Ego death

[dreamedm]

Has anyone experienced this for a prolonged period of time and recovered from it? Some say it's like an extreme dp/dr (the "evil twin" of enlightenment).

Symptoms:

-no sense of self - no one “leading”
-blank mind (always "silent" and not responding to external stimuli)
-objective perception
-timelessness
-living almost completely presently as no wants/excitement for future
-no analytical thought/judgement during interactions
-no frame of reference
-no opinions/preferences
-loss of external attachments
-everything/everyone feels unfamiliar due to loss of connection to memories
-poor memory, specifically affective memory
-blank mind/inner monologue - no “drifting off” in thought or getting distracted in an interested manner
-poor sleep quality
-no excitement - nothing to be excited for
-no deep emotions
-drive for life falling away
-no aspirations
-sense of mourning these abilities/life before this

 

[oxlong27]

I believe I experienced ego death one time on a very high dose of mxe. I didn't know who I was or even what I was it was like an alien environment. Its hard to explain, it felt like I didn't know what thought was what life was or even what I was I remember feeling a vast feeling of hopelessness that I couldn't put into words or a cognitive thought. It was quite scary and after about 15 minutes or so I had my wits about me but still completely FUBAR. I have also experienced ego death on DMT but that was a beautiful experience of utter bliss and oneness with the universe or spirit world or whatever the hell it was.

 

[GaryGlisten]

In North Korea having an ego is something reserved for the Emperor alone. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmwWHbjYEQk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTn2P2tdtRo

 

[herbavore]

I think this sounds more like deep depression. Have you ever had depression before?

 

[dreamedm]

I think this sounds more like deep depression. Have you ever had depression before?

I was already having depression but my "self" was still there. Now it feels like it checked out...my mind is just "silent" and/or focused on the void/emptiness, with the other symptoms.

 

[herbavore]

The reason that I asked is because that is exactly how I felt when my son died--pretty much felt like I had died inside, including that old director: the ego. I slowly came back to life the painful way (by facing every one of the emotions that had simply shut my heart and mind down). I also take a more positive view of this response to life. I truly believe that if more human beings experienced "the void" as we call it, the better off we would all be. We seem to spend our lives destructively avoiding that knowledge--we try to cram it full of stuff and chatter and Hollywood's version of love relationships. But if every single one of us could acknowledge our inherent alone-ness and do it with courage, we could perhaps free ourselves to feel the overwhelming gratitude for the other side of being human--the side where we can make meaningful connections, where we can accept our temporary and brief little lives as all we really have...and perhaps be opened to the gratitude of that. There is nothing in this life like pain or grief to show you the truth of how alone you truly are; but the paradox is that there is also nothing so astounding as human compassion to simply sit by you and say, "I know what you are feeling. I, too, know."

 

[dreamedm]

Thanks, herbavore. I'm really sorry to hear that your son died. I have been feeling pretty hopeless and suicidal but I know I must hang on. Like my mother tells me - no parents should have to bury their children, it should be the opposite. That's great that you came back to life...I hope I do too, but I'm just not sure how. I can't enjoy anything, I have dp/dr - totally dissociated from my self and the world. It's scary being outside around people when you see everything in a kind of 2d motion scene with the brain not responding emotionally or otherwise to external stimuli - I feel like the walking dead. Did you also have dp/dr? May I ask how long it took you to get "better" and if you were on meds or not?

My pdoc prescribed me the antidepressant Remeron, and I'm about to start taking 30 mg. I doubt it'll help though, especially for the dissociation. And I think my depression and dissociation is feeding off each other, so I'm not sure how to get out of it - unless I can somehow connect myself back to myself and others...just not sure how. Trying my best to stay out of the mental hospital and trying to keep whatever sanity I have left.

 

[herbavore]

It has been five years and I still will sometimes feel that sense of existing in the void but I let it be because thankfully I retain the awareness that it is simply a part of my human experience and not the totality. I really believe that the key for me was embracing the depth of grief. I wonder if when you tripped you were exposed to that same depth of alone-ness that grief can take you to and having no context (like grief over a loss) your mind became unmoored? It sounds to me like you are both a seeker and a thinker and I wonder if you can harness both your rational mind (intellect) and your spiritual intuition (pure emotion/humanity) to join forces to lift you from this sense of existing without living?

