Esoteric [Ego-Death Subthread] How to achieve it

[Ixchellian]

I found this thread, digging around for others who have used ego-destruction..... and for the most part found some good, valid stuff.

Leary was explaining his own trip with his own jargon, he didn;t realize that he should have named and explained his theories in many ways instead of just his own interpretation, I get what he means, but I also get how other people wouldn't get alot of it.

I never read or listened to Leary until long after my first LSD trip.... and I never could identify much with his trip. Plus the whole guru thing gave him the air of a Harvard snake-oil salesman.... and one on LSD at that....

people tend to explain psychedellia in heavily artistic metaphors which makes it vague to those who aren't attached to the exact same pillar of experience, even though they may be witnessing the same phenomenon

Very frustrating, but metaphor is the near best we can do in describing the psychedelic experience. It's unfortunate that sometimes language just isn't fit to describe a trip.
The key in using metaphor is to have a reference, something easily grasped.
A simple metaphor is often the most powerful, considering its capacity to carry information and ideas.

a friend explains LSD trips in this way : people who arent on LSD see the world as a circle, it keeps to itself and has only one looping path, but those on LSD are the square to their circles, the square has several points but can fit the same space that the circle does, superimposing itself over it. the LSD mind sees the point of interest from several perspectives, whereas the circle normal mind may only interpret one meaning from a subject.

.... which becomes the "lotus", with the imposition and realization of many alternating squares (perhaps infinitely) of ego separation. Without, there can only be one square.... as in weed intoxication.

Yay.... metaphors are fun!....

With ego "death", I never felt disembodied or displaced.... just that my experiencing-self was separated from my observing-self. I occupy the same headspace and universe, except that while tripping I see that space as being separated into planes of experience, and can cross the newly divided ego & id at will.
I can sit back and watch, or give myself fully to the trip.
As a psychonaut, I've found that ego destruction is a very potent tool, and one who's fundamentals can even be applied while sober..... not to mention it makes it a lot easier to remember trip details.

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

A high dose of LSD does it for me, also I sort of had some at least ego fragmentation on 2.0g of mushrooms. YMMV

 

[brueright]

So glad I found this thread! This topic is really interesting.

I've experienced ego death twice in the past month or so, both times on LSD and both toward the end of the trip (t+10h or so). The first time I was on a lot of 2c-e, too.

The first time started out with a panicky flood of memories of the day so far. The last thing I remember saying before really losing it is "To what extent... is this day about... me?" Then I started seeing images of my actual surroundings (my friends) flashing back and forth between an image of this black and white universe. In the universe, it was me - this entity - and this collective consciousness representing, for lack of a better way to express it, Everyone. I realized that I couldn't separate myself from Everyone and became terrified. I forgot that I was a person with experiences and thought that this was life. I kept almost remembering, at a certain point in the music (which I think was hallucinated) and my loop of looking around the room, but it kept slipping out of my grasp. I asked, "Is it like this for everyone?", trying to ask the collective consciousness whether life was all about this frustrating torture of trying to remember how to separate yourself from everything else. I was convinced that this was what life was and that it was hell and it would never end. At this point, I forgot that I was a person who had taken drugs, etc. But I think I said it aloud, to which my friends tried to give me some kind of answer like, "Yes, it's OK, it'll be OK" - but all I heard was the confirmation. I kept talking about "zooming out", and my friends now cringe when they hear me say "zoom out" on any substance lol.

I started saying my full name, address, phone number, maybe even my social security number. I remembered these things but had no idea what they went. Words from my childhood and pictures that I understood as abstracted images of things from my childhood flooded my head, but I didn't see them as memories, just things I knew. I couldn't connect the dots. But I kept saying things aloud, hoping they would be the key to breaking the cycle. Eventually all I could say was "help". My friends asked whether I needed them to call a hospital. I said, "I don't know what a hospital is, but yes. I need help." By the time public safety officers came, I forgot what was going on and was afraid that we were in trouble. I didn't realize that I was being taken to a hospital.

