Opioids Ending heavy tramadol / kratom use

[Ace23]

Hi everyone at Bluelight

I was active here a long time ago and was really impressed with the community here. Great to see Bluelight still going strong. Right now I've got a difficult situation and would greatly appreciate people's thoughts please.

I quit using (overusing actually) prescribed Tramadol for pain, which became an established addiction over about 18 months. But I only quit the drug, not the addiction, as I replaced it with Kratom. Now I expect many opiate addicts and ex addicts consider Kratom a very lightweight opioid with limited addiction potential and I respect that view entirely. I used to think the same exclusively and still do in general. But it seems that in my case when I try to stop Kratom I suffer withdrawal very much like I had from Tramadol when trying and failing cold turkey. Fear, flu like symptoms, cramps, inability to interact with family (very important as I'm responsible for a child). I couldn't quite believe it when first trying to stop Kratom and I suspect much of the problem is now psychological. But it doesn't make things any easier knowing this. The physical and behavioural symptoms are just as real.

In the next few days I'm entering a situation in which I will have no access to Kratom at all. Mercifully, it comes at a time when there will be lots of other care around for my kid. However, I'm not looking forward to the experience at all. I've tried to reduce my usage with some success, but I'm still going to step off from approx 35g a day in about 6 doses to zero, from one day to the next.

I know my problem is puny compared to strong opioids, but it's still something I could use some input on. I'm wondering if there's anyone out there who has had something similar happen and how things went for them.

Thanks for reading. Best wishes everyone.
Ace23

 

[Zerwas]

Taper down before quitting! 35g/day is about the double of what I take and I get nasty WDs too. Also get some Gabapentin or Lyrica since they help a lot with eliminating withdrawal symptoms especially from lighter opioids. Some Benzos would be helpful too but not too much.
As well as Loperamide against the potential shits, multivitamins, Magnesium/calcium etc.

I have not much time at the moment but I will write some more after work.

 

[Ace23]

Taper down before quitting! 35g/day is about the double of what I take and I get nasty WDs too. Also get some Gabapentin or Lyrica since they help a lot with eliminating withdrawal symptoms especially from lighter opioids. Some Benzos would be helpful too but not too much.
As well as Loperamide against the potential shits, multivitamins, Magnesium/calcium etc.

I have not much time at the moment but I will write some more after work.

Thanks for the advice. Yes, I will try to taper as much as poss in the next 48 hours - that's all the time I have before leaving my supply behind. I've been sticking my head in the sand over this, convincing myself I'll, I dunno, buy some there, or send myself some. Multivits check. Ca/Mg check. Too late to get Gabapentin or Benzos. But should be able to get some OTC sleep aids once I'm there - yeah I know, not great but better than nothing. I'm on Citalopram as well so must keep my dose regular.

Up until the weekend I was taking 7-10g 5-7 times a day. So have reduced loads. It's not weak crap either. I've used Kratom on an off for nearly 10 years so I know what's good. I use strong (but not-enhanced) leaf with an occasional bit of extract. Used to think it was impossible to get addicted to Kratom as 1, people normally space doses out to avoid tolerance and 2 if you take too much you just hurl! But I'm an easy addict (already kicked alcohol with difficulty) and after kicking the Tramadol I let the Kratom just slip into its place, with regular doses which predictably increased with tolerance. It's doing two jobs really, replacing Tramadol and Booze.

I know I'm a fool for letting it get like this. But that's what chronic addictive personalities (self-diagnosed) do. And withdrawing next week is still better than what would be happening if I was still drinking/popping pain meds.

Thanks again for the help Zerwas. Catch you later.

 

[Zerwas]

Hey Ace23,

I would try to not only lower your dose each intake but also the intervals over the next two days. Like 4-5g's 4 times a day.
Also if you take OTC sleep aids like Benadryl (Diphenhydramine) be aware that they can increase the restless legs caused by the withdrawal so only take low doses.
Promethazine is a better option from my experience.

