended to help you cope with in the first place.

.. That said, I had instances in my life where the pain was so overwhelming thar the choice was take a hit or straight - up put an end to myself. Anyone gonna say to me the second alternative would've been the better one -?
Or that a drug does not serve a good purpose if it relieves suffering -?
Sometimes there ARE no good choices ; only less bad ones.

And having gone pretty much full - circle, I will maintain that yes, heroin can be a wonderful drug, if of reasonably good quality, if not used to excess (which applies to everything really), and so long as you're using merely for the pleasurable aspect and NOT because you're relying on it to save you in some way.

 

[Higherfocus420]

Agree and also profoundly disagree.

Drugs are simply chemicals with certain effects. In and of themselves they are neither good nor bad, but neutral.

Using drugs to escape from life situations or painful mental states is pretty much guaranteed to lead anyone down a dark road, because you come to rely on the substance as a crutch.
Everytime you immediately run to the needle or the bottle the second you feel you can't deal with whatever, you effectively train yourself further in that exact behaviour and you re-inforce it every time.
Not to mention that such excessive consumption eventually creates more of a problem than the one the consumption was intended to help you cope with.

.. That said, I had instances in my life where the pain was so overwhelming thar the choice was take a hit or straight - up put an end to myself. Anyone gonna say to me the second alternative would've been the better one -? Or that a drug does not serve a good purpose if it relieves suffering -?
Sometimes there ARE no good choices ; only less bad ones.

And having gone pretty much full - circle, I will maintain that yes, heroin can be a wonderful drug, if of reasonably good quality, if not used to excess (which applies to everything really), and so long as you're using merely for the pleasurable aspect and NOT because you're relying on it to save you in some way.

I'm with you in the peak of the lockdown in the UK if I didn't have drugs I would have probably killed my self but all in all they create more problems and usually it all ends in tears

 

[TheUltimateFixx]

In my experience it really ALL centres in what are your REASONS for using.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

There's nothing good about heroin, unless you're in severe pain and then it makes life tolerable for a few hours. And what if the pain isn't the result of physical injury but comes from within? Better to face it rather than face the law of unintended consequences. Every monster you run from only gets stronger

I disagree.
Heroin is excellent for physical and mental pain. But if the person is irresponsible & stupid, well then that's another story./

If I could take heroin instead of buprenorphine, I probably wouldn't have to take 52 other drugs in order to feel like the buprenorphine is doing it's thing.


Opioids not only have their place for physical pain but were also used for psychiatry with some great efficiency but were stopped due to their "addictive nature". Apparently the same people who make the rules have never come off of Effexor or a benzo...




I know it's of good intent, but people seem to think that because people use drugs that they're just "running from the/a problem", like they can just flip a switch and all their mental health issues (which most people deal with for life, if it's severe enough) will be gone and they're just being weak and 'keep running". While there are people out there who's mental health is not that big of a deal and they might get caught up, get clean and be fine, nobody stops to think that maybe there might be people out there that find therapeutic benefit from some of these drugs, which allow them to live a better quality life. I know, because I am or at least use to be one of those people.

If some one feels worse when sober and struggles to function but becomes functional and normal on their drug of choice, why should other people's personal dogma to "stay clean" dictate how that person chooses to live & cope with their life?




So to rephrase that for you, there are some bad things about heroin, there are some good things about heroin & it all depends on the person who uses it & how they use it.

I understand this is a harm reduction site and people just want to sway others away from drugs as much as possible, but not being honest about drugs is an extension of the drug war, the war that has and continues to create countless casualties.

 

[TheUltimateFixx]

It used to be psychiatric practice back in the day to prescribe morphine as a treatment for depression and panic states, given that it has both sedative (calming) and euphoric (mood - enhancing) properties.

Personally, I have clinical depression and I am finding opium (which I'm fortunate enough to be able to grow my own supply of) to be much superior to any anti - depressant or anxiolytic medication I've ever been legally prescribed.

.... Also, to be honest I get extremely annoyed with people who REALLY overdid some specific drug (or alcohol), then STOPPED overdoing it (good for them!), and THEN turn into some kind of quasi - religious 'recovery zealot' who's now convinced they've SEEN THE LIGHT and proceed to re-write their personal history in order to frame all their past use as fundamentally bad, and their poison of choice as the incarnation of all evil.

.. Drugs are nothing but effing chemicals. You can use them to your benefit or your detriment.
I had a massive habit and on average shot up 8x daily if I could get the supply.
I OD'd x amount of times each one could have easily killed me.
I do not blame THE DRUG for that ; that would be stupid. I had my reasons for using to excess the way I did ; which seemed good enough to me at the time.

