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  • Trip Reports Moderator: Xorkoth

Elemicin/Elemi Oil - Stunning Third Time - Truly High Definition

Ericjones03

Bluelighter
Joined
Apr 3, 2018
Messages
38
Some background information on me: I'm a 21 year old male, weighing 165 pounds, and have recently been experimenting with about all of the (mainly RX and RC) drugs I can get my hands on while being relatively safe at the same time- meaning I'm not one to overdose on any substance just to feel more or even feel it in the first place (examples being CPM mixed with dxm, hydro/oxycodone and acetaminophen, etc.) My 'trial period' of drugs has led me to do plenty of hours, days in total rather, of research on just what all is out there. I've pursued about everything that seemed even slightly interesting to me, which is why I decided to give elemi oil a try, especially seeing all the many mixed reviews on all of the other forums, all under one single thread about one single report. One of the main reasons I'm sitting here right now typing this report is that throughout my research on elemi oil, I couldn't find a single experience entry on Erowid that was solely for elemicin, as well as only one post or so about it deep down in Bluelight. While the results of my search may have been a lack of searching on my part, but I feel that I looked a good bit for sure, and hope that this information can be helpful to others out there looking too.

First off, before starting my report, I want to state that my long search for experience reports and other information throughout various forums led me to find one poster in particular who, a long time after his reports on elemi oil were published, was accused of creating false reports to market products. I'm not saying this to further accuse him or attempt to clear his name either, I'm simply putting this out there to do my best in explaining to all readers that I 1) am not involved in anything similar to what the other user may or may not have been doing and 2) am not writing this to convince people to try my dose or even what I did it all, as there's no research whatsoever done on its safety. However, while I won't ever recommend the use of any drugs to any person, if you're reading this and do/plan to do drugs- that being anything at all, not just limited to elemi oil of course- please be safe and do your research, plenty of it beforehand. Now that that's finished, I'll begin.

At around 3:30 PM on a nice day in late August, 2018, I took my dose of Elemi Oil orally with a few mouthfuls of sparkling water. After that and changing clothes, the time now being somewhere around 3:45, I headed outside to the car with my dad to go work out. I've had 2 past experiences with Elemi Oil (both being within a month of this experience) and each of those times it took a minimum of 30 minutes for me to feel any effects at all and a couple hours for me to reach the peak, that for some reason wasn't the case this time. As I was walking to the car, time seemed to slow down just enough where the shift was noticeable, and I looked around and noticed my point of view of everything to be slightly distorted, my main focus was on the sky and trees during that short walk to the car. The sky was what seemed a perfect balance of grey and white clouds and the trees seemed to just be popping out of their place- making it seem like I was looking at everything on a 4k tv- and this continued throughout the rest of the trip as well. As I was in the car, I noticed a slight feeling of disassociation and was more interested in looking around at my 'enhanced surroundings' than interacting with anyone or anything. When I arrived at the gym, I went through my normal routine and focused as much as I could on just working out, not looking around in order to not draw any suspicion to me and also to just finish my workout. When I finished my workout, I realized that it felt as though time had gone by super fast, but also like it could have been a good 6 hours later- this is hard to explain, but if you've had a similar experience, then you'll definitely know what I'm talking about. I left the gym and sat in my car at 4:45, my dad still had some more of his sets to finish so I decided to begin typing up this report. My dad made his way to the car and I finished the report up to this point at 5:00, we left the gym at that time as well. I got home at 5:10, and on my way in from the car, I noticed that it was raining and the water moving down th
e pavement was moving in fascinating waves, that mixed with the wet grass and trees looked no different than a painting would. It was now raining a decent amount (just stating this to emphasize that this aspect was new in my experience) and that much rain getting on me would normally make me feel uncomfortable or get on my nerves, but I simply felt at peace this time. When I got back inside, my dad started talking to my mom in the kitchen and I just sat at the table and did nothing other than add more to this report while they talked for 15 minutes (time: 5:25.) After they finished, in order to not have to mask the effects I was feeling, I retreated to the safety of my room where I decided it would be a good idea to watch a movie for a while. Also, since it's been a good 2 hours since consumption now, I'll go ahead and list what all I've felt effect-wise. My 'high' hasn't changed immensely since the very beginning when I was outside, but I will note that as I've gone along, I've felt a steadily increasing sense of disassociation, I've had a decent amount of difficulty thinking about and focusing on more than one thing at a time (an example being everything else beyond my phone screen seems to fade out while typing this), and also I've experienced some slight itching as one would get from opiates, but the itches were very, very mild while I had them and didn't seem to last long either. An hour's passed since starting the movie, the time being 6:30 now, the only change I've felt is that after staring at the screen for long enough, I'll start to feel a slight spinning sensation both in my head and body (note that while this was a pleasant feeling to me, not everyone would feel the same from it.) Other than that, I've experienced no more changes in effects, everything is relatively the same as the last time I logged, so nothing else to add there. I'll probably plan on waiting until another hour is up before adding anything else (unless there's something worth mentioning right away) and then continuing to do so until I feel the effects starting to go away.

