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Ethnobotanicals Entheogenic orchids - any info?

Xorkoth

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My girlfriend is very into cultivating orchids. She was reading about a group of orchids which are used as entheogens - a collection of Oncidiums that got reclassified to "Trichocentrum". According to wiki:

The Central and South American species Trichocentrum cebolleta (known formerly as Oncidium cebolleta) has been found to contain a variety of phenanthrenoids.[3] This species is of considerable ethnobotanical interest as one of only a handful of orchids reported to be used as an entheogens. T. cebolleta is used as a substitute for hikuli a.k.a. peyote (the hallucinogenic cactus Lophophora williamsii) by the Tarahumara of Northern Mexico - a tribe noted for the large number of hallucinogenic plants which it uses in various shamanic and running-related practices. The combination of phenanthrenoid content and employment as entheogens in shamanic practices is to be found also in the Asiatic orchids Vanda tessellata and Dendrobium macraei (- known formerly as Ephemerantha macraei and Flickingeria macraei - see page Flickingeria). The orchidaceous genera Trichocentrum, Vanda and Dendrobium are all members of the subfamily Epidendroideae and are also placed currently in the subgroup/clade of Higher Epidendroids within the subfamily.

I looked into phenanthrenoids, as I had never heard that term before. It's a structural backbone for a variety of compounds, which are found in nature in these orchids. From wiki:

In orchids
Phenanthrenes have been reported in species of Dendrobium, Bulbophyllum, Eria, Maxillaria, Bletilla, Coelogyne, Cymbidium, Ephemerantha and Epidendrum.[3]

3,4,8-Trimethoxyphenanthrene-2,5-diol is one of the 17 phenanthrenes found in the extract of the stems of the orchid Dendrobium nobile.[7][8]

From the stems of the orchid Flickingeria fimbriata, three phenanthrenes can be isolated. The structures are 2,5-dihydroxy-4,9,10-trimethoxyphenanthrene, 2,5-dihydroxy-4-methoxyphenanthrene and 2,5,9-trihydroxy-4-methoxy-9,10-dihydrophenanthrene. These molecules are named plicatol A, B and C.[9]

Nudol is a phenanthrene of the orchids Eulophia nuda, Eria carinata and Eria stricta.[10] 9,10-Dihydro-2,5-dimethoxyphenanthrene-1,7-diol is a phenanthrene from Eulophia nuda. This compound shows cytotoxic activity against human cancer cells.[11]

2,7-Dihydroxy-3,6-dimethoxyphenanthrene is a phenanthrene from Dehaasia longipedicellata.[12]

Bulbophyllum gymnopus produces the phenanthrenediol gymnopusin.[13]

Bulbophyllum reptans contains gymnopusin, confusarin (2,7-dihydroxy-3,4,8-trimethoxyphenanthrene), 2,7-dihydroxy-3,4,6-trimethoxyphenanthrene and its 9,10-dihydro derivative, flavanthrinin (2,7-dihydroxy-4-methoxyphenanthrene) and its 9,10-dihydro derivative (coelonin), cirrhopetalanthrin (2,2′,7,7′-tetrahydroxy-4,4′-dimethoxy-1,1′-biphenanthryl), its 9,9′,10,10′-tetrahydro derivative (flavanthrin) and the dimeric phenanthrenes reptanthrin and isoreptanthrin.[14]

Bulbophyllum vaginatum contains the two phenanthrenes 4,9-dimethoxyphenanthrene-2,5-diol and 4,6-dimethoxyphenanthrene-2,3,7-triol, and the two dihydrophenanthrenes 4-methoxy-9,10-dihydrophenanthrene-2,3,7-triol and 4,6-dimethoxy-9,10-dihydrophenanthrene-2,3,7-triol.[15]

Coelogyne cristata contains coeloginanthridin (3,5,7-trihydroxy-1,2-dimethoxy-9,10-dihydrophenanthrene), a 9,10-dihydrophenanthrene derivative, and coeloginanthrin (3,5,7-trihydroxy-1,2-dimethoxyphenanthrene), the corresponding phenanthrene analogue, coelogin and coeloginin.[16]

Orchinol and loroglossol have a phytoalexin effect and reduce the growth of Cattleya aurantiaca seedlings.[17]