I would have reached desperately for ANYTHING providing some little relief from the pain I was in. Heroin fit the bill, then it became a requirement to me through my increasing over - reliance on it. That's all there was to it.
Doesn't make me specially and uniquely 'weak' or the drug specially and uniquely 'bad'.

PS also given their aforementioned general effects, it really should not be surprising to anyone that opiates are the preferred go-to for the traumatized and hopeless.

 

[Xorkoth]

yeah a lot of recovery types, in my opinion, replace their drug addiction with addiction to their recovery, and then never truly recover. A guy who goes to my mom's church is a zealot about AA, of course he was also the type of alcoholic to destroy everything in his life and end up homeless every time he started drinking. But if you spend time with him, AA and religion are the ONLY topics of conversation.

Now granted, being obsessed with AA/NA and talking about the evils of drugs and religion is going to result in a better life for people who have truly exhausted all other options. The guy I was referring to is certainly far happier this way than he was as an alcoholic. But if you think about your DOC every day and base your life around avoiding it, have you really recovered, or are you still an addict? I think for most people, the middle path is better.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

It used to be psychiatric practice back in the day to prescribe morphine as a treatment for depression and panic states, given that it has both sedative (calming) and euphoric (mood - enhancing) properties.

Personally, I have clinical depression and I am finding opium (which I'm fortunate enough to be able to grow my own supply of) to be much superior to any anti - depressant or anxiolytic medication I've ever been legally prescribed.

.... Also, to be honest I get extremely annoyed with people who REALLY overdid some specific drug (or alcohol), then STOPPED overdoing it (good for them!), and THEN turn into some kind of quasi - religious 'recovery zealot' who's now convinced they've SEEN THE LIGHT and proceed to re-write their personal history in order to frame all their past use as fundamentally bad, and their poison of choice as the incarnation of all evil.

.. Drugs are nothing but effing chemicals. You can use them to your benefit or your detriment.
I had a massive habit and on average shot up 8x daily if I could get the supply.
I OD'd x amount of times each one could have easily killed me.
I do not blame THE DRUG for that ; that would be stupid. I had my reasons for using to excess the way I did ; which seemed good enough to me at the time.

I would have reached desperately for ANYTHING providing some little relief from the pain I was in. Heroin fit the bill, then it became a requirement to me through my increasing over - reliance on it. That's all there was to it.
Doesn't make me specially and uniquely 'weak' or the drug specially and uniquely 'bad'.

PS also given their aforementioned general effects, it really should not be surprising to anyone that opiates are the preferred go-to for the traumatized and hopeless.

Couldn't have said it better myself UltimateFixx!!

I have found tramadol, morphine, diacetylmorphine, buprenorphine (to a degree) & methadone to all have an incredible anti-depressant effect on me.
Unfortunately stuff like kratom never does anything for me and I have a hard time understanding why people enjoy that one, but I digress. lol

I don't get to use anything these days except buprenorphine (which ran out of magic a long time ago) but I still remember my days taking 5 hour walks and going on cleaning rampages while using tramadol & heroin. To me, I assume it's what "normal" people who were able to get up and do these things felt like.

Being an opioid 'addict' also had the fortunate side effect of completely eliminating my alcohol use. Since I never actually enjoyed the alcohol "high" anyway, but used it because of depression/fatigue/body pain, but when I have a steady daily dose of an opioid, I never think about alcohol (which kills people all over the world every day, more than most other drugs) anymore.

I would still love to utilize opioids (safely & legally, other than just buprenorphine) for my depression but we live in a moronic society.

 

[darvocet21]

It used to be psychiatric practice back in the day to prescribe morphine as a treatment for depression and panic states, given that it has both sedative (calming) and euphoric (mood - enhancing) properties.

Also much safer!

Personally, I have clinical depression and I am finding opium (which I'm fortunate enough to be able to grow my own supply of) to be much superior to any anti - depressant or anxiolytic medication I've ever been legally prescribed.

Most modern antidepressants work on the placebo principle as much as pharmacological effect. The tell is when your doctor says it usually takes 2-4 weeks to note an improvement of mood/ lifting of depression. And if you don't they say well that's because you need a higher dose, again to the 2 to 4 weeks.

However there is a lot of evidence to suggest that proactively doing something about your depression itself has an antidepressant effect.

.... Also, to be honest I get extremely annoyed with people who REALLY overdid some specific drug (or alcohol), then

I do too, and I guess I sounded preachy but so be it. Anyway it's polluted by virtue of being illegal