Edit: from 7:30 until 10:30 (I ended up falling to sleep a little after 11 PM) there was no substantial change or notes necessary to be included in my report, so I've omitted them, as they were pretty much me stating the same thing over and over. I started feeling the effects decline slightly after 10:30 and while it wasn't all gone by the time I fell asleep, it definitely wasn't there when I woke up, but I experienced no hangover or other bad 'side effects' either. Overall, I couldn't really give elemi oil an honest total rating as compared to all drugs I've messed with-while it was a great experience, it was also a very different one from most things I've ever used, and has a very mystical aspect to it. One thing I do have to say is that just like I read many times while searching for experiences, I felt a lot of properties from this that are very similar to LSD and other psychedelics and it was also very 'enhancing' of my surroundings like marijuana can do for some users. I hope that this report can clear up some of the newfound stigma towards using this substance after the events concerning the previous poster occurred, as I believe that it could prove to be something very powerful, useful, and absolutely worth studying the psychoactive effects it has- even though many claim that the amount of elemicin contained in Nutmeg doesn't contribute to the psychoactivity felt during that high.

Tagged by Xorkoth
substancecode_elemicin
explevel_inexperienced
exptype_positive
roacode_oral
 
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You just swallowed Elemi essential oil? If so, the dose?
Wow, I messed up on that, I tweaked this report a tiny bit (just grammatical errors) before posting on here, I'd originally uploaded it to Erowid where it'll be published soon, I listed the dose at the beginning of the report then. It was precisely 1 ml of undiluted, 100% pure therapeutic grade elemi oil. If you have any other questions about the report, feel free to ask. And yes, I simply swallowed the essential oil orally, followed by sparkling water- something much more flavorful would have been a much better choice, as the taste of the oil is pretty bad, however, it's absolutely bearable IMO.
 
Welcome! =) Glad to have you here and thanks for the contribution!

I remember learning about the possible psychoactivity of elemicin a few years ago. It seemed like a fascinating topic. After I started digging deep, however, I became concerned.

While the psychoactivity of alkenylbenzenes was putative, their liver toxicity had solid experimental evidence. That durned benzene ring was at it again. Metabolized and then set loose in the liver, just a single large dose exposure to myristicin, elemicin, dramatically increased the risk of liver cancer in its usual way - chopping up DNA strands like a razorblade the thickness of a single carbon atom. While I'm inclined to take worries about free benzene produced by hepatic metabolism with a grain of salt, the science here seemed simple, solid, and most importantly backed up by empirical evidence. Needless to say, I decided it wasn't worth the health risk to test out the essential oils themselves, sticking to their future forms as phenethylamine synths. I wish it wasn't so, but that was my cost-benefit analysis on the matter. All of the research is in the public domain if you want to dig, although it's not as straightforward as it should be. I've posted about this on other forums - let me up some Googling and see if I can find some old citations.
 