And I think that Kratom is a "better" addiction than Tramadol or even Alcohol. Tramadol with its nasty effects on serotonin causes a pretty unpleasant withdrawal so you are better of kicking Kratom than quitting directly from Tramadol.

You could prepare yourself over the next two days by getting some easy to make food and lots of healthy liquids as well as getting lots of shirts and maybe bed sheets ready for the sweats.

Take care and report here if you like. I guess others will chime in and give you more advice. Good luck dude!

Z

 

[HeadHigh]

Im going through a smaller kratom addiction taper myself right now, and i have found that Black Cumin Seed Oil is really helpful for fighting some of the withdrawal symptoms and cravings

 

[Ace23]

Thanks Zerwas. Great to have some support on this. I had a similar situation in July and basically didn't sleep for 10 days. I was stunned that Kratom gave me such strong wds. You're right, not as bad as Tramadol; I could still function just, but my mood was all over the place and woah, the RLS was just as strong as Tramadol wd. I found that avoiding caffeine and sugar helped a bit with RLS.

Man those days are gonna suck! But it's worth it. Spending too much on it anyway.
Cheers

 

[Ace23]

Im going through a smaller kratom addiction taper myself right now, and i have found that Black Cumin Seed Oil is really helpful for fighting some of the withdrawal symptoms and cravings

Interesting - never knew this. Looks like a good call HeadHigh. Hey, just found a quote from - apparently - the prophet Muhammed: "Use the Black Seed, because it contains a cure for every type of ailment, except for death."

I'm getting me some of that! (Not because of the religious association - I'm not religious)

Thank you.

 

[HeadHigh]

it doesnt taste too great, but its a cheap and healthy withdrawal tool, and if you mix it with something like lemon juice, it masks the flavor almost entirely

 

[Rachella666]

Hey Ace23,

I would try to not only lower your dose each intake but also the intervals over the next two days. Like 4-5g's 4 times a day.
Also if you take OTC sleep aids like Benadryl (Diphenhydramine) be aware that they can increase the restless legs caused by the withdrawal so only take low doses.
Promethazine is a better option from my experience.

And I think that Kratom is a "better" addiction than Tramadol or even Alcohol. Tramadol with its nasty effects on serotonin causes a pretty unpleasant withdrawal so you are better of kicking Kratom than quitting directly from Tramadol.

You could prepare yourself over the next two days by getting some easy to make food and lots of healthy liquids as well as getting lots of shirts and maybe bed sheets ready for the sweats.

Take care and report here if you like. I guess others will chime in and give you more advice. Good luck dude!

Z

Great info there, I agree with promethazine for anxiety, rls , nausea and flu like symptoms, and Panadol night for sleep. They save me when I run out of Opiates and benzos. Wishing you the best OP! Xxx

 

[manboychef]

I would watch out for the OTC sleep aids. Melatonin is your best bet. The zquil, and other "natural sleep aids" will just leave you awake and make you feel horrible in the morning. I didn't sleep for the first month in rehab but a few hours here and there....I got a lot of reading done. Bring some good books. I suggest the Stand by stephen king. It is very engrossing.

You can do this man!

 

[Ace23]

Yeah I had that with some herbal sleep aids in Italy. So unpredictable. These messages are all meaning heaps to me everyone. Thanks so much. ManBoy, I've read the stand and yeah engrossing but a bit fucked up for during wd with me. I had a couple of bad acid trips as a teen which normally doesn't affect me now, except when wding! But yes, good books of King quality are a must. Thanks again all. Keep em coming!

 

[manboychef]

You should read "still life with woodpecker" by tom robbins.....fantastic read

 

[Zerwas]

Hey Ace23, how are you doing?