I woke up in a hospital. I slowly regained my sense of self as I slowly regained memories of the day (backwards, weirdly, so it felt like I was experiencing the whole day backwards). A doctor asked me, when inquiring about the SSRIs that I'm on, "Do you have a history of depression?" and I had to think about it for several seconds before understanding what a history was and remembering that I had one. A nurse asked me what year it was and it took me 30 seconds to answer. Eventually it wore off and I was fine.

The second time, as soon as I started freaking out, I realized it. I reminded myself what the appropriate course of action was in a situation like this: "Get in bed, fall asleep, and it'll all be OK in the morning." I lay in bed for two hours shaking, my heart beating and my closed eyelids fluttering. Like last time, words from my past filled my head - lots of Internet usernames and passwords I'd consciously forgotten about - and I knew things had happened but didn't have memories. I knew that this had happened before and that I had forgotten I was a person, so I reminded myself: "You are a person." Then I realized that I had no idea what I meant and my heart started beating even faster so I calmed myself down by promising myself I wouldn't think about it. I wondered if I would lose my memories when I woke up, because they were being thrown at me so disjointly from all directions. I wondered if this would change my outlook on life at all - especially because I knew that right before I freaked out, perhaps triggering it, a friend had said something half-jokingly about how he would never try acid until he had a stable job and life ("because if I suddenly flip out and decide education doesn't matter, at least I'll already have a job"). So this time I definitely had some concept of life; it was just really jumbled and broken-up.

I've realized that the freak-out almost certainly results from trying to place myself in the universe, which is weird because in normal conscious contemplation I don't concern myself with that type of thing. I'm just like, "Cool, I'm alive, I'm gonna die, NBD. Just gonna have fun while I'm here." But on LSD that type of contemplation ends in me... losing myself.

Neither experience was enjoyable, but it's definitely intriguing. How can I forget everything like that? I've wondered if maybe my personality is particularly susceptible to that kind of thing - like, maybe my notion of what things are is so hazy that it's easily deconstructed, torn into pieces? But I mean, it could just be the drugs.

 

[High Yogi]

Thats my query . . . I've experienced very out-of-body experiences, mainly with Salvia but also hypnagogic (falling asleep) experiences, but I don't understand how anyone can experience ego death? If the ego is gone, then there should be no way of confirming what is occuring. Unless the ego is still there?

I think this idea is Timothy Leary's stupidest legacy, as it lead people to think that chemically destroying their 'selves' was the key to self realisation.

Basically, how can YOU experience ego death? The whole nature of it, and what the term implies s a complete contradiction . . . .

YOU ARE CONFUSING THE MIND FOR THE SELF! the ego is a byproduct of the mind, its thoughts, feelings, etc. But the ego is not the self! the ego is the false self center! Beyond this ego lies our true self, which we can experience only when we dissolve our egos, through any means. Our egos are the things that get in our way of experience, as it puts us in a linguistic cage. If one can let go of his ego, he can leave his cage and enter into the experience of reality, also called the "now"

The ego is created by the mind. You said if the ego is gone, then there should be no way of confirming this. This is wrong. The ego is gone but the self remains. You think you are the lightbulb, but you are the electricity that flows through it. You are not your eyes, you are the soul that sees through them. You are not your mind, you are the essence of which uses it!

When you drop your ego and come to realize that you still are, even without it, without any attachments whatsoever, you still remain. This is the self realization timothy leary was talking about. Dont be fooled. BY dropping all things and realizing you still are there, you become a witness to your self because you realize you still are. This establishing a witness to your true self, the self without an ego and attachments, IS YOGA! YOGA IS THE UNION OF OURSELVES WITH THE DIVINE! this is done THROUGH NON ATTACHMENT AND EGO LOSS!

 

[Kometgutten]

Where DMT kind of gives you a hug, salvia throws you on the ground and laughs at you. Some people really don't like it for that reason.

I know I am late to the party, but if you think DMT gives you a hug, I am really sorry for your future wife... I have never tried salvia, and I doubt I'll ever try it, but I am still having a hard time getting rid of the fear I build up after my first trip on DMT. I've tripped on it several times afterwards, but I still feel fear and anxiety.

 

[ziggo]

I've experience ego death quite a few times, mostly on DXM or mescaline, but also on simply weed. I'll explain ego death as simple as I can, it is merely losing the egos hold on your mind, which in turn shows you that you are made of powers greater then the mind.