The other forum has changed its design and I can't find my old references, but this was the first Google scholar result

 
Welcome! =) Glad to have you here and thanks for the contribution!

I remember learning about the possible psychoactivity of elemicin a few years ago. It seemed like a fascinating topic. After I started digging deep, however, I became concerned.

While the psychoactivity of alkenylbenzenes was putative, their liver toxicity had solid experimental evidence. That durned benzene ring was at it again. Metabolized and then set loose in the liver, just a single large dose exposure to myristicin, elemicin, dramatically increased the risk of liver cancer in its usual way - chopping up DNA strands like a razorblade the thickness of a single carbon atom. While I'm inclined to take worries about free benzene produced by hepatic metabolism with a grain of salt, the science here seemed simple, solid, and most importantly backed up by empirical evidence. Needless to say, I decided it wasn't worth the health risk to test out the essential oils themselves, sticking to their future forms as phenethylamine synths. I wish it wasn't so, but that was my cost-benefit analysis on the matter. All of the research is in the public domain if you want to dig, although it's not as straightforward as it should be. I've posted about this on other forums - let me up some Googling and see if I can find some old citations.
I haven't done any of the digging you mentioned yet, but is it possible that the amount of actual elemicin present in elemi oil is minimal enough to make it not risky to consume? For a very loose example, I know that some MAOI's, like Quercetin, are only barely relevant and are considered not at all risky to take with drugs otherwise dangerous or deadly when combined with a MAOI, so I was wondering if this could perhaps go by the same rule, based on your research? Just to clarify as well, it's just 1 ml of elemi oil without myristicin, so not Nutmeg, which may have a good bit more elemicin present in recreational doses since it always takes a considerably "large" dose for the desired effects- but I don't know an accurate way to do an elemi oil -> elemicin conversion currently. And after all, Nutmeg in food products is consumed all the time, so that means that there's definitely a sweet spot where elemi oil would top out and transition to being potentially dangerous vs. having no health effects, I'm hoping this level is more than mentioned, because it definitely is a neat experience, and it would ease my mind to learn that it won't prove to be problematic for me.
 
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The other forum has changed its design and I can't find my old references, but this was the first Google scholar result

https://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/tx300239z
I looked up a few keywords and came across a short read about risk assessment for it. I'm much too tired at the moment as well as uneducated on much of the used terminology- would you be able to "dumb it down" slightly for me? I'm not looking for the entire thing, however, if you could pretty much rephrase the key parts and/or conclusion, that would be a great help. Also, I did see 'carcinogenic' mentioned, so I right away knew that there's definitely some connection to your previous post there, I'm just not quite sure of the meaning of it (not carcinogenic vs. very carcinogenic), and plenty of other things mentioned, as my education on that certain science isn't at its peak per se. Thanks for the comment as well, I'm glad to be able to put in more research.
 
Is it possible that the amount of actual elemicin present in elemi oil is minimal enough to make it not risky to consume?

From what I've read, elemi oil is ingested because it's a source of elemicin, which is hoped to be psychoactive. The other chemicals making up elemi oil are highly unlikely to be psychoactive. Essential oils are drugs - some are pretty innocuous, some are extremely toxic. Nutmeg is a perfect example. The spice is not considered harmful because the amount of oil consumed in food is so miniscule. If extracted and concentrated, however, tiny amounts are thought to be harmful. For what it's worth, one source lists elemi oil as 2.4% elemicin, but this will be variable. https://doi.org/10.1002/ffj.2730080107

So if I understand your question on carcinogenicity correctly, you're wondering how it might be carcinogenic? I'll be the first to tell you that my understanding of how the liver metabolizes chemicals is not the strongest. It can be tempting to try to generalize from one situation to another when the conditions may be subtly different. In this case, though, it seems like it's quite likely that the alkenylbenzenes are carcinogenic when taken in amounts not normally found in foods. This probably has to do with the way the liver processes them. The liver uses enzymes to modify the structure of chemicals. Ideally, this renders toxic chemicals harmless. Sometimes, though, it can turn harmless chemicals into harmful ones.