The phenanthrenes 2,5-dihydroxy-3,4-dimethoxyphenanthrene, 9,10-dihydro-2,5-dihydroxy-3,4-dimethoxyphenanthrene, 2,7-dihydroxy-3,4-dimethoxyphenanthrene (nudol), 9,10-dihydro-2,7-dihydroxy-3,4-dimethoxyphenanthrene, 2,5-dihydroxy-3,4,9-trimethoxyphenanthrene and 2,7-dihydroxy-3,4,9-trimethoxyphenanthrene can be isolated from Maxillaria densa.[18]

Cirrhopetalanthrin is a dimeric phenanthrene derivative from Cirrhopetalum maculosum.[19]

Glycosides
Five phenanthrene glycosides, denneanoside A, B, C, D and E and one 9,10-dihydrophenanthrene glycoside, denneanoside F, can be isolated from the stem of Dendrobium denneanum.[20]

If you check the wiki I linked to for phenanthrocenes, it gives links to a lot of what is mentioned above in the quote. Unfortunately I can't seem to find anything about their psychoactivity or pharmacology. Does anyone know anything about this? I'm super curious now. I had never heard of enthegenic orchids, and apparently one species substitutes for peyote for the Tarahumara people.
 
I have a garden with orchids outside where I live and am into growing them a lot but had no idea that these existed. Thanks for bringing this to my attention, Shadow ;)


BTW one of my favorite Dr Who "classic" episodes was one called "The Black Orchid" which had a sacred standing in a Peruvian Indian tribe. The British "discoverer" went insane after some unaccountable experience (according to the plot of the episode). One has to wonder if that was a psychedelic orchid they were referring to in the story. Just an aside ;)


[video]https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5vf49f[/video]


Dr Who had a lot of stuff "between the lines" sometimes ;

Anyways I thought you might enjoy that aspect of it as well as more info on the actual species.
 
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Thanks for the replies, guys. I'm also really curious as to if anyone has actually tried or knows of written accounts of anyone trying the species that substitutes for peyote for the Tarahumara people. Of course it could be that it substitutes for one use of peyote, it mentioned the tribe uses many substances for running-related practices, so if peyote is used in a lower dose for endurance and energy or something, it may be that this orchid is not psychedelic but has stimulating properties. It would just be really fascinating if there was a whole new class of compound able to produce a psychedelic state.
 
Fascinating - this is totally new to me! I'm going to dig into it this evening when I have some time. Prior to this, the only citation that I can think of that mentions an enthroned herb species was that of lady's slipper in Jonathan Lust's seminal "The Herb Book." I get thinking that it sounded unlikely and, if true, unsafe.
 
The only place I too have heard about this is in Plants of the Gods by Richard Shultes and Albert Hoffman. I do have an interest in finding things in nature that have effects on the mind. There was talk of oxycodone in orchids too but I am not sure how validated some of these claims are. But after Salvia Divinorum I fully believe there are things in nature we have not even come close to discovering. Salvia was known as a sort of mystery until Daniel Siebert's validation that this was well above placebo came about. Then there was an explosion of interest for experimenters.

I'd like a peak at a 100 years from now. Think of how far humanity came in the last 100 years.
 
Oh I'm quite sure there are plants that we in Western culture at least have never heard of. There is probably a whole class of drug out there we haven't ever encountered or thought of with fascinating effects on the human mind. That's why these reports of psychoactive/psychedelic orchids fascinate me, because those species contain a type of alkaloid I haven't previous heard of, phenanthrenoids. There seems to be relatively little known about them, too. Imagine if we found a whole new class of psychedelic, and if substitutions could be explored...
 
Very interesting stuff! Markus Berger described the action of Dendrobium nobile as similar to Cannabis, although to me, his trip report sounded somehow more like an anticholinergic deliriant. Which leads me to the qestion most interesting to me: whast is the psychopharmacology of Phenanthrenoid Alkaloids? I assume that most people here see the slight similarity of Phenanthrenoid Alkaloids (e.g. gymnopusin) to Morphin. But of course this has nothing to say because of the structure-activity-paradox.
 
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Do you have a link to a written account of the experience you mentioned? I haven't seen anyone's words about their own experiences with it.
 
