Ericjones03
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2018
- Messages
- 38
Brief summary of my findings for those not looking to read
First impressions/thanks
Introducing Elemicin
Reassurance/clarification
First thoughts on activation and metabolization
Experience #1 on Elemi & Dextromethorphan
Evidence on theory of using DXM and Elemi
Testing whether therapeutic doses of DXM with Elemi are worthwhile
Possible substitution of DXM to activate Elemi
My thoughts on how to have your body best process Elemi
Reflection on my reasons for writing
Accidental discovery of new effects yielded from taking higher doses of Elemi
"7 Day Experiment"
Brief concluding thoughts
After stumbling upon some experience reports on Elemi Oil, I decided to give it a try, expecting to get very minimal, if any effects due to not seeing anything extraordinary brought up elsewhere. My expectations for it were shattered entirely when I accidentally combined Elemi Oil with DXM one evening in 2018. After a few hours had passed and I'd gotten next to no effects from the Elemi alone, I decided to dose 240 mg of DXM to have a fun experience with a friend, but instead got some really crazy effects that didn't match those of DXM. I then decided to look into using DXM with Elemi to cause it to yield much greater effects than what Elemi's done on it's own and that led me to look into how the liver processes both substances. However, since there's not much information on Elemi out there, I wasn't able to get a certain answer on what all liver enzymes it worked on, but I did find out that it acts on CYP2D6 at least. After looking into the livers processing of the two, I did some trials of my own with therapeutic doses of DXM vs. the recreational dose I did my first time combining the two and also ended up finding a way that Elemi may be able to give some pretty good effects without taking anything else on top of it. I found a lot of new effects and uncovered the possibility that it may work just fine when left alone after a friend accidentally took around 5 ml of Elemi and started having a really profound experience that, in his words, felt like ecstasy and a low dose of LSD. I tried it myself and got some really neat effects as well, which leads me to believe that it may just take a dose that "high" or even higher to get the wanted effects from the substance. That's all I've got so far for Elemi, but it's sure to grow as time goes on- and hearing the opinions of others will be great to add onto what all is known about it.
First impressions/thanks
Before really diving in, I’d just like to give a brief introduction and also give a much needed “Thank You” to: 1) All of the people who, in person or behind a screen, helped me- either directly or indirectly- come up with all of this and then put it into words and 2) You guys who are taking this time out of your day to read through this- there’s not even a chance that I’d have the work I have to show today without the help from reading the work of people who discussed the same topics as many of the things I’ll be getting into before I started my research, everyone who has answered my questions along the path of my research, and just as importantly, those of you who are going to type up your responses and criticism after you’re finished reading- because without the help from any and everyone’s thoughts on any and every idea mentioned here, who knows what vital information could end up never seeing the light of day? I could put much more thought into my appreciation, but to be honest, I’m not even able to thank everybody who I should thank and I surely can’t put it into words how much all of the help- past, present, or future- means to me, so I’ll just leave it at that and get to my introduction which, beware, will surely not be the best part of this paper- it’s something I’m just now throwing in after writing nearly everything else, and is just to summarize and attempt to outline some of my information for you guys.
Introducing Elemicin
Here it goes- firstly, I’m going to be talking about Elemicin (unless otherwise stated, always assume to be in the form of Elemi Oil when brought up in this writing) in regards to my ideas on how it could possibly have the potential to amount to much more than its doing presently. I’ll get into briefly explaining what I’ve learned about it as a substance and I’ll discuss some other information just about Elemicin in general that I learned along the way as well. After getting (not all, but a lot of) the information that I’ve learned on Elemicin put out there, I’ll bring up how it correlates with a past experience I’ve had, as well as how another substance that could be a crucial piece in the proper activation (that’s the term I’ll use when I’m referring to Elemicin working in the body without error, therefore, being metabolized properly- the “activation” part comes from the idea that then its psychoactive properties will show up, and was the term that I most commonly saw used for the same purpose previously) fits into the puzzle. There’s a lot of other unmentioned ideas that will be brought up, because frankly, with the huge lack of information and research on Elemicin, many of the ideas regarding it that came to my mind had nothing already in existence (that I could find) to back up their relevance and/or validity, so I had to- with the help of a very small number of people- work out what the outcome or whatnot could be, and determine to the best of our capabilities, what each idea would mean for the work we were working on.