Elemicin and mescaline are very similar molecules, but may be metabolized quite differently

11046

From what I've read, mescaline is not metabolized in the liver, and is mostly excreted in the urine unchanged. What is metabolized is via MAO-b, but that's less than 50% and that's just into its carboxylic acid form. In other words, it's a very similar structure to mescaline. I'm no pharmacologist, but I think that's probably because that big, bulky nitrogen on it shields the carbon sidechain from enzymatic attack. It's probably a lot more complicated than that, though. I mean, look at this diagram for anise oil metabolism in rodents:

11047

The structure that we're concerned about is benzene.
11048

It's that ring in the middle and it works just like a shuriken on your DNA unless there are other atoms around it keeping the sharp edges away from your genetic material. Mescaline isn't harmful because it is surrounded by buffers that the liver enzymes can't get to. Elemicin doesn't seem like it does based on:

a) research saying that it is carcinogenic and toxic to the liver
b) the underground biohackers trying to suppress liver enzyme levels to maximize any psychoactivity

I was interested in the various essential oils that people were testing out for psychoactive properties (oilahuasca) a few years ago, and it was really excited. I just had some questions about an approach that required overcoming the body's natural defenses either through high doses or drugs to interfere with liver function. When I went digging into the possible toxicity, the mechanism for causing harm seemed really straightforward. When I asked around to see why I shouldn't be concerned, the answers were not satisfactory. A lot of the papers that I cited from back then have disappeared, but I did find a couple on the related estragole. If it weren't for the Internet Archive, I wouldn't have found those, either! There are plenty on safrole, though
https://web.archive.org/web/20140327233557/http://oehha.ca.gov/prop65/pdf/estragf.pdf
 
From what I've read, elemi oil is ingested because it's a source of elemicin, which is hoped to be psychoactive. The other chemicals making up elemi oil are highly unlikely to be psychoactive. Essential oils are drugs - some are pretty innocuous, some are extremely toxic. Nutmeg is a perfect example. The spice is not considered harmful because the amount of oil consumed in food is so miniscule. If extracted and concentrated, however, tiny amounts are thought to be harmful. For what it's worth, one source lists elemi oil as 2.4% elemicin, but this will be variable. https://doi.org/10.1002/ffj.2730080107

So if I understand your question on carcinogenicity correctly, you're wondering how it might be carcinogenic? I'll be the first to tell you that my understanding of how the liver metabolizes chemicals is not the strongest. It can be tempting to try to generalize from one situation to another when the conditions may be subtly different. In this case, though, it seems like it's quite likely that the alkenylbenzenes are carcinogenic when taken in amounts not normally found in foods. This probably has to do with the way the liver processes them. The liver uses enzymes to modify the structure of chemicals. Ideally, this renders toxic chemicals harmless. Sometimes, though, it can turn harmless chemicals into harmful ones.

Elemicin and mescaline are very similar molecules, but may be metabolized quite differently

View attachment 11046

From what I've read, mescaline is not metabolized in the liver, and is mostly excreted in the urine unchanged. What is metabolized is via MAO-b, but that's less than 50% and that's just into its carboxylic acid form. In other words, it's a very similar structure to mescaline. I'm no pharmacologist, but I think that's probably because that big, bulky nitrogen on it shields the carbon sidechain from enzymatic attack. It's probably a lot more complicated than that, though. I mean, look at this diagram for anise oil metabolism in rodents:

View attachment 11047

The structure that we're concerned about is benzene.
View attachment 11048

It's that ring in the middle and it works just like a shuriken on your DNA unless there are other atoms around it keeping the sharp edges away from your genetic material. Mescaline isn't harmful because it is surrounded by buffers that the liver enzymes can't get to. Elemicin doesn't seem like it does based on:

a) research saying that it is carcinogenic and toxic to the liver
b) the underground biohackers trying to suppress liver enzyme levels to maximize any psychoactivity