Thanks so much! I read the article (after putting it through Google translate, which did a better job than usual) and it sounds like the consensus is that it 9is rather cannabis-like, quite strong, less mentally disorienting. I'm going to paste the text of the translated article in here:

Inventory of the history of a "new" psychoactive plant

In 2004 I found out by a "random" bioassay that the orchid Dendrobium nobile (grape orchid) or a similar breed of this species has psychoactive properties. I have verified this in detail and then, in April 2005, published corresponding articles in various magazines. Today, 13 years later, preparations made from Dendrobium nobile (extract) are even distributed by smartshops as "strong intoxicating" products, eg from the Dutch smartshop Azarius as "Dance-E Happy Cap". An inventory of the short history of this "new" psychoactive plant.

Dendrobium nobile was completely unknown to ethnopharmacology as a psychoactivum until my discovery in 2004 - the plant has not been investigated pharmacologically or chemically adequately to date (apart from previous ingredient analyzes). The only known application of Dendrobium nobile comes from Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM) - but of course it was not or is not smoked there. Future research would have to uncover the details of this plant and its pharmacology, which is why I warn against overly euphoric use. Let's take a look at the history of the discovery of this psychoactive orchid.

The Beginning

The genus Dendrobium from the family Orchidaceae (Orchid Family) contains about 1500 species. Their home is Asia and Australia, where they grow epiphytic on other plants. From this genus we are interested in the species Dendrobium nobile and their closest relatives, as these - and this was a series of self-experiments according to the Heffter technique - clearly able to induce psychoactive effects. Caution: The species discussed must not be confused with the Dendrobium race of Phalaenopseen.

The whole plant contains terpene alkaloids and other ingredients, eg nobilin, nobilomethylene and nobilonin (DUKE 1992). With Nobilin, Dendrobium nobile contains the first alkaloid ever extracted from an orchid. It was discovered in 1932 by Japanese scientists. Dendrobium nobile played a major role in the alkaloid research of orchids.

Dendrobium nobile is one of the few orchids that is rich in alkaloids and used in traditional Chinese medicine. The species is cultivated as a medicinal plant in China. The drug, Herba Dendrobii, has been enjoyed for centuries by Taoist priests and the "Chinese elite" as an infusion drink Chin Shih Hu, sometimes daily. Both the whole plant and dried stems are used (single dose 6 to 15 grams). Dendrobium nobile is used as a tonic, antiphlogistic (anti-inflammatory drug), antitussive, saliva-inhibiting agent (among other things in the field of cancer), stomach and fever, it also stimulates the appetite. Dangers and side effects are not known.
The related species Dendrobium monielforme Kranzl., Dendrobium loddigesii Rolfe., Dendrobium candidum Wall. ex Lindl., Dendrobium chrysanthum Wall., Dendrobium officinale Kimura et Migo and Dendrobium fimbriatum Hook. var. oculatum hook. are also used in Chinese ethnomedicine.

Dried petals and leaves of Dendrobium nobile can be smoked. This is a circumstance which I discovered more or less by accident. A fallen and already dry flower caused me to put this into a (previously unused) whistle and smoke it out of sheer interest.

The flowers have a slight yet characteristic taste of orange peel - one could assume a nexus to the signature (in this case the orange petals).

Within fifteen minutes, there is a state of intoxication that is very similar to smoked hemp. (I may add that the various plants touted as cannabis substitutes - eg Leonotis leonurus (lion's ear), Nymphaea (water lily) and others - could never convince me.) The perception of the outside world and one's own state of mind are significantly changed. so it is sometimes difficult to locate objects that are directly in front of the eye of the intoxicated), the oral mucosa become dry, and it enters a state of exceptionally strong intoxication with subsequent physical heaviness, depending on the dosage, from mild to severe tiredness accompanied. The head tends to fall forward with the chin on the chest, and the eyes experience a transfigured dreamer's look, So a blurred vision. In addition, the Dendrobium effect accompanies an immense feeling of hunger, which on the one hand is also typical of hemp, on the other hand, has long been used within the TCM (but not in smoked form). After about half an hour, the symptoms disappear again completely. Optically, a dendrobium intoxicant is also typical. In some phases, the consumer looks as if he had enjoyed a dose of hemp (small and slightly reddish eyes), but sometimes as if he had amphetamine in the body (big eyes and pupils). If we did not know better, I would suggest that the plant contains cannabinoids and sympathomimetic compounds or analogues. However, it is noticeable that the content of active substance obviously varies greatly from plant to plant. For example, flowers of one dendrobium produce the described states of intoxication, whereas the same specimens of the same species do not appear to induce any effects. There is still a lot of room for future research. About the psychotropic effects of Dendrobium nobile is so far nothing known and published.

