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EASE - Now illegal

it's a fancy arrangement of methoxy groups, kinda. A methoxy is a alkoxy.

Making it covered under the analogue laws...how does the presence of a ketone effect this interpretation?
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The ketone stops that interpretation, as the ketone is not covered.
 
Yup already realized that re: that conclusion, really should have retracted that statement.
Not at liberty to discuss other factors.
 
What do they care, they got to try methylone.


you mean they got to try some random drug, that they have now just found out was methylone?

supposedly this project was dedicated to harm reduction, yet they sold drugs to people without telling them what they were taking. Sounds like the only harm being prevented here was the harm to their bottom line
 
well with the way that BZP production ballooned outta control it was one way of attempting to stop that happening with methylone. I can understand why you're writing the same thing in every damn thread on the subject, but it seems like it was a trade off - either let everyone know its methylone and risk unscrupulous vendors pushing the product in a harmful way, or keep distribution and info controlled to a group of people who are giving you feedback untill enough info ius gathered so that a presentation can be given to the govenrment and the chemical made legal for human consumption.

what i find hard to understand is how something that is an analogue of something can be considered to have the same toxic properties, without any tests being done. Its not like there have been that many conclusive tests that say 100% (meth)cathinone is bad for us, even the data on MDMA being neurotoxic seems to be disputed one day, confirmed the next, then disputed the day after. yet because methylone is from this family its instantly toxic and gets banned without any research?

if thats the case why are little kids getting dexamphetamine? its definatly an analogue of amphetamine (hell it is amphetamine for all intents and purposes) so going by that logic it is neurotoxic. yet its allowed to be prescribed for daily use. yet here is a compound that is related to cathinone and deemed neurotoxic without any real data on it.

it makes no sense to a thinking person. :(
 
either let everyone know its methylone and risk unscrupulous vendors pushing the product in a harmful way, or keep distribution and info controlled to a group of people who are giving you feedback untill enough info ius gathered so that a presentation can be given to the govenrment and the chemical made legal for human consumption


this guy is an unscrupulous dealer.. i mean he used humans as lab rats in an attempt to gather data to find out of a drug is safe.

It's one thing to tell people, here this is what is, research it, learn as much as you can about it, and decide if you think it's something you want to take. but to keep that information away from people in an attempt to avoid competition and boost profits shows a complete lack of respect for those who are consuming the test product.
 
Eeeurgh.
Extrapolating results in animals to predict effects in humans is misguided and dangerous and, most of all, barbaric.

I strongly agree with marklar - it IS rediculous.
The simple minded will look at the structures and say "Har har, look at that - it's almost exactly the same! I'll just assume that the effects and dangers are the same too!". Which is NOT the case. (Comparing MDMA to Methylone)

IMO laws that legislate based on structure rather than effect is a huge breach of "innocent till proven guilty" but in a molecular sense - you're assuming that stuff similar in structure will be similar in effect too, which any good chemist knows is absolute bollocks. Take MeOH and EtOH for (a poor) example... ethanol is used as a popular intoxicant with mild toxcicity but the presence or absence of one carbon (making Methanol and Propanol, respectively) makes it highly toxic.

And no, i'm not in any way connected with Stargate.
 
frizzantik said:
either let everyone know its methylone and risk unscrupulous vendors pushing the product in a harmful way, or keep distribution and info controlled to a group of people who are giving you feedback untill enough info ius gathered so that a presentation can be given to the govenrment and the chemical made legal for human consumption


this guy is an unscrupulous dealer.. i mean he used humans as lab rats in an attempt to gather data to find out of a drug is safe.

It's one thing to tell people, here this is what is, research it, learn as much as you can about it, and decide if you think it's something you want to take. but to keep that information away from people in an attempt to avoid competition and boost profits shows a complete lack of respect for those who are consuming the test product.
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What profits? These people were taking ecstasy pills, in which they also didn't know what was in them, just an educated guess.

Methylone is not new. The only reason it was in a 'trial' is for the governments sake.

Pushing the product? Are you insane? You had to be oever 21, be a user of ecstasy, provide two forms of ID, and only be able to get 4 pills from them, and them alone, and it had to be in person.

It's hardly as if they were selling it in a dariy, like what happend to bzp party pills... >_>

[EDIT], Another article on it. It says the dose was 100mg a pill. http://www.publicaddress.net/default,hardnews.sm
 
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Extrapolating results in animals to predict effects in humans is misguided and dangerous and, most of all, barbaric.


and giving untested drugs directly to humans, and refusing to tell them anything about the drug for fear of loss of profit is somehow less dangerous and barbaric?
 
