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  • AADD Moderators: swilow | Vagabond696

ease? mdma alternative trials

^He was making money off fools.

Quite simply put. Regardless if he says "harm minimisation" it means fuck all. He made people pay to be his labrats - that in itself rises the eyebrows.

Shouldn't these people be paid to take what could possibly be causing them damage - especially if he planned to launch what will inevitably become an ilegal substance?

A step in the right direction maybe, but how long can you expect to reap rewards with an obsvious ulterior motive. Shit he was probably getting the chems from (insert well known chem distro. here) in asia, and just marking them up, mixing them with binders and yelling "WOOPEEE".
 
zaineaol.nu said:
You guys should quit following this idiot - any way - you all know, no matter how hard you try - if the government finds any kind of chemical responsible for getting you high - it will be labled dangerous and taken off the market - and those responsible are demonised. Would you not expect that anyway?
Click to expand...

Well, BZP is still legal in NZ.

BTW - He would have known it was Methylone - no way can the director of a DRUGS company not know what he's selling.
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Well, yes. If you read the article I linked to, it states that he cleared the sale of Ease with the Ministry of Health. They confirmed that methylone was legal. Also, journalists (like the author of the article I linked to) had been informed of the ingredients, they'd just signed agreements not to write about them while the trial was going on.

I would be more comfortable if he'd publicised what was in Ease. But some people knew: the Ministry of Health knew. Journalists, some of whom had taken the drug, knew. And if I was going to research it, all I'd have done was visit Erowid, and given that Matt Bowden has written for Erowid, I'd say he would have done just as much research as I would have.
 
zaineaol.nu said:
...He knew he was making money off you idiots....
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Just to let you know, im not an idiot LOL and to be honest it was worth the money for x4 pills or 10 x 4pack bundles (which didnt cost an arm and a leg, more like 1 finger-heh). So I am glad I got my big order before the pills were taken off stargate. Thanks everyone for replying to the post, it started from legal trials to now illegal within a week and since MOH approved importation, I wonder if they will check quota to how much Methylone was in per pill+how much was imported..
EDIT. Thought ill take out parts so not to get myself in the crap concerning liquid methylone+capsules popping up in the cbd during the past week?!.
 
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johnboy said:
ALL drugs have risks. This was an exercise in trying to find a drug with less risk.
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Exactly. Although I wondered about the ethics of the trial, I support what I believe Stargate is/was trying to do - market a 'legal' 'less harmful' MDMA alternative. It would never be harmless, and Stargate never said it was harmless.

Given the trial has been stopped, I think Stargate should at least publish the results of their trials - feedback from participants, including any adverse reactions and number of person participating who were satisfied with the product.

We know that many people don't want to stop taking MDMA, even when they are aware of associated risks. If it could be demonstrated that methylenedioxymethcathinone (MDMC) is less risky compared to MDMA, perhaps a regulated market could be developed?

(wakes up from dream where Johnny Howard / George W. Bush no longer at the healm) 8)
 
The idea of knowing where your pill has been produced and exactly what the contents are is a sound one, it takes the reverse approach to reagent testing of pills. Its just a shame how it all was played out and that it probably won't be possible to continue.
 
zaineaol.nu said:
LOL and you just tell us you bought a big lot of it.

QUICK SOMEONE RING THE BELLS
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Thats cos I got nothing to hide! as long as its not jingle bells :p I got them before they were confiscated, theyve (stargate) got a photocopy of my passport which had to be verified by justice of the peace, so im not worried if the boys n blue have my info from Stargate, as far as I know theyve only confiscated the pills, until further advice/action. I went to login to the stargate forum, but now offline.. Someone needs to make a 'super pill' that is 100% safe, legal and better than street/illegal shit.
 
LOL, I remember someone mentioning this Bowden guy was a BLer... in reply to some posts in another thread, it became quite obsvious who he was, what a lamer - money grubbin wank - actually adverting his stuff on BL like a fucking tv salesman - made me sick "Ease is a 100% NEW COMPOUND" pfft my foot.
 
Zaineaol. Your reactionary and slanted posts attacking matt bowden for his actions stem from a gross misunderstanding of the aims which were sought after and are more akin to views i would expect to hear coming from a republican senator. Furthermore, you are an australian, this took place in new zealand. You are in no position to judge the potential efficacy of various pushes towards harm reduction as you know nothing about our present legislative environment.

People who buy a mystery substance which has been shown in various trials to be a relatively safe and legal alternative to ecstasy are not idiots. Trusting matt bowden on his word is something that many people with experience in the nz community are happy to do.