As far as the facts, as they represented 2004/2005.

The continuation

In 2014, ten years after my discovery of the psychoactivity of Dendrobium nobile, I then published my research on Youtube in my format Drug Education Agency (DEA) (episode 49), whereupon the psychonautical community started experimenting. On the one hand, this resulted in the plant being picked up as "Legal High" by Smartshops, and on the other hand, the finding that similar plants also induce psychoactive effects. Nevertheless, one should CAREFULLY exercise caution, since there is no knowledge about the pharmacology of smoked Dendrobium nobile.

Taxonomic classification

Although I had inquired exactly in 2004 about the taxonomic classification of the plant - I had bought the orchid in a garden market as Dendrobium nobile - corrected in the orchid art savvy readers in 2014 the species. An orchid friend noticed that the plant pictured was not a pure Dendrobium nobile, but the Stardust breed. The reader briefed me on the known ornamental plant species:
D. Stardust = D. unicum x D. ukon
D. Ukon = D. moniliforme x D. thwaitesiae
D. Thwaitesiae = D. ainsworthii x D. wiganiae
D. Wiganiae = D nobile x D. signatum
D. Ainsworthii = D. heterocarpum x D. nobile (Source: markusberger.info/blog/dendrobium-nobile/ )

Another reader, orchid breeder Marko (without surname), then corrected:

"I'm an orchid grower (not just a cultivator) and I'm getting more and more requests for pure Dendrobium nobile. Now I know why ... The flowers shown are of a Dendrobium nobile hybrid (in this case not "Stardust", but "Firebird"), but all commercially available plants have only small amounts of nobile in them. "(Ibid .)

Meanwhile, psychedelic underground experiments have shown that other hybrids sold as Dendrobium nobiles cause the psychoactive effects of being smoked or taken orally.

Testimonials from users

The quotes are taken from the forum www.salvia-community.net (all citations on markusberger.info/blog/dendrobium-nobile/ ) and partly aligned orthographically:

"I read the article on Dendrobium nobile on Psychotropicon a few weeks ago;
As an enthusiastic hobby gardener (...) I once went into the greenhouse and have gone through everything on existing orchids. And lo and behold - three Dendrobium nobile. Yesterday I plucked a few (6) half withered leaves (not even flowers!) And just dried on a heating cable at about 30 ? C.
I have just shredded three of them with a "spice mill" and snorkeled them through the good flower vase. Made pretty much 2 heads. Both are gone now (about 20 minutes). And I'm really excited about it. So far, nothing has struck so much in the beginning (in terms of all sorts of other, as "cannabis-like" advertised herbs). I really like the effect. I have a heavy, slightly oppressive feeling on my face and, above all, around my eyes, and feel quite elated and easy going (and that's not "normal" - I've just come home from work). So more like a HIGH, not like a STONED - except for the facial feeling. "

"Have 2 flowers dried and smoked (before 5-10min). Effect is definitely there! "

"I recently tried Dendrobium nobile orally. I started with a very low dosage, since cannabinoids are difficult to estimate orally from experience. I took 0.3 g of dried flower material, chewed it well and washed it down with water. After about 15 minutes, there was an effect, which is really similar to cannabis, even the pulse became a bit stronger, stronger than when smoking. Overall, it also has a distinctly oral stimulating effect. (...) The effect was gone after 45 minutes, because the dosage was very low. "

"The only orchid I have is a D. nobile. What a coincidence! I once started a bioassay and smoked half of the last two dried flowers on the plant in a pipe. After 5 minutes there is really a pretty strong, cannabis-like effect. I think it does not affect short-term memory that much. But really amazing! "