Clicnical trial my arse. Real clicnical trials the people would be told exactly what they are taking (unless it was a double blind one but even then they would be told later.

From what I can see stargate had no intention of telling its "customers" what exactly was in the pills.

The fact that they made out like they had invented a new product in their research labs is also the biggest joke in history. Their idea of inventing is reading erowid then ordering methylone online.

People here are saying it was so good value for 4 pills. They are not mentioning you needed to take at least 4 pills for the stuff to actually hit you. The price was around 50 dollars for those pills. It is way cheaper to buy methylone illicitly. Even cheaper to buy real eccstasy. At least with real ecstasy pills you can test them to find out whats in them.

You cant tell me that someone wasnt profiting from these pills. The amount they where charging for them was way more then what they would have cost to produce.
 
These people were taking ecstasy pills, in which they also didn't know what was in them, just an educated guess


and we have many harm reduction agencies who try their hardest to tell people what are in those pills.

of course then we have this so-called harm reduction agency actually selling untested drugs and refusing to tell anyone what they were taking. imagine if someone had a bad reaction and had to go to the hospital.. they'd have nothing to tell the doctors about the chemical they consumed.

You had to be oever 21, be a user of ecstasy, provide two forms of ID, and only be able to get 4 pills from them, and them alone, and it had to be in person.


these are the rules if you wanted to be involved with the trial "study", right? we don't know under what circumstances these pills would have been sold under, assuming Ease has been oked for general use.

I wouldn't even care if there were sold right next to the BZP pills in corner stores, assuming they were properly labeled with their contents and dosage.
 
frizzantik said:
either let everyone know its methylone and risk unscrupulous vendors pushing the product in a harmful way, or keep distribution and info controlled to a group of people who are giving you feedback untill enough info ius gathered so that a presentation can be given to the govenrment and the chemical made legal for human consumption


this guy is an unscrupulous dealer.. i mean he used humans as lab rats in an attempt to gather data to find out of a drug is safe.
Click to expand...

so how else do you find out if a drug is safe? sure you can test on rats and that would tell you if its not going to kill a person, but to really know what a drugs going to do to a person, they have to take it. I agree that it would of been best if the users signed an NDA and were told what they were using (the journalists were) however, the alternative was letting the chemical be known and having the authorities go apeshit when they see "3,4 methylenedioxy" and think, "now what was the start of the ecstacy stucture... oh, 3,4 methylenedioxy! BANN THIS THING" which is pretty much what happened when the ingredient was found out (cept they used cathinone, which to my knowledge has not been proven to be dangerous, just fun). If he had some tests which showed that its non toxic, he could fight the knee jerk reaction.

I do think he handled the clinical trial wrong. He should of done it the same way a pharma company does. The problem that i see is the other BZP companies, especially the ones not in the industry group. would you really want every other BZP producer jumping on the methylone bandwagon and put out pill after pill in dariys and near schools and such? at least his distribution was controlled. even if it was flawed. charging for them was pretty bad IMHO, im sure he can absorb the cost of a "clinical trial" with all the BZP he's sold. So i can understand what you're saying...

It's one thing to tell people, here this is what is, research it, learn as much as you can about it, and decide if you think it's something you want to take. but to keep that information away from people in an attempt to avoid competition and boost profits shows a complete lack of respect for those who are consuming the test product.
Click to expand...

Thats assuming it was competition he was avoiding. There's a difference between stopping compeditors from making money and stopping competitors from ruining whole 'legal party pill' business. Just look at the public outrage when a party pill vendor opened up near a school. Thats just fucking stupid, you know that a shop like that near a school is asking for trouble, but that vendor did it. There are lots of fucking assholes who would be happy to make a quick buck and ruin the 'legal party drug' phenominom. I cant beleive that NZ has taken this approach to methamphetamine and i applaud it, and i'd like to see it come into australia. Alot of the media concern that i've read is mostly about how visible they are, and that there are people putting ridiculous amounts like 1g of BZP into pills. But that is still better than only being able to get meth. i think most people using meth will agree. we love meth, and we hate it at the same time.

If he had of finshed his trials and presented the data to the gov. and they approved it, THEN he didnt tell people what it was they were consuming, well, that would be "boosting profits and showing a complete lack of respect to consumers". As it stands i think he just made a bad deceision with the best of intentions.
 
Hang on, hang on, hang on.

