epistemology in the 21st century, doctors as priests

[tantric]

epistemology

n. a branch of philosophy that investigates the origin, nature, methods, and limits of human knowledge.

for chrisitans, the bible is the source of truth, because it's the word of god, right? nonchristians now turn to science, but most don't actually understand the science - they treat scientists as priests who have their knowledge from on high. which is understandable, as no one can possible delve into all that and still have a life, and the scientific method and peer review and integral to science, keeping it relatively honest. i know some branches, but i see physics as voodoo - dark matter? or 'there's a huge problem with all our theories, so there must be this invisible undetectable stuff that's making them work'. but okay.

now, i know that there are several kinds of intelligence: Musical, Verbal, Logical, Body, Visual, Interpersonal, Intrapersonal, Naturalistic and Existential. i know i'm genius level at logic, verbal and naturalistic (the individual who is able readily to recognize flora and fauna, to make other consequential distinctions in the natural world, and to use this ability productively). i also know that in several other areas, i rate like a brain damaged baboon. i'm a total fuck up at life, can't interact with society and can't use my abilities to my advantage. fact. i don't see it as being superior - it's just a personality trait.

but i have spent 20 years learning about drugs, starting with clandestine chemistry, through ethnobotany, on to psychopharmacology. when i got out of college, i hacked my way into JSTOR so i could still read journal articles. fuck, most people don't know what JSTOR, etc are (read about Aaron Swartz, the martyr of free information - the US govt hounded him to suicide for this in something that looks like a soviet union kangaroo court). but basically everday i read a new journal article, it's how i find out stuff. it's what scientific knowledge IS. frankly, a degree proves you can look up and understand an answer.

for most americans, doctors are priests. their knowledge is scared and inviolate. the medical profession perpetuates this - seeming confident is more important than being certain. not all doctors - mine in grad school, when i asked a question, opened up our journal server and looked it up, printed me out a paper - from that moment on, he was doc Asclepius in my book. others - i've seen shrinks go into neurotic defensive mode for being questioned. if he can't tell the neuropharmacology of the drug he's prescribing, in my world, he's incompetent and dangerous.

right now i'm running into a brick wall with my boyfriend. he's a long term user of meth. last night he got sick - flushed and clammy, histamine stuff, which i thought was probably early withdrawal. and likely, his dopamine receptors are toast and he could smoke an eightball and it wouldn't help, but i didn't say anything. the next morning he went to my sister, my absolute mortal enemy, for help - she gave him methadone. he's totally opiate naive, never takes pills, and took an unmeasured dose.....so of course, he spent the next day puking his guts out.

if he'd asked me, i'd have given him about 75mg of dxm, which eases most of the bad parts of withdrawal and is generally neuroprotective (it prevents the brain damage associated with MDMA when coadmistered, etc). or a few other thing we might have done. i have gabapentin. fuck - grapefruit juice and pseudofed. and i'd look it up first.

but he WILL NOT take any advise from me because 'you're an arrogant know it all who's really a dumbshit, cause you're not a doctor and you don't know'. to me, what he did was flat out deceptive. he went behind my back to get drugs from some i hate with an immortal passion, hid it from me, suffering the consequences and now blames me for being a controlling ass. because with him, i don't edit my speech like i do with almost everyone, talking on a 10th grade level (not to be superior - it just the language and how to communicate), i'm talking down to him. i know he's a stone cold genius in several types of IQ, so much it scares me a bit, so i talk to him like an equal. for me, that's total respect.

so, am i wrong? how wrong? am i right and still an ass? how can i help? thanks

 

[drug_mentor]

I feel like you have the potential for an interesting philosophical thread in relation to the pervasiveness of scientism among a population that largely has little to no understanding of how science actually works and the implications of this situation. Unfortunately, you have mostly shifted the focus to questions about your relationship problems.

If you want the focus to be on your relationship then I think this thread is better suited to SLR. I feel like you could probably chop your post up and make 2-3 different threads. Anyway, I don't have any input on your relationship situation, but if you feel like refining this to a more philosophical thread along the lines I already mentioned then I would gladly contribute.

Also I just want to mention that I was under the impression that using DXM with MDMA can cause serotonin syndrome, so it is not a safe combo, even if the DXM is somewhat neuroprotective as you claim. I know you did not explicitly say it was safe but I felt this deserved clarification as someone may read that and think using these drugs together could reduce the risks associated with MDMA use.