"Vaporization works too. I evaporated at 180 ? C and from the other half blossom a similar strong effect as yesterday. It may well be that there is more possible. "

"Earlier I tried Dendrobium nobile. I have divided 0.5 g of dried flowers on 2 bong heads and smoked deeply and quickly in a row. My first impression: positively surprised!
The drug has (...) an affinity to the cannabinoid receptors, there is no doubt, and much more so than the other herbs that have been offered as a cannabis alternative. "

"On Thursday I tested the combination Dendrobium nobile + nicotine. Not bad. As expected, the desired bodyload also started. Although it does not come to the potent cannabinoids ran, but it was quite Cannabinoidtypisch all noticeable. It's not mature yet, but we're getting closer to a banned smoking mixture.
(...) Cannabinoids + 10-15 henbane seeds gives a demonic-mystical thoughtflash. "

"Half a blossom was already a good dose for me. 180 mg of dried stem actually already too much. "

"As far as I can tell so far, Dendrobium nobile is reasonably compatible. I did not feel any physical side effects. "

"I think this plant in the current state of knowledge for a lot of promising, but difficult to assess. We do not even know what effects and side effects are possible, let alone which substance is responsible for the effect (...). "

"At least you can say that Dendrobium is apparently psychoactive in all parts of the plant. If there are flowers and stems, you can assume that they are the leaves as well. And 100 mg is already a clue. "

"I have a plant from the same cultivar DN in any case and, if the same genetics as mine, highly potent!"

"The DN mixture is gentle, soft-flowing, yet clearly cannabinoid-like."

"I can report that the scion is very potent."

"From my own experience I can say that the leaves are definitely effective. If I take one and burn it in the pipe, I am sufficiently served. "

"Yes, leaves are definitely also potent. I have already tested both, leaves and flowers. The potency is about the same. "

"What I can definitely say is that it works on the cannabinoid receptors (...). The effect is exactly the same as that of cannabis and incense, but much milder. "

"... some varieties of the current Happy Caps contain a DN extract. For example in the White Party-E. "

Safer Use

An important safer use hint came from the already cited orchid breeder Marko: "If you come to the funnel to order them in Asia, you should know that there are hardly any real nobile there either. Besides, I really can not recommend anything that comes from Asian greenhouses without putting on gloves, let alone smoking or taking anything else. Especially in China and Taiwan, where the crops are mainly located, hammering is used to produce crop protection in unbelievable concentrations. These funds are banned by us for a good reason. In addition, antibiotics are used in rough amounts. So please, for the sake of your health, buy some of the hybrids available in all stores in Germany and let them stay with you for at least half a year, before you consume it. The plants come almost exclusively from three Dutch companies, which operate solely because of the now everywhere carried out controls largely non-toxic / less toxic plant protection. Nevertheless, you should still wait until any funds used have diminished. Finally, their approval was not given for consumption by inhalation. Before use, the surface should also be thoroughly washed in order to remove any pesticides that have been applied against snails. to remove their] residues. "( Nevertheless, you should still wait until any funds used have diminished. Finally, their approval was not given for consumption by inhalation. Before use, the surface should also be thoroughly washed in order to remove any pesticides that have been applied against snails. to remove their] residues. "( Nevertheless, you should still wait until any funds used have diminished. Finally, their approval was not given for consumption by inhalation. Before use, the surface should also be thoroughly washed in order to remove any pesticides that have been applied against snails. to remove their] residues. "(markusberger.info/blog/dendrobium-nobile/ )

Apparently it is used in traditional Chinese medicine and extracts have shown up in "smart shops" as intoxicants.
 
i tried a 100:1 dendrobium nobile extract sample i got yesterday and had 0 effect. snorted most of it and smoked the rest. expected at least some effect as i read some reports which all described a light but recognizable effect.
 
Interesting stuff. What this does make me think of is Adaptation - one of my favorite Charlie Kaufman movies where some of the characters get high by insufflating ground up Ghost Orchid. Not technically accurate but truly mind blowing.
 
Just was going through threads to assign prefixes and came across this again... anyone have anything to add? I'm still interested. Looking at you, @G_Chem ;)
 
Just was going through threads to assign prefixes and came across this again... anyone have anything to add? I'm still interested. Looking at you, @G_Chem ;)

Well it just so happens that psychoactive orchid I was playing with before also contains these phenathrenoids. Cypripedium acaule.