Reassurance/clarification
One thing I want to ensure is heard by all is that I’m not a scientist in the least, so I can guarantee that there are many of you who are much smarter than I am and will point out how some of the “solutions” or “ideas” that I brought up aren’t accurate- and I’m looking forward to hearing that as a reassurance, so please don’t withhold any criticism whether it goes towards the same conclusion that I drew or not, because everything that can be offered by anybody out there will surely be a help to me and the others reading this. I feel like this introduction will be able to serve its purpose- as just an introduction and a summary of the beginning ideas in my writing- enough to warrant going ahead and stopping it here, as I’ve already started to venture away from outlining the information. If there’s anything that’s unclear at all to anybody, I’ll be here to answer anything that needs to be answered- questions, comments, concerns, all the fun stuff.
First thoughts on activation and metabolization
Now, to really start the content: In my research, I came across the idea of Elemi needing to be properly activated within the body to gain its actual psychedelic effects or else the minimal effects that we've had are as good as you'll get, if even that- making those of us who have been able to have any experience whatsoever, no matter how small, some of the luckier ones. I read that there are certain enzymes in the P450 Cytochrome that are responsible for properly metabolizing Elemicin (the only certain one was CYP2D6) and that Elemicin is actually easy to metabolize for the body, but only under very certain circumstances is it done so properly, which would explain why in the past, others have had a lot of trouble activating its properties with success. There's mentions of all kinds of methods from using metabolites of Elemicin, other allylbenzenes, or other substances to act on certain enzymes to allow Elemicin to properly metabolize, but there's never been anyone that's known the exact enzymes that need to be acted upon, or in which way to do so, it's only been a question of what may work. I didn't know any of this back when I tried Elemi oil my first many times (I actually, just back in July 2019, started going and trying doses in an attempt to test and experiment on the conclusion I've reached and haven’t finished yet, but I will soon- worth noting that these experiments will be mentioned in a good bit of detail in another post further on) so I was only using it alone and assuming that it would either simply take a good bit more to get real psychedelic effects (which actually may be entirely correct) or that I just had a low quality product, yet that was proven incorrect after one experience by a friend of mine and multiple experiences of my own.
Experience #1 on Elemi & Dextromethorphan
My second time using Elemi oil yielded the same effects that we both get, and was 2 days after my very first time trying it. Around roughly 4 hours after I'd dosed 0.5 ml of Elemi oil along with a friend, we decided to take our usual lower 2nd plateau dose of DXM (which we enjoy using every once in awhile when we're together) since the slight effects of the Elemicin were long gone, so we blindly assumed that there couldn't be any serious interaction, this was a very irresponsible and dangerous choice, I know much better now to steer clear of the unknown for the sake of my own safety- even though what happened was amazing and is my whole reason for typing this up. A quick FYI: I weigh about 50-60 pounds less than the other person who I was with, and our times for consumption of both the Elemi oil and DXM were exactly the same. At somewhere around the 20 minute mark after dosing DXM, we were both watching a show on TV (comedy) and everything seemed exponentially funnier to me- to the point of laughing as I would if one of the funniest things ever had just occurred, even though what I was watching was nowhere near anything like that. Normally, on DXM, I'm the polar opposite of that- on the "come up" I get increasingly less socially conscious and eventually to the point where I'm so absorbed by the experience that hardly any emotions are present. So, even though I didn't pay it any mind at the time, I believe that I experienced the empathogenic properties some have mentioned that Elemicin may possess that night. After maybe another 20 minutes, I decided I was quickly approaching my peak, so my friend and I hopped onto a playlist on YouTube I have that has a lot of ambient music, visuals- everything good for a trip of nearly any kind. We finished the video just under 20 minutes later, and from this point on, I'm going off of my very blurred memory and the details shared with me by my friend- also, at this point, I'm pretty sure I'd seen a few visuals and definitely started having auditory hallucinations during that video, yet my friend was having zero effects, and he didn't get any until probably 2-3 hours later. I'm just going to summarize this last bit now- I started speaking in a very slurred manner, with no ability to piece together my words or thoughts whatsoever, and then after giving up on my friend understanding me fully, I went to the other side of the room where we had another TV and a couch, and I resumed watching my playlist while he went back to watching normal television. I had some insane visuals, but sadly, I can't remember anything other than the most out of body experience I've ever had, and it was truly something. What happened was this: I was watching a video- still completely absent from my mind- and then it was as though an insanely bright flash went off for a fraction of a second, then I was standing in some dark corridor (the light of this place was dark, but I believe that I could see all the stars around me, like I was standing in the middle of somewhere in space) and when I looked up, there were three, likely miles-high beings dressed in shining, silver garments, and for a few seconds, I was able to attempt to process what I was seeing in utter astonishment- and with a completely clear mind too, it was as though I was so present in my mind that nothing else existed for that tiny amount of time, then I blinked, and I was back watching YouTube on a couch.