 

[tantric]

as you wish....

MK-801 and dextromethorphan block microglial activation and protect against methamphetamine-induced neurotoxicity

The N-methyl-d-aspartate (NMDA) receptor antagonist, dextrorphan, prevents the neurotoxic effects of 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA) in rats

i did three years of hard science gradschool - i don't make claims without refs. if you want more, dude, Google Scholar. and death to the fascist MF's who think they own scientific knowledge. never forget Aaron Swartz. scientific knowledge is the product of the collective mind of humanity, and belongs to all of us (notice you have to pay $30 to actually read those papers).

about the rest, i can't separate it now. i chose this forum because i'd rather talk about it rationally than emotionally.

 

[drug_mentor]

It's late and I am stuck trolling through some boring as fuck studies of my own, for this reason I wont be looking at those journal articles in a hurry.

It is worth noting that I never actually expressed that you were wrong. However, you made a pretty generalised claim when you said: "it (DXM) prevents the brain damage associated with MDMA when coadmistered, etc". Now, I know that you probably meant at a reasonably low dose, but someone could read that and take away the idea that it is safe to combine recreational doses of both drugs. The risk of serotonin syndrome make this behaviour unsafe. I simply sought to clarify that it is potentially dangerous to combine DXM and MDMA.

Perhaps if the dose of DXM is sufficiently low then serotonin syndrome is not a risk and the DXM is otherwise neuroprotective. But, if that is the case you should say this specifically, not make the generalisation that DXM prevents brain damage associated with MDMA whilst failing to specify the relevant safe dosage range.

 

[tantric]

It's late and I am stuck trolling through some boring as fuck studies of my own, for this reason I wont be looking at those journal articles in a hurry.

It is worth noting that I never actually expressed that you were wrong. However, you made a pretty generalised claim when you said: "it (DXM) prevents the brain damage associated with MDMA when coadmistered, etc". Now, I know that you probably meant at a reasonably low dose, but someone could read that and take away the idea that it is safe to combine recreational doses of both drugs. The risk of serotonin syndrome make this behaviour unsafe. I simply sought to clarify that it is potentially dangerous to combine DXM and MDMA.

Perhaps if the dose of DXM is sufficiently low then serotonin syndrome is not a risk and the DXM is otherwise neuroprotective. But, if that is the case you should say this specifically, not make the generalisation that DXM prevents brain damage associated with MDMA whilst failing to specify the relevant safe dosage range.

we approach harm reduction differently, though i see your point. yes, doses less than 100mg, nonrecreational. i expect everyone to be responsible for their own lives - reading one line on an internet forum, without references, and using that to decide to co-dose is ass hat stupid. people who do that WANT to co-dose and don't want to hear caution. okay with me. through i will in the future distinguish between low dose and rec dose, as that is important to understanding. peace?

can we talk about my shit, please, which is tearing my life apart, please? but rationally.

 

[drug_mentor]

we approach harm reduction differently, though i see your point. yes, doses less than 100mg, nonrecreational. i expect everyone to be responsible for their own lives - reading one line on an internet forum, without references, and using that to decide to co-dose is ass hat stupid. people who do that WANT to co-dose and don't want to hear caution. okay with me. through i will in the future distinguish between low dose and rec dose, as that is important to understanding. peace?

I have no issue with you mate, but I feel in this instance your approach to harm reduction is counter productive. You have to remember this is a harm reduction forum filled with impressionable people who may not be in a completely rational state of mind. It is important to be extremely clear when advising on the potential benefits of polydrug use, especially when the drugs you are talking about combining are contraindicated in many circumstances.

A lot of people are fucking stupid, but as far as I am concerned bluelight exists to benefit all drug users, including the stupid ones. I don't think you can absolve yourself from giving ill conceived advice by pointing out that those who followed said advice would be just as ill conceived in doing so.

can we talk about my shit, please, which is tearing my life apart, please? but rationally.

I hope you can work through your issues, but I have no advice to offer you. I don't mean to sound cold, but I browse P&S for the philosophical discussions, not to weigh in on relationship dramas.