Let me get this straight. When the BZP guy was giving these people methylone, he wasn't telling them what was in it?
 
nor what the dosage was, from what i gather, not like it matters if you have no idea what it is
 
Hi,

I've posted in one of the other threads here on this subject already, am more than happy to come back and answer specific questions on why we made the decisions we made, but will be more specific AFTER the investigation is all over, bear with me that I'm limited on legal advice on what I can say publicly at the moment as the allegations against us are of a reasonably serious criminal nature, although I do not believe that I have committed any offence.

I'll flick through the thread and hit on a pile of topics, excuse the jumpy nature of the post.

We were operating on top level advice, a new legal interpretation came along so we suspended the project. It is easy to say retrospectively that some of the advice we got may not have been so good, that remains to be seen.

You do need to realise that nobody was forced to take part, they did so willingly, we took legal and ethical advice on the project, if anybody wanted to know specifics about the molecule and they couldn't work it out for themselves they were quite welcome to not take part in the trial, everybody had that choice and they used their free will and made a choice. Reality is that a lot of people knew exactly what they were taking, but it didn't end up getting sold by the gram in every corner store.

Another reality is that people were using this product in place of black market drugs, where once again, even with test kits, they don't know what they're getting.

Some of the details posted above on screening criteria are not correct, there was a lot more to it than that, we had user monitoring, alcohol and drug clinical assessments, more detail will follow at a later date.

I'm always interested to absorb constructive criticism, I think this model of distribution was better than the "pills in every corner store available to everybody" model, some may disagree, they're welcome to do so.

I think it is also superior to the "black market drug" situation.

More than happy to listen to constructive advice now or to discuss specifics at a later date.

I think you'll find I have similar views to many of you all here, I'm tryin to develop alternative models to the drug prohibition systems we have in our countries at the moment. I have got some positive change in my country and hopefully it can be used as a case study elsewhere.

It does cost quite a lot to do what we're doing, so if we can get over the "money" argument in here which I am sick of getting thrashed on in the public media every day would be a nice change.

Like most peole I have a mortgage, 1 new car that works and 1 that needs work, a family, some admin staff and some technical staff, and I've walked away from more cash than I've banked.

I don't agree that if I had told everybody the name of the chemical so they could go and read trip reports on erowid that they would then be in a better position, sure we can all google but do you really think the average person is therefore well enough equipped to make themselves a decent risk assessment?

Several govt agencies had full disclosure on what we were doing along with hospital staff in case of incident, to the best of my knowledge there were no incidents requiring attention, (other than one person fell over and the attending doctors agreed it was unrelated) overall everybody seemed extremely happy.

P.L.U.R.
 
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kittyinthedark said:
It certainly wouldn't be in America, or probably any other "western" country. If you do a bit of searching online, you'll find all the thought experiment-type trials that show that alcohol and nicotine don't come within lightyears of being acceptable by FDA standards in America. I'm quite sure they don't meet the criteria of even the more lax European drug auditing system.

I just find it both funny and disturbing that any chemical that makes people feel good is automatically deemed to be a scourge on society. By the logic behind banning methylone, which from what I can tell is a fairly benign drug, every antidepressant should also be banned, as should every ADHD med...
Click to expand...

I completely agree with every word of that
 
About Stargate...

starboy said:
You do need to realise that nobody was forced to take part, they did so willingly, we took legal and ethical advice on the project, if anybody wanted to know specifics about the molecule and they couldn't work it out for themselves they were quite welcome to not take part in the trial, everybody had that choice and they used their free will and made a choice. Reality is that a lot of people knew exactly what they were taking, but it didn't end up getting sold by the gram in every corner store.
Click to expand...

Good point, but that just goes to show you how much we need to reseach and develop safer, even better reacreational drugs. Why not? Viagra. Cialis. Arousal pills but not euphoric pills? Never has made a bit of sense to me. The demand is overwhelming, and only a select few understand the chemistry/physiological connections associated with our widespread habit of street drugs, bath-tub fentanyl and methamphetamine. Ecstacy labs on college campuses, children spending life in jail for operating clandestine labs to produce dangerously unrefined controlled substances.

Don't give up man.
 
was Ease any good? or anything like ecstasy for that matter?
 
If you do a search on methylone then you will find a few trip reports on BL. In short, it's a "trip" of two halves IMO. The first 90 mins are very similar to MDMA in some regards, not quite as in your face, but very euphoric none the less. However, after about 90 mins or so that high goes away and is replaced with a very unpleasant (again IMO) jittery, physical stimulant feeling - you know, heart racing etc. And no matter how much you redose you can't get the initial high back, just more speedyness.
 
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