Evidence on theory of using DXM and Elemi
I gave DXM the credit for the results of the experience detailed above, but I'd never gotten anything anywhere close to what I felt that night- and I still haven't- from DXM, even after using doses that more than double that. My conclusion originally was that the Elemicin spiked the effects of DXM, but now I realize that it very likely may be the opposite- the Elemicin was activated by the DXM, and the experience was one of DXM in conjunction with the effects of Elemicin. When that idea popped into my head recently (the experience was nearly 2 years ago, and I've been gathering research ever since, but completely missed that part) I got the following information from PubChem: "[DXM is] rapidly and extensively metabolized to dextrorphan or dxo (active metabolite). One well known metabolic catalyst involved is a specific cytochrome P450 enzyme known as CYP2D6... Dxm undergoes polymorphic metabolism depending on variation in P450 phenotype. Fast metabolizers constitute 84% of the population, intermediate metabolizers constitute about 6.8%, and poor metabolizers constitute 5-10%."
Testing whether therapeutic doses of DXM with Elemi are worthwhile
Reading that bit of information gave me both the idea that A) my friend must generally be a poor metabolizer, which would explain why he didn't get any effects until nearly 3 hours after me (his experience that eventually came was nearly the same as mine according to him, so I won't bother going into any detail) and B) DXM must just happen to act on the right enzymes and whatever else in the right way, leading to a proper activation without you having to acquire any very hard-to-get materials or go through a complicated process. I also think that since I used a normal dose (for me) of DXM- that even though that "worked" for activating the Elemicin, a smaller, so therapeutic, dose would work- possibly even better than what the large dose did for me. I say that based on my knowledge of how DXM is used to potentiate or synergize with other substances and how only a therapeutic dose of somewhere between 30-60 mg is ideal, but I'll find a definite answer for this case specifically after I conclude my experiments. Now, here’s some highlights from the more recent information I’ve gathered on Elemicin: After trying out my idea on activating Elemicin with only the therapeutic dose of DXM, which I kept at 30 mg, for a couple tries, I didn’t get anything that I could clearly say was any different from my experiences on Elemicin alone, so I went into a different category of trials (Elemicin-only trials) to test out and had some interesting results that also challenged what I’d thought may work out, I’ll explain the experiments and “why” in more detail shortly. However, for right now, I’m going to have to go with the fact that in the case of Elemicin needing DXM to be activated properly (just to note, I’ve also considered that DXM may either not be the only substance possible for activating Elemicin, and there may not be any other substances needed at all actually, but I don’t have a definite conclusion so far on that idea) requires, assuming that the idea is correct, the dose to be one that’s at least more on the recreational side than therapeutic side of DXM. I had thought earlier that maybe Elemi being activated with DXM would be like potentiating drugs with DXM where you take a small, therapeutic dose that isn't recreational of DXM before your dose of the drug. The most successful experience I had on Elemi was when it was taken with a full/usual (for me) dose of 240 mg- the Elemi being taken 4 hours or so before the DXM was dosed, which is oddly enough, the inverse of how all of the “potentiation combinations” I’ve read about say to always take the DXM first. When I tried Elemi a few weeks ago, for my first trial testing therapeutic doses of DXM and Elemicin, 1 hour after 30 mg of DXM (compared to 240 mg of DXM 3-4 hours after Elemi) there were definite effects there, but I wouldn't call it psychedelic or anything close to “tripping” at all, my brain and frankly, my sobriety, was at least appearing to still be completely intact. What I then came up with was that, rather than trying that small dose of DXM, it may actually take that big of an amount of a substance to affect the liver enzymes in the right way for Elemicin to go through properly and not just slip through the cracks.