Your body is the lowest power of you. Your senses are a higher power then the body. Your mind is a higher power then the senses. Your consciousness is a higher power then the mind. Finally AWARENESS is a higher power then the consciousness of yourself. At least I think that was how it goes. Anyways during ego death you simply learn that your real self is a mix of your awareness and how it interacts with your consciousness and vice versa. Everything below these two during the experience is only the same as the mere material things around you, unimportant as you are transcending your thoughts to not have interest in them, until you regain your ego and reintegrate what you have learned and experienced from the loss/death. Do not fear ego loss/death as it comes on, simply let go and know that you will be fine and come back more complete and whole then when you left it.

 

[drseltsam]

Dear bluelighters,


Last weekend I consumed 270 mg of heavily purified cactus extract. I am not sure how high the percentage of mescaline actually was but Marquis testing indicated that mescaline was present. I did the extraction myself - no dealer involved. I never took such a high dose of psychedelics before. The closest thing to this was 160 mg of cactus extract.


The come up was easy and nice. I felt euphoria, very comfortable with my body, some visuals etc. Sometimes I was just sitting in the lotus position, very focused on just being. It was a very nice experience at first.


Until around 3h30 after ingestion my ego died. I felt like everything I am or I experiencing was shattered in pieces. Distributed in some strange space. There was no structure left to understand anything. When this started I was looking at the stop watch I stated when ingesting the drug I nearly panicked as I realised that 3h40 was not even at peak.


The state was really annoying and terrifying. What help me tremendously was my meditation practice. I sat or lay down, focused on my breath and tried to ignore everything else. At some point I lost every sense of self and nearly every sense of time which made me afraid I might die because I forget to breath - I could no longer tell how much time passed between between exhaling and inhaling. I had very nice trip sitters holding my hand and assuring me that I will be fine - which of cause also helped a lot. Eventually, the whole thing ended and everything came back together. It was a very interesting experience to come back together but I wouldn’t mind not making this experience again.


Thus my question: how does this work for you? Do you experience ego death every time you go above a certain dose or does it happen more randomly? Say, the higher you go, the higher the chance of ego death becomes? Is is very depended on set and setting or more something that is triggered by just dose?

 

[Xorkoth]

For me it's quite random, it has hit me at much lower dosages as other trips sometimes. I'd say a high dosage makes it more likely, but it's no guarantee at all. Many times with a psychedelic, I can dose very high and be tripping very hard, but it won't trigger an ego death. Every so often something does though, I can't say what it is, seems like everything just aligns in that moment or something.

It's important to be able to let go during an ego death sort of experience. Hanging on, worrying about death, etc are hard not to do sometimes, but they will make it a fearful or uncomfortable experience. If you can let go, it can instead be something truly glorious.

 

[drseltsam]

Xorkoth, thanks for your answer. This is pretty close to what I would have guessed: a higher dose makes it more likely, depending on set and setting.

Good advice. I tried to calm down myself when I panicked by focusing on my breath but I never tried to fight the process of loosing the ego. When it started I said to myself: No one EVER died from mescaline alone. You are perfectly healthy at the moment - you will be fine. This helped to some degree What didn't help was that the overall feeling was very close to dreaming with high fever. It was just not nice. Perhaps this was due to the low blood sugar level I had at this point. When the peak was over, I noticed that I was freezing because I only ate a tiny bit for breakfast and nothing until 6pm. I guess this might have played a role as well - we will never know for sure.

I know this is a bit of topic: I took the mescaline dissolved in water on an empty stomach sip by sip during 40 minutes together with raw ginger (just eating the root). Would you recommend eating something between at some point before the trip begins? Perhaps this would prevent this low blood sugar problem I had?

 

[Xorkoth]

I will often eat a very light meal maybe an hour before I take a psychedelic. Something easily digestible and don't get full. This seems to stimulate the metabolism, resulting in fast absorption and providing energy for the trip.

 

[swilow]

Definitely food before and even during a trip, particularly with something that can cause nausea like mescaline. Something to keep blood sugar steady like dried or fresh fruit. A sweet orange tastes amazing on the psychedelic tongue. Low blood sugar can trigger panic symptoms like depersonalisation and whatnot.

