Site Feedback End the bots (idea?)

Snafu in the Void

Moderator: NMI Bukowski Jr.
Staff member
Joined
May 27, 2020
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These bot spammers are getting ridiculous.

Can't we just add some sort of captcha or bot check at new member registration to counter this?

I would imagine these bots have xenforo software registration/posting pre programmed.
 
We have a whole bunch of things to help filter out bots. Much of the spam you see on site is from real people sitting in low pay spam farms in India/Pakistan and Ukraine and churning out links spam.

As for pre-modding, it would be a massive overhead that staff wouldn't realistically be able to keep up with and that would prevent new users from asking/receiving timely answers to HR questions. It also wouldn't really help as the linkspammers keep evolving and have learnt to post 'good' posts for a while, and then go back and edit links back into their old posts weeks or even months later.
 
Much of the spam you see on site is from real people sitting in low pay spam farms in India/Pakistan and Ukraine and churning out links spam.

I forgot about them. I started an ill-fated SEO company many years ago and they were the low cost competition with an army of kids they paid $1/hr :(
 
Yeah, still not bot proof, though, to my knowledge.

Creating a custom question like "what is the 2nd to last letter in our name" can be somewhat effective for a time
Well, yeah it kinda makes the difference between a good bot and a bad bot.
A good bot gets through Recaptcha easily, but a bad bot won't,
hence why I just thought it might be a small solution for the time being, cause I'm not sure if anyone would pay for proper Captchas.

It's not like this site is getting DDos attacks or truly flooded, or something, yknow
 
As for pre-modding, it would be a massive overhead that staff wouldn't realistically be able to keep up with
i dispute this. currently for each spammer, usually one mod has to temp ban the user, but often can't delete the thread, so then another mod has to do that. i think it would be less overhead than we currently have, as only one mod would
and that would prevent new users from asking/receiving timely answers to HR questions.
i can't really see any urgent HR need for questions about the keto diet or CBD oil being answered.
It also wouldn't really help as the linkspammers keep evolving and have learnt to post 'good' posts for a while, and then go back and edit links back into their old posts weeks or even months later.
this is more of an issue, but my proposal would have prevented the front of the forum being full of spam this morning.
 
Pre-modding means all new people would be prevented from asking questions, not just CBD oil/keto diet spambots. It also means the approval queue would balloon to hundreds or thousands of posts every day from new members, all of which would need to be approved by staff individually. It is of course possible, but arguably a bit like using a sledgehammer to crack a walnut, and very much depends on the consistent 24/7 presence and activity of staff, for which we already don't always have the best track record (hence the forum full of spambots).
 
Pre-modding means all new people would be prevented from asking questions, not just CBD oil/keto diet spambots.
Yeah, not a good idea. Some of the most critical, time sensitive harm reduction is towards brand new members first post.

Keywords is good idea. Nobody gonna hurt themselves with Morgan Freeman CBD or a south beach diet.
 
i proposed putting in pre moderation (so need staff approval prior to publication) if users with fewer than 10 posts use certain key words, e.g CBD, keto, etc but not sure if its possible.

Ah sorry chinup, I didn't fully absorb what you posted here, my bad 😶 We aren't actually able to filter key words like that in the approval process. If we could, then your idea would be great. Unfortunately the system we have would just block everyone from posting without the ability to discriminate any words they use.

I really do appreciate how frustrating and embarrassing the spam issue can be. When I was admin I can assure you we were always trying to find ways to reduce the problem and we do use quite a few tools to try and stop them. But they are certainly a pesky nuisance and hard to completely prevent.
 
@CFC

Interesting Xenforo solution I found for bots. It injects extra checkboxes into fields that are invisible to a human user, but the bots will see and fill out. When these fields are filled, the registration will still go through successfully, into no index however, which appeases the bot into thinking it's registered but it's really not. This isn't a solution to human spammers though if that's really what the problem is.


Pre-modding means all new people would be prevented from asking questions, not just CBD oil/keto diet spambots. It also means the approval queue would balloon to hundreds or thousands of posts every day from new members, all of which would need to be approved by staff individually. It is of course possible, but arguably a bit like using a sledgehammer to crack a walnut, and very much depends on the consistent 24/7 presence and activity of staff, for which we already don't always have the best track record (hence the forum full of spambots).

I rummaged around in Xenforo forums and found these instructions to stop members with less than 10 posts from posting links.

1. Configure your Spam Management section (ACP > Options > Spam Management).
2. Set Maximum messages to check for spam to: 10
3. Add the following spam phrases:
/^http(|s):\/\/\S+/si - This prevents anything with http:// or https:// from being posted.
www - This prevents anything with www. from being posted.
*//* - This prevents http// or any other attempt to bypass your phrases.


Those two things would solve the issue.
 
When I was admin

Whoa, what the fuck. You're a lowly peasant. <3=D

Where are the spammers posting these days?
we were always trying to find ways to reduce the problem and we do use quite a few tools to try and stop them. But they are certainly a pesky nuisance and hard to completely prevent.

Too right; we won the heroic victory against the masturbation trolls in SLR, and I've got that on my curriculum vitae. So they moved to meth masturbation/perversion thread, then got banned, whinged for a bit and eventually fucked off... just by limiting the SLR posts to bluelighters and blocking greenlighters.