I was interested in the various essential oils that people were testing out for psychoactive properties (oilahuasca) a few years ago, and it was really excited. I just had some questions about an approach that required overcoming the body's natural defenses either through high doses or drugs to interfere with liver function. When I went digging into the possible toxicity, the mechanism for causing harm seemed really straightforward. When I asked around to see why I shouldn't be concerned, the answers were not satisfactory. A lot of the papers that I cited from back then have disappeared, but I did find a couple on the related estragole. If it weren't for the Internet Archive, I wouldn't have found those, either! There are plenty on safrole, though
https://web.archive.org/web/20140327233557/http://oehha.ca.gov/prop65/pdf/estragf.pdf

Thank you for all the information, I apologize for not getting back to you in a timely manner- I've been doing some research of my own and I've found some promising (or so it seems) information on the carcinogenicity of Elemicin or Elemicin Oil.

"Carcinogenic/anticarcinogenic potential: Neither elemicin nor 1′-hydroxyelemicin was carcinogenic in male mice when a total dose of 4.75 μmol (1.0 mg and 1.1 mg, respectively) was injected ip in increasing doses on days 1, 8, 15 and 22 prior to weaning (Miller et al 1983). However, in a similar study using a total dose of 9.5 μmol (2.13 mg) 1′-hydroxyelemicin, the average number of hepatomas per male mouse was 0.8, compared to 0.1 in the control group. Similarly, a single ip injection of 0.1 or 0.25 μmol/g of 1′-hydroxyelemicin at 12 days of age resulted in 0.3 and 0.4 (respectively) hepatomas per male mouse, compared to 0.2 in the control group. Tumors were assessed at 13 months (Wiseman et al 1987). Antiproliferative activity has been reported for elemicin against various isolated tumor cells, with ED50 values of 4.5 μg/mL (MK-1) 2.0 μg/mL (HeLa) and 2.6 μg/mL (B16F10) (Ikeda et al 1998 )."
From:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/biochemistry-genetics-and-molecular-biology/elemicin

The journals mentioned in that source claim a weak potential for carcinogenicity in 1'-hydroxyelemicin, but state that there's no documented potential in Elemicin. There's hardly any data whatsoever in existence on the safety of Elemicin, so that shouldn't be- and isn't claimed to be- an acceptable conclusion on the entirety of how safe elemicin is, but it's most definitely a start. To add onto that, I'll quote some users of another forum, but leave it unnamed and unlinked as I'm not entirely sure of the rules for referencing another forum off the top of my head.

Quote 1:
" I would really like to see the research that proves elemi oil to be renal toxic. In my subjective experience, elemi feels like more of an antioxidant and gives me clear yellow urine. A nephrotoxin would shows symptoms such as dark, smelly urine, painful urination, and lower back pain. I would be interested to see my BUN and creatinine levels after taking elemicin."

Quote 2:
""I have thus far found no reports online of elemicin producing toxic effects. Not that it isnt possible, but one would think that others would be eager to share this information... This was nearly a year ago, I think... I have noticed no toxicity since then, and I don't think anything is wrong with my kidneys (but if I can't feel it then I guess I really wouldn't know)."

For whatever reason, thear quotes are referring to finding no information on the toxicity of Elemicin in their kidneys- not the liver as you mentioned and cited sources for previously. This may be due to known (to them) information on renal toxicity of other allylbenzenes- I don't think they'd simply just be looking at the wrong place. There's also much more documentation of elemicin and elemi oil trials on that forum by many different people- which took me a very long time to find, as I'd originally thought there were hardly any experiences out there, but they're just buried- with not a single mention of adverse effects over the multiple years that the specific threads were active for, which leads me to assume that there's a possibility that the method and/or dosing used in at least some of the conducted studies on rodents is irrelevant to the case of how much would be used, the route of administration, and other factors in the use of it by humans. I'm not saying anything I've said to counter what you've mentioned, it's simply what I've read along the road of my research, if you or anyone else has any more ideas or knowledge on the topic, no matter what conclusion is drawn, please share it! The more readily available information, the better- there's never, ever too much information.
 
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Elemicin enhances colors and sharpens my vision a bit. Not too stimmy. That's about it.
 