I will be up-front about my bias against SSRIs/ADs. I feel that maybe 25% of the people on them actually do need them. For the others I think they are not only not helpful, they are destructive simply because what we often call a psychiatric crisis is actually a spiritual crisis or existential crisis and the worst thing for that is further removal from the source of the pain. If, as a society, we were in the habit of facing existential pain rather than numbing or masking or running 100mph from it I believe we would be in a much better place. By all means, listen to your psychiatrist and try the drug if you feel this is the best course of action for you right now. But don't be afraid to say, "this is not hitting the source of my problem" if it doesn't help. Many people try a psychiatric drug and when it doesn't help feel so much more discouraged and I would hate to see that happen to you. You are already in a fatalistic mind trap and what you need is hope. Hope is a very elusive state of mind. I do not know how it returns when it has been obliterated but many humans throughout history have experienced that mystery. I used to feel like I held more hope when my son lost all of his. When hoplessness killed him, I lost mine, too. I think that ultimately life wants to live. All we can do is to continue to try to open.The Buddhists say that when you find yourself completely broken, you have a choice. You can either shut down further or you can open in a whole new way, to a whole new level of being where you realize that compassion (for yourself and every other living thing) is all there is. Everthing else truly is the illusion that you are currently seeing in your ego-less state of mind.

 

[dreamedm]

Thank you for the insights and encouragement, herbavore. I'm pretty skeptical about meds helping, too. I know I need to take action and try to fight this, because I doubt it'll go away on it's own. Hopefully G-d will have mercy on me and help me recover one day, and hopefully I can will myself to making some lifestyle changes that'll hopefully aid in recovery.

 

[Asclepius]

Has anyone experienced this for a prolonged period of time and recovered from it? Some say it's like an extreme dp/dr (the "evil twin" of enlightenment).

Symptoms:

-no sense of self - no one “leading”
-blank mind (always "silent" and not responding to external stimuli)
-objective perception
-timelessness
-living almost completely presently as no wants/excitement for future
-no analytical thought/judgement during interactions
-no frame of reference
-no opinions/preferences
-loss of external attachments
-everything/everyone feels unfamiliar due to loss of connection to memories
-poor memory, specifically affective memory
-blank mind/inner monologue - no “drifting off” in thought or getting distracted in an interested manner
-poor sleep quality
-no excitement - nothing to be excited for
-no deep emotions
-drive for life falling away
-no aspirations
-sense of mourning these abilities/life before this

Yes and recovered.
Thankfully!

It is an awful place to be (despite the popular concenption of ego-death trendy nonsense 8))

Having no-sense of self and not having an ego or a healthy one is akin to death. One life, one ego - ego is necessary to live and survive.

Because of my malnourished state, many moons ago - I was a proverbial 'ghost in the machine' and unaware/not conscious of the ghost, or the machine - that is where the tragedy lies - when you are that sick; there is no sense of self OR other - just nothingness.

Neurons aren't firing properly - the mind is gone - existence is barely there but cannot comprehend itself.

I hope you are ok?

 

[dreamedm]

Yes and recovered.
Thankfully!

It is an awful place to be (despite the popular concenption of ego-death trendy nonsense 8))

Having no-sense of self and not having an ego or a healthy one is akin to death. One life, one ego - ego is necessary to live and survive.

Because of my malnourished state, many moons ago - I was a proverbial 'ghost in the machine' and unaware/not conscious of the ghost, or the machine - that is where the tragedy lies - when you are that sick; there is no sense of self OR other - just nothingness.

Neurons aren't firing properly - the mind is gone - existence is barely there but cannot comprehend itself.

I hope you are ok?

Thanks for replying. I'm hanging in there, but it's extremely tough. You described it pretty well.

Can you share on how you recovered and how long it took? Also, what was the trigger? Any suggestions for recovery are highly appreciated. Not sure how much longer I can bear to live in this devastating, hellish state. It's a total vacuum...a void.

 

[Asclepius]

A long road my friend.
You know, the main thing (despite what you may perceive) is Nourishment - get your diet healthy, for your good self - Protein, various veges, some fruits - Build yourself up, weee bit by bit (this is the foundation of all neurological issues) Your head will get right when you start to treat yourself right - like a mother would - build up your noursihment ( like Zen Monk/Rambo ) Then, let your mind decide what it needs, NEVER put the cart before the horse and listen to people with 'philosiphies' BEFORE you have built up your self;nourished yourself. This is your primary requirement.
Do that,
Then go questioning things.
Dont be foolish enough to think - you can sort things out without getting your neurological health sorted.
Otherwise, I will find you and smack you in THE FACE with your stupidity, ( dont make me!)
When you're head is straight, You know yourself; you can decipher what means you need, according to yourself and you can refute bullshit ( as you see it, in time).
Firstly, get YOUR GOOD SELF strong - without this, there is nothing. No control over anything - even/especially yourself.

 

[dreamedm]

Thanks, Asclepius. So basically start with my diet, right?

I'll try to visit the doc to see if I have any deficiencies or possible inflammations, hormone imblances, etc. My diet as it is definitely ain't good - I eat sweets every day, and hardly any veggies or fruit. I should probably start with juicing and eating less wheat products and cut out the sugar, eh?

I'm wondering if I should continue with meds - I'm currently taking Remeron 30 mg (antidepressant) and my pdoc may augment it with another one if nothing's doing. Not sure I want to go the med route, though honestly...