Bluelight actually ranks really high for sex related searches because of all of this. There was a persistent troll called out by kaden knight with the same old bullshit theme about erotic love and loss in a myriad of different iterations which kind of helped trigger the issue need resolving. Some were just men wanking themselves silly, some just weird erotic story iterations, some very clever SEO, some link spam for sex toys; but the key thread was that they were always absolutely rubbing themselves raw, I'm sure of it. I even remember one post where somebody was offering to trade something very, very naughty and unspeakable.

Anyway, if SLR still blocks them that's why they might go in NMI, if they're of the masturbation variety that is. I'm not sure if any other forums block greenlighters.

Preventing link dropping is a good idea, but I'd keep a check that most of them actually have less than 10 posts. IIRC you'd get the odd 2002 account etc, presumably using long compromised passwords. Or sometimes they'd also auto-spam to bluelighter status, and it could be fun deleting their posts so they can't quite reach it and confusing them, if you get bored.
 
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To add my .02

As CFC stated, we DO have some measures in place. The number of posts you guys see arriving pales in comparison to the number of accounts filtered out by our current software and add-ons. There are a handful of new accounts that get held for admin review (approve-kill) which we deal with daily. Then there are the damn few that make it all the way through to being activated and then spam us. These are traditionally real people that can pass most spam tests. The point here being we aren't exactly running with our pants down.

Second, we've got procedures in place to deal with such things. We typically request mods to only act in their assigned forums, but for a spammer they are encouraged to issue a warning wherever the spam occurs and the account is immediately suspended. This is to prevent further spam posts and generally catches such an account within the first few such posts. With our large community, members are very quick to Report Post (RP) such things to staff attention. With roughly 40ish staff members, we generally act on them quickly. What this doesn't do a good job of is cleaning up that post right at that moment (again, acting outside their forums).

The reason we allow mods to issue a warning that suspends the accounts, rather than ban, is in case there is a mistake in interpreting the post (generally there isn't, but a second set of eyes doesn't hurt). Additionally, we don't allow regular mods to ban anyone (lest we have member-mod issues that lead to abuse of power). Sr. Mods and Admin can ban, and for cases like these we typically use a SPAM tool that adds the offending accounts meta data (username, email address, IPs) to the great SPAM database in the sky. That db is shared by sites all over the world so with enough submissions, the site SPAM add-ons automatically ban registrations using those criteria (see the first paragraph).

Bottom line, we're not overrun. The occurrences are annoying, but few; and they are dealt with relatively quickly. This isn't' to say we're good where we are at, as improvement is always encouraged, and suggestions are welcome.

@CFC

Interesting Xenforo solution I found for bots.

CFC is no longer on staff. He's just more smart and charming than most of us on staff. Perhaps the 'smart' part has something to do with his moving to 'crew'. Don't count on him doing things, but it's always great to bounce ideas off him and get his input.

Your two suggestions, however, are intriguing. I'll check into them as they should be relatively easy to implement. Thank you very much for finding them.
 
@CFC

Interesting Xenforo solution I found for bots. It injects extra checkboxes into fields that are invisible to a human user, but the bots will see and fill out. When these fields are filled, the registration will still go through successfully, into no index however, which appeases the bot into thinking it's registered but it's really not. This isn't a solution to human spammers though if that's really what the problem is.




I rummaged around in Xenforo forums and found these instructions to stop members with less than 10 posts from posting links.




Those two things would solve the issue.

Nice find mate :)

I suspect it wouldn't entirely solve the problem since it's probably not going to prevent post editing in the links, which spammers have already learnt to do, and/or the spammers will just wait until they've exceeded the 10 (or whatever) message limit and then drop in the links. We already battle spammers that churn out semi-convincing posts for sometimes months on end before revealing their true nature. They can also just as easily advertise their sites without the actual links, or use special characters to create the word "CBD" or whatever that the system isn't going to recognise - it's basically a neverending war ;)

But it certainly may be able to help and I'm sure admin will check things out when they get a chance. I do agree with TLB that on the whole, the spam issue, though annoying at times, is still pretty well controlled most of the time, in the sense that we catch the vast majority of them and most folks here are none the wiser about their constant efforts.
 
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Yeah they're usually reported pretty much instantly from what I remember, then pretty much instantly banned once a mod spots them. Often somebody else would ban them before you could get to them. It's fairly streamlined considering the sheer amount and nature of bots attacking forums etc.
 
I have reported quite a few recently, one thing I have noticed consistent with them all is that they are all greenlighters with 1 post.........Why not deny greenlighters the post links ability.
 
I have reported quite a few recently, one thing I have noticed consistent with them all is that they are all greenlighters with 1 post.........Why not deny greenlighters the post links ability.

My guess is they would just post the links, the links just wouldn't have link formatting. But the underlying problem would remain.

It's a really frustrating problem. I find it especially outrageous all this spam for cannabis products being made to a drug support site.

The staff more than probably anyone would love to be rid of it because it uses up a good chunk of our time.
 
Could it be made that when we give the spammer a temp ban that we can then delete the offending post even if it’s not in our forum. As in, temp banning them opens up their posts to be deleted by all the mods. It would get rid of the link immediately whilst leaving it that it could be restored should the action have been carried out incorrectly.
 
The only incorrect action was temp banning a spammer. @MsDiz

It would be easier to create an appeal forum, where of theres even a shadow of a doubt on banning a spammer, to move them to a group which can only see the appeals forum. If theyre a bot this will be catastrophic when they be bots or if theres a real boy with a real nose on the other side Ill say hell no spammer.

Then we delete the appeal forum, discontinue the system and Ive had my laugh of the half a day.
 
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