Elemicin enhances colors and sharpens my vision a bit. Not too stimmy. That's about it.
Thanks for the reply- it's been the same for me so far when solely using elemi oil (not sure if you meant that or pure elemicin) but there's a lot more steps needed to make it psychoactive, I've been doing a good bit of research scientifically and based on my own and others experiences- I'll PM you sometime today and discuss some things I've learned that may help you out if you're interested in why you get the effects you get and why you don't get others. Again, I'm not 100% on a lot of this, but I've got a lot of supporting data on it. If anyone else reading wants to know more, I'm planning on composing a large thread (maybe a designated Elemicin mega thread in the future?!) based entirely on how to get the effects that elemicin possesses and what to do to properly obtain that- it's very overwhelming for me and I'm sure it would be for many others too, as well as it being hard to piece together. However, my ultimate hope is that some portion of the community will step up, and then, with the shared insight and knowledge that we have- which is crucial, since there are so many people here that are immensely more educated in this matter than I am- discovering more about this substance and how it works should be made much easier to truly do.
 
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I took elemi oil. Not pure elemicin. It does sometimes give me trippy whirlwind visuals when staring into a static television set channel. I usually take about the same dose as you--20 drops aka 1 gram aka I mL. Last week, I dropped the oil on a loaf of bread and washed down the chemical taste with a soda. Perhaps I should try 5 grams? Hmm. Maybe. Last weeks 1 mL was--I would concur--certainly, as you stated, "truly high definition." But for me not mind blowing on the way I would imagine mascaline to be.
 
I took elemi oil. Not pure elemicin. It does sometimes give me trippy whirlwind visuals when staring into a static television set channel. I usually take about the same dose as you--20 drops aka 1 gram aka I mL. Last week, I dropped the oil on a loaf of bread and washed down the chemical taste with a soda. Perhaps I should try 5 grams? Hmm. Maybe. Last weeks 1 mL was--I would concur--certainly, as you stated, "truly high definition." But for me not mind blowing on the way I would imagine mascaline to be.
Before I say anything else- be super cautious when considering upping your dose, not even due to tolerance or anything, but because there's no research conducted on the maximum dose that's safe to consume- I'm sure that I've probably read reports of people who have used similar, probably even larger doses than what you mentioned with no known adverse effects, and I've also read from one source that while some of us get suitable effects from a dose of 0.5 ml to 1 ml, that actually may be due to the fact that our bodies are more effective at metabolizing elemicin and others who aren't as lucky would need between 2-5 ml to get those same effects, but again, be cautious, do research, and then do what the most health conscious choice is.