 

[tantric]

I have no issue with you mate, but I feel in this instance your approach to harm reduction is counter productive. You have to remember this is a harm reduction forum filled with impressionable people who may not be in a completely rational state of mind. It is important to be extremely clear when advising on the potential benefits of polydrug use, especially when the drugs you are talking about combining are contraindicated in many circumstances.

A lot of people are fucking stupid, but as far as I am concerned bluelight exists to benefit all drug users, including the stupid ones. I don't think you can absolve yourself from giving ill conceived advice by pointing out that those who followed said advice would be just as ill conceived in doing so.



I hope you can work through your issues, but I have no advice to offer you. I don't mean to sound cold, but I browse P&S for the philosophical discussions, not to weigh in on relationship dramas.

nor do i mean to sound off, though i obviously am, when i say if you don't understand that compassion goes before wisdom by now, well, browse on.

 

[Jabberwocky]

oh Tantric. My heart goes out to you. I'm not questioning your wisdom, in fact, I dare say I've benefitted from it on an occasion. The following metaphor came to mind: picture Albert Einstein yelling E=MC^2 in the middle of some MIT dorm room fire while everyone else is yelling evacuate evacuate. You've cracked this riddle wide open and yet the worlds still a madhouse. Well, so take a deep breath and reassess. Perhaps you're going in the wrong direction with this and what you're feeling and what your life is showing you is doing a good job of showing you that.

Deep down in your soul there a musical note being played. That's the direction you want to be going. Listen to that vibrational tone playing in your soul. Own it. Feel it. Be it. Sing it. Praise it. That's the note you've chosen to play and it's playing. So go back to that note. See if you can intonate to it. Then sing your heart out until that note no longer wants to be sung. Then don't panic. No need to fill the silence. Choose a new note to play. Enjoy the journey.

 

[Kittycat5]

I like your musical metaphor, levelsbeyond but it seems to me tantric's problem is not being able to harmonize with the notes of the boyfriend's songs. Perhaps I am off-base, but tantrics words on how his/her (sorry tantric, I am not sure if you are male or female) boyfriend calls him a know-it-all and how he isnt a doctor so what does he know resonates with me. Sometimes the one we love just will not take any advice we give no matter if we actually do have more knowledge than them, dont flaunt it and genuinely are trying to help. It seems even much more difficult in tantric's case than in my experience as it seems the boyfriend can and should know he is being given sound advice but still refuses. That must be utterly frustrating, as for me, my wife has next to no knowledge of medicine or drugs, so I know it is simply her not listening because of other issues in our relationship and despite her putting up a fight, I know she still respects my knowledge and some info gets through.

I wish I had more methods to help you tantric as I can relate. But if I did I would use them and not have this issue. I guess it just comes down to working on the larger issues of the relationship so the smaller ones dont seem like they are major problems. Not exactly something most dont know, but still truth in it. Hope you can work things out, tantric as I understand the pain a rough patch in a relationship can cause.

 

[tantric]

that's *fascinating*. i decide to try the Tao, the watercourse way...but it did not go well. i decided that if i couldn't talk to him, i'm interact in other ways. he has a xmas thing, so i went and bought candycorn cookies, maplebutter cookies and the stuff to make banana pudding cookies with peanut butter chips and tiny nilla wafers - and got my mom's xmas plate to put the cookies on. trying to bake them all at the same time! but my sister, who lives in the house, would not leave us alone. i told her beforehand that i need time with boo. she couldn't stay away. she just had to do her laundry, one piece at a time, adjacent to my kitchen, and talk constantly - like a tweeker on a binge, which is what is happening. i don't know if this makes sense, but my magic does work around her - i need music, she can't stand music, she has to talk, nonstop and you have to pay attention to her. i don't know how many times i asked her to leave, begged her. she flat would not do it. my boo, in his perceptions, sees me as an aggressive abuser when i do nothing such. tonight he saw my ugly. when i do malice, bitches up in the space station know about it cause my ugly is visible from MF orbit. i went into pure simian dominance threat display. i screamed louder, with a deeper voice, i got up in her personal space and literally chased her up stairs while she was screaming 'daaaddy - he's crazy, he hit me" i threw a towel at her.

i can do that shit. i survived a maximum security prison. i HATE it. but when i do it, i get it done. i don't think he'll ever come around me again. he told me earlier today - that he's afraid of me. he didn't ask for my advice because he thought i would belittle and humiliate him - and i would weep blood before i would do that.

i'm so afraid