Thus far the results of our 'idiocy':
- We have taken methylone instead of mdma on a number of occaisions, reducing damage to our serotonin neurons.
- We have tried a new drug which i find as interesting as mdma in a number of ways (can anybody say LOVEY?!)
- We have had the peace of mind of knowing that there is nothing shockingly harmful/trippy/inactive in our pills, and have thus potentially saved money and ensured a good night every time
- We have been part of a wider movement towards harm minimisation, and taken part in a trial that may help advance the causes of the drug user community in both this country and yours.

On the flipside:
- This 'RC' COULD have been super harmful super dodgy and we could have all died (it wasnt)
- We could have imported it cheaper ourselves (I couldnt be arsed)

Now um,

Would you care to explain again why trial participants are idiots?
 
^I for one appreciate everything that you are doing.

This is definitely on the right track for harm minimisation.
 
Cyberdyne said:
Zaineaol. Your reactionary and slanted posts attacking matt bowden for his actions stem from a gross misunderstanding of the aims which were sought after and are more akin to views i would expect to hear coming from a republican senator. Furthermore, you are an australian, this took place in new zealand. You are in no position to judge the potential efficacy of various pushes towards harm reduction as you know nothing about our present legislative environment.

People who buy a mystery substance which has been shown in various trials to be a relatively safe and legal alternative to ecstasy are not idiots. Trusting matt bowden on his word is something that many people with experience in the nz community are happy to do.

Thus far the results of our 'idiocy':
- We have taken methylone instead of mdma on a number of occaisions, reducing damage to our serotonin neurons.
- We have tried a new drug which i find as interesting as mdma in a number of ways (can anybody say LOVEY?!)
- We have had the peace of mind of knowing that there is nothing shockingly harmful/trippy/inactive in our pills, and have thus potentially saved money and ensured a good night every time
- We have been part of a wider movement towards harm minimisation, and taken part in a trial that may help advance the causes of the drug user community in both this country and yours.

On the flipside:
- This 'RC' COULD have been super harmful super dodgy and we could have all died (it wasnt)
- We could have imported it cheaper ourselves (I couldnt be arsed)

Now um,

Would you care to explain again why trial participants are idiots?
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umm, i lived in nz for about 4 years man.. wellington too...

I think you guys followed a False Mesiah, who evidently, his only goal was to make money off fools. Seriously? as if it can be considered safe with so little research.... as if he didnt think $$$$... advertising his drug in his post.

He's a false profit, a liar, and a cheat. simple...

Don't agree, it doesnt matter - your the fools who follow him. Any drug which people use for fun, other than alcohol will be criminalised so as not to make the country look bad to the zero tollerance political view of other nations.

"anything good in life is either ilegal, immoral or fattening" - Perhaps you should learn that - because its the truth.

I'm all for legal drugs, but i'm not all for lying. this guy LIED to you all, he knew what it was, he knew he'd get done in - he wanted $.
 
zaineaol.nu said:
I'm all for legal drugs, but i'm not all for lying. this guy LIED to you all, he knew what it was, he knew he'd get done in - he wanted $.
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Actually the ministry of health granted him permission to import Methylone, because yes, they knew it was methylone! as for $, as I said before 4 pills/pack, with 1 being the equivalent to a 100mg/120mg MDMA pill and similiar effect if not stronger, did not cost an arm and a leg. Matt gets my full respect, cos he+members of the green party were at the early auckland/'raves' testing our MDMA pills circa 96 - 99, making you 9 or 10 years old at the time. Im from the hutt, which area were living in welly? just out of interest..



EDIT: zaineaol.nu was 12 years old in 99. Its cool zain whatever!!, true regardless of age, but not maturity.
 
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99 = 12.... :p...

regardless of my age at the time, doesn't mean money didn't get to his head.

It's still foolish to believe in him as some 'drug prophet' - because it's evident that his faith in his own product, and the way he spoke of it that he was just another (for lack of better word) tv evangelist. Get grips - selling any drugs which will, without a doubt - be made ilegal - is a stupid idea i nthe first place -he'd have done better to not have done something like that and allow people to import if if thats what they want? true?.

Now you're all faced with a drug about to be criminalised before PROPER research is done into the toxicology of the substance - thus making you lose out.

That is my argument.
 
You don't see the positive side to anything or anyone do you?
 
zaineaol.nu said:
I think you guys followed a False Mesiah, who evidently, his only goal was to make money off fools. [snip]
He's a false profit, a liar, and a cheat. simple...
[snip]
I'm all for legal drugs, but i'm not all for lying. this guy LIED to you all, he knew what it was, he knew he'd get done in - he wanted $.
Click to expand...

Anyone who knows the first thing about Matt Bowden knows what his goals are. To enlighten yourself, Google 'Dai Bowden'. If you can't find anything, click on my sig, go to the index page, and look it up there.