Possible substitution of DXM to activate Elemi
My first thought after the idea that a recreational dose of DXM may be needed was "well how would you distinguish the Elemicin from the DXM if each one supposedly is responsible for the effects" and I came up with this- we could theoretically look and find exactly how DXM acts on any and all liver enzymes (this is assuming that the work it does in the liver is the sole reason that it works how it does with Elemi) and then, find a non recreational, non psychoactive drug that acts the same way and swap the two out if necessary. For example, DXM is a substrate for (or “is metabolized by” if I’m correct) the enzyme CYP2D6- for our trials, we’ll need to assume that this is one of the enzymes that gets acted on by Elemicin- but I’m not sure what role that would put Elemicin at playing, it would be either of three things, at least that’s what I believe: so then, we'd simply look at the giant list of drugs that inhibit said enzyme, pick an easily accessible one (which I'm sure there will be plenty that are OTC and cheap) and go from there. It's just a theory, but one absolutely worth the attempt in the case that us taking doses of dxm that don't reach it's "really" psychoactive level doesn't pan out.
My thoughts on how to have your body best process Elemi
I believe a much better comparison for Elemicin to "potentiation" would be how benzodiazepines are potentiated- you can't just treat it like you would for amphetamine or opiates, for example. Benzos main potentiator is grapefruit juice, best taken 1-2 hours before the benzo because it "clogs" the enzymes and then increases the effects and duration of the benzos. I feel like DXM to Elemi is the grapefruit juice to benzos- just in a reversed order where you take the Elemi first, wait a couple hours (most likely due to it having a long onset, but it's unstudied so we've only got our wits here) and then take the DXM. I assume that then, the Elemi will be at the phase of its metabolization, and that taking the DXM (which has a quick onset) will then do its work and clog those enzymes, and boom- all those holes in Elemi's tire get patched up and it goes on as it should. That all came to me when I was thinking about benzos and remembered how someone had phrased it as clogging the enzymes so that it stays longer, and then gives better effects- so that brought on all the thought about maybe actually needing a normal dose of DXM since the word "clog" correlates with a big amount of something to me. I like to picture the process of Elemi being metabolized as turning on a sink to fill up a cup, but there's a hole in the water pipe. You can try all kinds of ways of turning the faucet, putting your finger on the hole, but the pressure is too much to hold with just a finger. Then, you get a sealant, and you seal the pipe. What happens next? The water flows and the cup is filled. That sink with a hole in the pipe represents our body metabolizing the Elemi. The hole isn't large enough to stop the water entirely, but we need a full glass and only a few drops is better than nothing- but doesn't cut it. The full glass represents the full potential of effects that Elemi has, the few drops are the minimal effects we feel from it alone. The sealant on the pipe that fixes the flow of the water- even if it may be temporary and could need to be done every time you want a glass of water- that represents DXM. It's the medium that has what Elemi doesn't and enables it to be used as it's meant to be used.
Reflection on my reasons for writing
All that I said tonight was a few different ideas, just some thoughts I've had, you'll see if you read it all top to bottom that I contradict myself about "metabolizing" and things among that- but when you know nothing about something, you'll go nowhere if you only try one route over and over again, so answering my own questions isn't a sign that I'm lacking in progress or intelligence, but quite the opposite. I started this piece of writing on August 2nd, 2019 but couldn't get around to finishing it with all of the things I had going on in my life, however, now that I've had time to settle everything to the best of my ability, I'm doing my best to get back into this and finish everything up- because I feel like it's a heavy loss if I end up knowing all of this but not sharing it with everyone that wants to know/listen. I had some time to get back to my "experiments" with Elemi in January of 2020, and I ended up finding a lot of crazy things I didn't expect to see at all in the effects of Elemi- I'll type up the paper I wrote on those newfound effects and the conclusion of my experiment that I conducted- which I'll be referring to as the "7 Day Experiment"- I feel like that, plus the experience a great friend of mine had, will be very beneficial to my work so far on Elemi and all the work we do in the future. First off, what I'm about to add in is from a paper I wrote months ago, and some of the things I mention will have already been discussed in this post, but before that, I'd like to give some details about my friends experience that inspired me to do everything I did in that paper- and it also is what led me to the conclusion that maybe, just maybe, a higher dose is all that's needed to cause the "psychedelic" effects of Elemi.