I’ve actually been meaning to give it a try again. (Got an important event in less than 2wks that’s had me holding off many experiments the past half a year.) The compounds are found as the glycosides initially but can lose that sugar-bond if subjected to hydrolysis. I’ve both dried material and extract in tincture, both have been sitting for 6mos hoping to have lost at least some of the glycosidic bond. I could always “force” it along too with a dilute base solution but for future tests.

The reason I think this is important, the phenathrenoids found in Cypripedium acaule are definitely worthy psychoactives. But the headache that comes along is too much. I believe this headache is due to the compounds being in glycoside form. If we look at other glycosides (like those found in Stevia or Gingko) we see headaches are a common side effect.

I know we can’t talk chemistry but I believe these compounds are not far away from opioids in structure. They resemble certain opiate intermediates to me, and I wonder with a little further tweaking we couldn’t see some novel opiates come from these.

I’ll report back if I can get the headache dropped from the equation cuz honestly it’s got a lot of potential. Dream inducing, sexual, euphoric, I see why early pioneers took to it. They always dried it though from my reading, which could be one way they broke the glycoside bond.

-GC
 
Thanks! I went back and re-read this, and had forgotten that I posted that translated German paper in here. And apparently totally forgot because it was like reading it for the first time. Definitely sounds promising. Too bad orchids are slow growing... we have about 30 of them of many different varieties (not including Dendrobium nobile), and I would be loathe to harm one for the purposes of a cannabis-like intoxication. However saving the flowers and flower stalks after they start to die and drying them would definitely be doable.
 
Thanks! I went back and re-read this, and had forgotten that I posted that translated German paper in here. And apparently totally forgot because it was like reading it for the first time. Definitely sounds promising. Too bad orchids are slow growing... we have about 30 of them of many different varieties (not including Dendrobium nobile), and I would be loathe to harm one for the purposes of a cannabis-like intoxication. However saving the flowers and flower stalks after they start to die and drying them would definitely be doable.

This is the biggest drawback to orchids as psychoactives. How slow growing they are… In fact the more commonly known of Cypripedium species from the west coast, C. pubescens, used for psychoactive purposes has become endangered from early pioneers using it.

This is why I chose to work with Cypripedium acaule. It’s not endangered and can be found locally in the Midwest. It had very little info regarding psychoactivity but I found enough to dive in.

One other thing to note is just how potent these orchids seem. I only bought 3 tiny bulbs, and this seems to be many many doses. So long as the substances within can hold up to storage, and people aren’t wasteful, I think it’s a viable source.

In a month or less I hope to give this another try :) plus I’ve got some other really exciting stuff in store for BL in the near future too!

-GC
 
more than a little exciting, I wont be here in 100 years but I would like to say hi to all those reading this then 👋
 
This is the biggest drawback to orchids as psychoactives. How slow growing they are… In fact the more commonly known of Cypripedium species from the west coast, C. pubescens, used for psychoactive purposes has become endangered from early pioneers using it.

This is why I chose to work with Cypripedium acaule. It’s not endangered and can be found locally in the Midwest. It had very little info regarding psychoactivity but I found enough to dive in.

One other thing to note is just how potent these orchids seem. I only bought 3 tiny bulbs, and this seems to be many many doses. So long as the substances within can hold up to storage, and people aren’t wasteful, I think it’s a viable source.

In a month or less I hope to give this another try :) plus I’ve got some other really exciting stuff in store for BL in the near future too!

-GC

I love your little known plant explorations! Excited to see what you have to share.

I love orchids, my girlfriend has about 30, like I said. We've had some of them for going on 5 years. She's an orchid whisperer... and I've taken care of them for 4-6 weeks at a time in the past when she used to go trim buds in Cali in the Fall. I feel very connected to them, they're beautiful and majestic plants, that have a distinct presence, like how trees do, but much different and, well, smaller.

It would be really profound for me to be able to consume a small portion of one and see what it has to say in my brain. I don't think we have any of the psychoactive ones but we certainly can look for one. I think I'll wait to see what you have to say about it first, though.
 
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