 

[Ace23]

Hi Zerwas, thanks for asking. I'm ok thanks. Woke up with restless legs and arms/chest you know when you just want to do weights to keep you sane. But I've got a very small amount of tramadol left over from quitting. So sleep is assured as long as I don't fuck up and blow the lot in one blast, which is tempting, especially here. Have you ever cursed your inner greedy druggy, laying awake at night thinking 'if only I'd saved that last bit for when I needed it'? Keep thinking 'I'll just hit them for some fun', but it's not about fun - it's about getting some sleep every night. Tweaking loads and there's alcohol here too which is very tempting but that just makes things worse in the end.

So I'm good thanks, but this week's starting better than it'll end I'm sure.

EDIT: So had some alcohol on the shtum to keep the bats out of my belfry. Shitty thing to do as I'm surrounded by people who love me when I'm sober and hate me when I'm pissed. That means acting sober. The other problem is refraining from banging all my trams in one go. Not easy when you're easy. I fucking love mind-altering substances, but they do tend to get in the way of relationships.

How are you Zerwas, thanks for keeping in touch.
Cheers
A23

 

[Ace23]

Just reading through the thread helps me loads. Thanks for the support. Yesterday turned into a limited-impact bender with only a little hangover. So not too bad. Still have some trams left amazingly. Not many though. Saving for nighttime so tweaking during the day and trying to beat the temptation. Clearly not something I'm good at. I'm sure most times I've indulged in something I really shouldn't are just to shut that noisy fucker up who's badgering me from the inside. Gets to look so much like a win-win - as the noisy fucker gets what they want and I get some peace. Meh. Anyway - holding it together so far.

Reading 'The Graveyard Book' by Neil Gaiman. Very good. So much for not reading fucked up shit! I'm going to seek out that Robbins book though, ManBoy - when I can.

EDIT: Lower GI symptoms starting to kick in. Blurgh.

 

[Ace23]

Im going through a smaller kratom addiction taper myself right now, and i have found that Black Cumin Seed Oil is really helpful for fighting some of the withdrawal symptoms and cravings

Hi HeadHigh, how's your one going?

 

[Zerwas]

How are you Zerwas, thanks for keeping in touch.

Well, I am again on 0,5mg of Buprenorphine and cant kick until 10th November because of my dads birthday which annoys me.
But doing ok otherwise. Thinking about ordering some more Kratom for next week, we'll see.
I know its gonna be minimum 3 days of puking and feeling like absolute shit so I am not looking forward to this but I will taper as far as I can to maybe avoid the heavy stomach problems.

 

[Ace23]

Never used bupe - stronger than morphine, right? 0.5g - what ROA?

Guess it's a bastard on cold turkey. Docs always recommend moving to lighter opioids as part of a structured taper. Not easy though when self-medicating - unless you're someone with iron will. Moving to Kratom would probably be a good move after you've reduced the bupe to minimum and continued to taper using tramadol. But if you're completely undisciplined like me and leave big holes in your supply from over use, the Kratom probably would ease wd symptoms. Expect you know all this anyway!

 

[Zerwas]

Yeah it is much stronger but also only a partial agonist. I insufflate ~0,5mg every morning. I do not have access to Tramadol and even if I had, I wouldn't take it because the SNRI effects make me feel like shit for 2-3 days afterwards.

And yeah, I did quit using Kratom before but now it feels like it is harder than last time. So I will continue until after my family obligations and then quit the Bupre jumping off the 0,5mg or even less (its a very small dose, usually former Heroin addicts and such take at least 8mg, but it still is enough to make me hurt...).

Have a nice sunday dude.

 

[mysafehome01]

Of all the drugs I've came across in my life and developed addictions to, Tramadol HAS to be the absolute worst. The withdrawl is absolute hell and the risks with taking Tramadol, especially at higher doses are not nice. I suffered a huge seizure (out for 5 - 10 minutes) woke up surrounded by my family (whom I didn't recognise) in a state of total confusion and pain.

So please, just be careful with it dude I know how hard it is to kick, even with an iron will it's an absolute cunt to kick.

Stay safe dude.