Accidental discovery of new effects yielded from taking higher doses of Elemi
In October 2019, I gave a friend the first dose (2 ml) of a brand new bottle of Elemi Oil I'd gotten to see how it affected him and to get his opinion on the substance- little did I know this would be (as of right now) the best experience anyone ever had on it. This isn't because of my friend being lucky or there being something special about him, but rather a mistake that while being very risky, turned out to be immensely beneficial. This "mistake" was my friend, after around 2 hours, redosing the Elemi after feeling hardly any effects whatsoever, but accidentally dosing somewhere around 3-4 ml instead of the 1-2 ml he meant to take (due to his "eyeballing" of the dose rather than using something to measure it precisely). Under 30 minutes after his redose, a little while after I really gave him hell for doing something so risky and dangerous once I found out , he started getting some really weird, new effects from the substance, some being: increased strength, uncontrollable laughter & smiling, limited ability to speak, and more, but I'll list those among a lot of other new effects that I was able to "discover" during my 7 day long trial of using Elemi to test multiple theories and hypotheses that I had or had saw others talk about before, starting next.
"7 Day Experiment"
My 7 day experiment was overall a greatly successful experiment. Had no negative aspects because even the negative is very helpful to add to the very limited material we have on this so far. The week-long, varying doses, varying times, etc. experiment was entirely done by accident-only after the week was finished was when I considered what all I could do with the data I'd collected from my experience and the potential it held. Not only did I discover some constant information about tolerance, timing, and the effects contributed to Elemi before, but many new aspects appeared concerning its effects as I noted many new, never before seen effects appearing. New effects noticed are as follows: muscle tension/spasms, physical stimulation (in the form of "requiring" some kind of physical output like tapping of the leg or hand), textures appearing over objects/surfaces, joint soreness/stiffness, an almost manic sense of happiness, a positive outlook on things the next day, text appearing to be "bulging", objects appearing to be pulsing as if alive, itchiness, numbness primarily in the face, better perception of music, a sense of glee/bliss, feeling very content with everything, that feeling that everything's beautiful, the exact same kind of physical stimulation LSD has (for me at least) where my muscles seem to tighten and seize up, spots in vision, body feeling "tingly", constant zoning out occurring, lack of interest in things outside of what's going on in one's own mind, hyper-focus similar to that of amphetamines, and a heightened sense of observation towards one's surroundings. Some theories were also tried and tested, such as reverse tolerance, redosing to adjust effects, dosing with caffeine (in the form of Yerba Mate tea), and difference between social vs isolated environments. Inconclusive results yielded for reverse tolerance- had no positive or negative effects in my tolerance. Redosing was inconclusive, needs more time to see tell if it changes the effects enough to matter or if it was just a coincidence for the times where greater effects were noted. No noticeable difference when Elemi was dosed with caffeine, but nothing was really expected out of the combination either. There were some slight differences between using it in a social or isolated environment, but not that much- more noticeable differences examined in my past uses, so nothing new to report there. Possible "hangover/comedown" was noted two times- generally after taking multiple doses both close together and in the span of a couple days. I'm far from knowing what exactly makes this occur, but it's certainly something for me to pay attention to in the future. This may also go to show that the substance acts on dopamine or serotonin receptors, but that's only a theory because the "hangover" felt much like an amphetamine hangover- if this proves to be correct, that'd be very crucial information. In conclusion, many new notes and experiences were logged and will add to the slowly expanding knowledge base on Elemi, and many new and old hypotheses were able to be tested- all in all a very successful time. (I included a table below listing the exact doses I did on each day, just to put it out there.)
| Day # | Dose & time |
| Day 1 | 5 ml - AM |
| Day 2 | 1 ml - AM, 1 ml - PM |
| Day 3 | 1 ml - AM |
| Day 4 | 1 ml - AM, redosed another 1 ml short after |
| Day 5 | 1 ml - PM, followed by a redose of 1 ml then 4 ml |
| Day 6 | 1 ml - PM |
| Day 7 | 1.5 ml - AM, 4 ml - PM |
Brief concluding thoughts
With that and everything else out of the way, I feel like this is the best possible way to conclude my writing. I hope everyone who stuck around and read this was able to learn something or find a way in which this can be improved. Thank you all for your previous and future support, I couldn't have done any of this without help from others. I'll also be adding in other information and questions to further what I have for Elemi here on Bluelight during the upcoming months, as I've got so much stuff down, but it's too much to cram in one place without taking away from the quality of the work. Thanks again everyone, I'll greatly be awaiting your responses and help in furthering this work on Elemicin to see if it may pan out to be a very worthwhile psychedelic-like drug.
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