My last ego death experience on DMT a few months back still haunts me. It was beautiful and insectile but quite traumatic. I get rather regular flashback type feelings, especially now that I'm in a very uneasy mindstate... I question the value of such traumatic experiences tbh. But it was amazing and gave me food for thought.

 

[drseltsam]

@Xorkoth, thanks for the advice. I will try something like this next time

@swilow, I didn't do it as Shulgin always told his test group to skip breakfast when testing new compounds. Also many people fast one day before. I guess I will go with Xorkoth's advice to eat something small before and then have fruit and so on. Let's see if it gets better with this.

I am sorry to hear that your experience still haunts you. Did you try to write it down and to go through it in your mind or with someone else to get rid of the trauma?

 

[Xorkoth]

I personally disagree with fasting for any significant length of time before psychedelics, except perhaps if you're used to fasting and using it as part of a practice or something. It can't be healthy to go into a taxing experience without having energized your body and ingested necessary nutrients. In my opinion, your stomach should be digesting a small amount of food when you take it, seems to work best for me with less chance of nausea that way. I also really enjoy eating on psychedelics, when it's fully developed and maybe I get hungry, but back when I started using them eating seemed weird while tripping, but these days eating feels fine, even great.

 

[drseltsam]

Xorkoth, thanks for the advice. It somehow seems logical but if Shulgin did it, who am I? I'll try next time and see how it goes

 

[swilow]

^Shulgin had some good ideas, ands some not so good. He made some drugs but isn't infallible. Not that you're saying that.

For me, low blood sugar is not pleasant, I would not fast unless taking Ayahuasca.

I am sorry to hear that your experience still haunts you. Did you try to write it down and to go through it in your mind or with someone else to get rid of the trauma?

It haunts me in a good way, I loove the DMT state. Trauma is just a word to describe it, but its s positive trauma in many ways.

I was told to tell EVERYONE to take DMT, like it was my mission. The entities wrre very verbose during that trip. Subsequent trips have been different, the last one had me hysterically laughing at how much the words 'peanut butter' feel like peanut butter itself. :D profundity versus banality.

 

[PsychaStevic]

Personally I think to achieve ego death, you can't go into the trip specifically trying to achieve this, it's a random occurrence that you have to learn to deal with on the spot. I've had it happen to me at a wide range of doses, from 200ug in my very early days of using psychedelics to 800ug recently. Oddly enough the one time I went to 1mg I didn't get any feelings of ego death. It was actually a carefree trip.

 

[heatlessbbq]

 

[Cyanoide]

I've achieved ego death only a few times, with either a monster dose or a combination of different substances.

50 mg 4-HO-MiPT was enough to flip backwards when sitting in the sofa, through the wall, and having no contact to my physical body. I was basically a fractal that rode on chains of unfathomably beautiful fractal chains.

I've written a trip report about both experiences here:

http://bluelight.org/vb/threads/612945-50-mg-4-HO-MiPT-Experienced-Reality-is-no-more?highlight=4-HO-MiPT

The other one was with a combination of 25C-NBOMe, 4-HO-DPT and MXE. That was the most intense trip in my life and I wouldn't do it again. It's not something I would advise for beginners, it was really extreme, and earth-shattering.

http://bluelight.org/vb/threads/583312-25C-NBOMe-4-HO-DPT-Methoxetamine-The-most-intense-trip-in-my-life?highlight=4-HO-DPT

 

[jezpe]

I dont know if you can call my experience ego-death bcos i didnt bother read all the analysis you guys put in here . maybe more fitting name is out of body experience. Once i ate around 5g shrooms, and i the best way to describe it is i didnt exist anymore only the music and the impossibly beautiful "machines" that were morphing nonstop. I felt that i had broken down in atoms and just floating around in energy vibes with the music. No clue what is human or what is time or what is anything real. i couldnt see anything real only these extremely beautiful visuals. i didnt know i was home my atoms was floating in outerspace. Everything lost meaning and it was facking beautiful just float in space. Maybe this is ego-death? Dont really care what you call it, it was extremely beautiful for me.

 

[jezpe]

And ill probably try similiar or bigger dose next year maybe combo lsd and shrooms when peaking.