You keep saying MB lied. How did he lie? Did he say 'Ease contains [substance x]' when it didn't? No.

You keep saying "he knew what it was". Of course he did. He knew what it was. He told journalists what it was. He told the Ministry of Health what it was. He didn't tell users what it was, and I think maybe he should have. That's different from lying. And as I said before, I trust him. I trust Russell Brown (who knew what it was). I actually trust the NZ Ministry of Health, too.

The bottom line is that all the New Zealanders in this thread trust him.
All of us, who understand the situation here, trust him.
Some of us are very knowledgeable about drugs, and they trust him.
The only criticism is coming from people who aren't living here, and don't understand the situation.
 
Here is the press release from Stargate:

7 April 2006

EASE trial terminated after conflicting advice.

Stargate International today announced its decision to terminate a non-therapeutic clinical trial after receiving conflicting opinions on the legality of one of the compounds in the ecstasy alternative "EASE".

Stargate International is an organisation committed to the reduction of drug-related harm through the development of safer, legal alternatives.

Stargate Founder Matt Bowden said the trial had been conducted based on assurances from Government agencies that the substance was legal. He said with a new opinion coming to light the decision was made yesterday to immediately suspend the trial until the situation was clarified.

"There is a difference of opinion between the initial advice we received from the government and this new alternative interpretation of the law. Rather than slug this out with the government we have taken the proactive and responsible step of suspending the trial immediately.

"We apologise to all trial participants for any inconvenience caused, we are doing something new in society and it does take time to get these things right."

Mr. Bowden confirmed a number of steps were taken to check that the product was legal, including informing the Ministry of Health and obtaining written consent that the product was not an analogue of a controlled drug and able to be imported into New Zealand.

The non therapeutic clinical trial was being carried out as part of a search for safer alternatives to ecstasy. The trial was raised with the Ministry of Health and the Expert Advisory Committee on Drugs months ago and no objections were raised.

“This was a well conducted and controlled trial that was a part of our drive to minimize the harm caused by illegal drugs. Despite the suspension of this trial we will continue our efforts down this path because this approach saves lives,” said Mr. Bowden.

“At all times Stargate has acted in the belief we were complying with the law.

“At all times we went to great lengths to inform Government agencies of our plans. We checked the legality of this compound with the Ministry of Health and we received written consent to import it.

“While we are very surprised to now receive contradictory advice, this stage of the trial was near an end. We will continue to co-operate fully with the Government and its agencies on this matter.”

Matt Bowden
Click to expand...
 
Hi,

I've read through the various comments here, just wanted to pop in and say hello. Given the criminal nature of the allegations made against us I am on legal advice not to make too much public comment on these issues, although I would have loved to address a number of things raised here. so forgive me if I can't address everything.

What has already been said is that this was a non therapeutic clinical trial, that Stargate took top level legal advice on the trial format. Although not required to do so by law they also took ethical advice and followed it. I would like to point out that had they been primarily concerned with profiteering, they could have mass produced these pills and put them into every corner store in the country with no restrictions and sold many more of them. As it was, they set the age limit to 21, every participant was screened, took part under informed consent and usage was monitored. Those of you who know Stargate's business model would know that they sow back into the community anyway.

It is true that people could have sourced their own materials more cheaply, as is the case with home brew beer and wine kits. People can build their own kit cars, too. However the majority of people find it more convenient to buy a ready made product. Stargate cater to those people, but I don't think we should equate these consumers' decisions with idiocy. Stargate gave consumers information on which to base their decision if they were asked for it.

I don't think I have told any lies, and from observation those who took part in the trial were of a mature and reasonably intelligent nature. Nobody was compelled or forced to take part. Many applicants were excluded from taking part.

You'll note that in the media Stargate referred to previous studies on this compound which should be your first clue that it was not a novel compound, I am certain that there were no messianic claims made directly by me. I am comfortable with advising that I am only human.

My primary goal other than developing safer drug alternatives is to demonstrate alternative models for drug policy. There are many who find fault with prohibition, but to date alternative structures are few and far between. The model I advocate and believe will be adopted in some places eventually is one where other recreational substances are regulated in a similar way to alcohol with industry tempered at some level with members of the treatment community and government health agencies. The model is economically viable, sustainable and protects certain individual rights.

It is well documented that my motivations for what I do lie in personal tragedy, and a belief that fundamentally mercy triumphs over judgement.

It is all about reducing the harms associated with alcohol and drug usage.

The results of the research will be published and made available to others in the field, I think it has been an extremely worthwhile project and apologise to anybody inconvenienced by the interference pattern.

I apologise also for the poor hairstyling in one of the newsclips, as it is not fairly representative of the kiwi dance community.

PLUR
 
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Cheers for posting :)

Good luck with the pending media and legal issues.
 
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