Now, for my reply:
I'm very glad that you were able to get effects (apparently many people's bodies are unable to properly metabolize elemicin or related allylbenzenes), and yes, it was certainly not a mind blowing psychedelic experience, but it was definitely not placebo, so it just means that there's more to be learned in order to have that experience. Since this report (which was first recorded by me in September, 2018) I've had other insane experiences that include elemicin in combination with other substances- which occurred purely by accident- I'll add onto that when I get back just to you via PM- where I believe I actually ended up truly activating the psychoactive properties of elemi, but the effects I did get still may have actually been dulled due to a variable in that combination. I know/assume the reason for that, and it isn't much, but it's going to take some time before I PM you with all my information, so I'll summarize what I've learned real briefly here: Elemi is (if you've seen the chemical structure, which is provided by Pfaffed earlier in this thread) very similar to mescaline, but it is missing some components, which if I remember correctly are the components that interact with certain amino acids in your body and that play a part in the effects it has. For how to get past that, there's been mentions of: 1) combining certain inhibitors for different enzymes in the P450 cytochrome which is largely responsible for the proper metabolization of elemi as well as the conversion of it to its more psychoactive metabolites (namely elemicin aldehyde and elemicin epoxide), 2) taking other very specific natural substances that have nearly the same structure or function as elemicin some time (generally about 20-30 minutes) prior to dosing elemi in order to "busy up" the enzymes that it would pass through- supposedly causing the elemicin to metabolize the proper way immediately, 3) going through a physical process that involves introducing solutions of elemi to copious amounts of oxygen and in some way editing the amount of hydrogen in it, among other things in order to yield the end result of the elemicin epoxide being able to be converted successfully to an amine inside your body. Most of those methods are super complex and involve both knowledge and equipment (like what is necessary to "reflux" the elemi oil and cause what was mentioned just above) that many, many people just don't have handy- and that includes me. My whole purpose for doing so much research into this now is to find a way to not exactly make elemi "accessible" for everyone- since it practically already is, but to reintroduce it and find a method that's as simple as anyone's average potentiation combos. That's what I think I figured out- but I'm going to be running some experiments to the best extent that I can to figure out how to perfect my proposed method. I'm not going to go into great detail, but myself and a small amount of others are going to begin trying various dosing of what supposedly unlocks the psychoactive properties of elemi oil- and once we're able to achieve the same or nearly the same result, we'll continue on. Just to clarify, there's not going to be any of us "ballsy"- or should I say, stupid- enough to test just how much elemi oil we can consume before causing harm- the dose of elemi oil is generally going to be the "control" variable in the process- it's mainly to see just how much of the other substance it takes to activate the elemi oil assuredly, starting at the lowest dose- I wouldn't recommend for anyone take "large doses" yet myself, simply due to the fact that even though people who've used this before have had no adverse effects, there is no scientifically proven conclusion on the safety- and it doesn't seem like that's coming at the moment. However, that'll change for sure if what I've pieced together ends up panning out, which then should cause elemicin to be much more "out there" and renowned by both people like me who enjoy the aspect of a possible "new" moderate psychedelic (or any new drug to be honest), as well as the rest of the mainstream drug community (so those of us who are constantly posting on or just skimming forums for information on one thing or another). Sadly, if this works the way that I'm aiming for, then it poses a large risk of gaining a lot of popularity, which, for prospective recreational substances like this, is a very bad thing concerning legality. This could technically result in the government making elemi oil be taken off shelves, but nutmeg poses a great deal more of a "risk" for abuse- and it's still accessible, after decades of documented abuse. What do I- with my vastly limited knowledge on substance related legality- think will happen? Well, I feel that if I was both blessed and extremely lucky and did inadvertently discover the certain way for *hopefully* all people to be able to experience elemicin the way it's truly meant to be (which is not how I experienced it in my report, for clarification; there are a few hard-to-find experience reports which used some of the previously mentioned "complex methods" and were able to have an experience reportedly almost indistinguishable from one of mescaline or closely similar psychedelics; it was also said that rather than getting that "near-mescaline" feeling for some, it felt closer to roughly "a couple hits of good acid") that its popularity may end up spiking, and that the government may then attempt to slap some regulations on how it's purchased- possibly ones similar to what they do for Dextromethoprhan or Pseudoephedrine now, where you have to be a certain age, show ID, and give your signature. However, I imagine that doing that for an essential oil and having those steps necessary to be completed by the businesses selling essential oils would be too strict/harsh- many of those companies are small and wouldn't be able to operate if they're having to be so careful with the federal "do's and don't's" on their back. So I think that it would really take a major event if that were to ever happen, my best guess is that very slowly, the government will build up rules on elemi just like they're doing for Kratom, even though the two have practically nothing in common- luckily, for elemi though, it'll probably exclude the whole stigma against it due to there being "related deaths" which for Kratom, are actually mostly deaths where people overdosed due to a large combination of the common "hard drugs" and just happened to have some Kratom in their system as well. Also, Kratom, with a lot of bills for proposed illegality and other regulations in existence, is still very easy to obtain, so if that were to happen, it wouldn't necessarily be a total loss- or a loss at all depending on the ruling- but that's all for the future. Hope this helped you and anyone else- any and all criticism or questions would be greatly appreciated.
 
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Right now, it looks like you and I are about the only people who have consumed elemi oil lately. I genuinely dislike its taste, and the 'trip' is so mild I don't see the DEA banning it anytime soon. As far as nutmeg oil goes, I once drank a 4 ounce bottle and did not trip or notice any kind of psychosensory alteration, other than the fact that my shit stunk to high heaven for at least a month afterwards.
 
Right now, it looks like you and I are about the only people who have consumed elemi oil lately. I genuinely dislike its taste, and the 'trip' is so mild I don't see the DEA banning it anytime soon. As far as nutmeg oil goes, I once drank a 4 ounce bottle and did not trip or notice any kind of psychosensory alteration, other than the fact that my shit stunk to high heaven for at least a month afterwards.
Spot on about the dreadful taste and the fact that it's very unknown right now- that mild high however, is pretty much just the "scraps" of an actual high, that's what I was going on about earlier with the whole "activation" of the psychoactive properties- it's definitely psychoactive in the both of us, but hardly, and that's to be expected when it's taken alone- I'm glad about that though, there's going to be many people who get nothing from just the oil- think of the process very, very loosely like DMT, I don't have any experience with it, but I know more or less that it isn't active unless taken with a MAOI drug. Again, I've got hardly any knowledge on DMT, so I might be, and probably am, wrong about certain things for that, but I know that somewhere I've read something along the lines of a MAOI being necessary in order to-at least fully- bring out the effects of DMT. So to compare that to elemi, we get our usual, minimal effects when dosing with the oil alone, which may be the same for DMT actually (again don't quote me for any of that, just trying to give an example here), but if we combine the right thing with our dose, then it's active. So MAOI's to DMT are like [what I think works] to Elemicin.
FYI: I'm not stating the names of anything now so that I can wait until I'm sure it's safe and have gotten convincing results from my experiments- that way if something happens to be wrong, I haven't shared misinformation and that also helps to make sure that I'm not accidentally sharing anything that can get people hurt. I do plan to mention it when I write a thread just for Elemicin and everything about it- so safety, dosing, properties, all that fun stuff; I may also share it with you privately, I'll just need some time to get all of my information in front of me and make it in some way presentable, as long as you're even wanting to learn more, that is.
 
If elemi oil gets popular enough, then they will restrict it. Right now, although the two of us are very open about our previous use, there are only 2 people (more or less) who appreciate it, so the DEA doesn't care. Just keep your stash yourself. You can PM me and I will listen to your trip reports. If you want to get crazy, make TMA-1 from it!!! Just kidding. Only a cook or lab trained organic chemist is qualified to do that, and you can be sure that those who do undertake said endeavour keep it *very* quiet, as manufacturing TMA-1 is highly illegal without a DEA schedule I permit. Elemi oil can also be used to manufacture semi synthetic mescaline, but it is chemically simpler to make TMA-1 from elemi oil than mescaline. TMA-1 is the anphetamine +1 homologue of mescaline. I have never tried it. It generally gets lackluster to negative reviews.
 
If elemi oil gets popular enough, then they will restrict it. Right now, although the two of us are very open about our previous use, there are only 2 people (more or less) who appreciate it, so the DEA doesn't care. Just keep your stash yourself. You can PM me and I will listen to your trip reports. If you want to get crazy, make TMA-1 from it!!! Just kidding. Only a cook or lab trained organic chemist is qualified to do that, and you can be sure that those who do undertake said endeavour keep it *very* quiet, as manufacturing TMA-1 is highly illegal without a DEA schedule I permit. Elemi oil can also be used to manufacture semi synthetic mescaline, but it is chemically simpler to make TMA-1 from elemi oil than mescaline. TMA-1 is the anphetamine +1 homologue of mescaline. I have never tried it. It generally gets lackluster to negative reviews.
Yeah, good points all around man- and I've read and seen about the huge similarities shared by all of those chemicals, but yeah, I'm not currently planning on opening up a DIY kitchen lab for TMA, so we can save that conversation for another day=D

I'll reach out to you sometime soon, just need to find time- which is a bit hard at the moment, it's always really great to pass around experiences and knowledge
 
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