DXM Polystirex to regular DXM

[MurphyClox]

Limonene is so called lemon cleaner, a probably non-toxic solvent similar to toluene. It's not soluble in water, like naphtha. It's also sold food grade as a flavourant. It smells intensely citrusy.

While limonene itself it not really toxic for humans, it easily oxidizes upon contact with air oxygen, thus creating limonenoxide (sorry, the link is in german only). These are potent allergens! Therefore, I advise some care when handling the stuff.

- Murphy

 

[rentmitchum]

Why not just buy a bottle of cough syrup/cough gels containing only DXM HBr?

Well I was asking for someone who wanted to know because, like someone else said, Delsym might be a good source for DXM for them if it would work.

I also think the subject is very interesting scientifically. I actually have no vested interest in the topic at hand, I really am asking for a friend. I am however trying to understand and interpret it to said friend, and also it's really interesting..

Always fun to learn something new, I say.

So it sounded like I understood your limonene idea.. but if it oxidizes easily into an allergen, then maybe that's a bad idea for people with allergies? Or is this allergen in the sense that it will stimulate an allergic response in anyone, not just people with allergies?

Does limonene evaporate cleanly? My best guess is no, if it has a lemony smell.. but if it did, couldn't you mix DXM Poly with limonene to dissolve the polystyrene, then evaporate the limonene to yield DXM sulphate? I assume the addition of the aqueous solution was because limonene wouldn't evaporate cleanly..

Lets see.. what else.. the ethanol idea, maybe use the totse thing to get a bunch of DXM poly out by itself, then dissolve it in ethanol and evaporate? What about acetone, could polystyrene dissolve in acetone? Then evaporate the acetone and have DXM sulphate?

If any of these ideas worked, does anyone have any idea of the bioavailability of DXM sulphate? I know other drugs are in a sulphate form, but I also know that doesn't necessarily mean anything. Would DXM sulphate likely be healthier, avoiding the risks associated with bromine?

Thank you for putting your 2 cents in Ylide. I'll admit, the physics stuff goes over my head (i guess it's still chemistry maybe, i'm not really versed in either).. usually I'd look it up, but I am and .. from a beginner's point of view, I don't know how well I can understand it without going back to school and taking more classes in the sciences.. lol

So now your idea nuke is basically either

A:
Add limonene to milled polystirex powder till dissolved, add acidified water, the acidified water would pull the polystyrene out and hope the DXM stays in the limonene.. then discard the water, add regular water in, then hope the DXM pulls out of the limonene into the water.. save the limonene for future use or discard..

or

B:
Add limonene to milled polystirex powder till dissolved, add a basified solution.. then.. let the layers separate.. discard the water with the polystrex.. then add acidified water to the limonene, mix and separate, then the water would finally end up with the DXM?

Or maybe with the basifying you're trying to make the DXM non-sulfate so it will separate from the polystyrene more easily?

lol excuse my ignorance if any of that sounds outright stupid. I'm working with the amount of knowledge I have, and looking up covalent bonds and .. anions and stuff didn't do me any good.. Somehow my school didn't make chemistry necessary to graduate, and I heard lots of horror stories from other people in the grades ahead of us. Half the people who took it seemed to fail, so I opted for easier science classes. Back then I wasn't good at the sciences at all. Now I've learned more about physics and chemistry since leaving school than I did in school. I would wish I had taken more science classes but.. I didn't have the ability back then.

Anyway, thanks for all the input people. In any case it's an interesting topic.

 

[nuke]

The problem with the limonene idea is that the acidic sulfate group the DXM is ionically bonded to is covalently bonded to the polymer, so that even if you dissolved it, the DXM would still be stuck to it. If you added a strong base, that would bond to the sulfate group preferently and free the DXM ions, which could possibly be precipitated out after with a weak acid (perhaps the citrate), but I'm not entirely sure of the plausibility of that.

This ethanol idea is probably the best, acetone would work too but you'd need to ingest the acetone which is probably a bad idea.

 

[colors]

i tried hot ethanol today and it didn't work (including ethanol + milk of magnesia idea). nor did hot vegetable oil.
also as someone else mentioned, a solution saturated with citric acid had no effect, so any teks claiming that a soak in cola or lemon juice will break it down are bogus.

 

[nuke]

This is unfortunate. I'll dig around for another way to bypass this; it sure is proving difficult, though.

 

[rentmitchum]

This is interesting, maybe someone who is on a mission to find out at some point in the future will resurrect this and tell us a way.

Until then, like I said before, I'm not the actual one who was trying to use DXM at all.. this isn't a "swim" thing, I really just was asking for someone else. So it sounds like most of the uncomplicated ideas might be less plausible, and my friend doesn't feel comfortable doing agent lemon or .. a DMT extraction.. I mean, he doesn't feel comfortable doing kitchen chemistry mainly because he's afraid he'll mess it up... so the solution is sounding like it will be a bit beyond what he'd be willing to do to separate DXM from it's polystyrene prison.. so whatever anyone comes up with after this will mainly be useful to those of us who just enjoy the knowledge that something is possible.

 

[Pothedd]

so wait

wouldn't you be able to saturate the extracted dxm polistirex in citric acid for some number of hours, then just drink it?
or are you guys trying to avoid the polistirex altogether?
'cause i don't think you can unbond it very readily
but i'm sure you could simulate the acidity of the stomach to some degree and "pre-chew your food" if you will, resulting in shorter onset time???

just my thoughts
what do you say?

 

[AvogadrosTie]

I don't really know how to separate the DXM HBr from the polystyrex (sodium polystyrene sulfonate) resin, however... What it is is DXM HBr bound (relatively weakly) to a polystyrex coordination complex, such that the latter forms somewhat of a "cage" around the DXM HBr. I don't think it would require a lot of energy to break the bond, since it's a complex and not a typical ionic or covalent bond. Presumably, I guess you'd need to find a suitable solvent so that the DXM HBr dissociates from the polystyrex. You'd probably need to find some other replacement reagent to bind to the polystyrex so as to keep the DXM from reattaching. After that, it may be as simple as mechanically filtering the one from the other (such as with a micropore filter), since the polystyrex is MUCH larger (50 μm to about 70 μm) than the DXM HBr molecules.

For more specific info, do a google search for "DXM polystyrene sulfonate" and you should see a link to its patent containing the details.

 

[Mr.Dopamine]

The last post is over 8 years after the next to last, and this is seven years since the last. I hope this becomes a tradition every seven years! Maybe we'll figure out the tech sometime around when fusion power is commonplace! lol

While limonene itself it not really toxic for humans, it easily oxidizes upon contact with air oxygen, thus creating limonenoxide (sorry, the link is in german only). These are potent allergens! Therefore, I advise some care when handling the stuff.

- Murphy

While a bit ridiculous, this does fit the theme of the thread which is: theoretical chemistry failing in the real world. I suppose it's something to be concerned if you're allergic to oranges! I've never heard of anyone allergic to oranges, but how would you say in German "hey, it doesn't hurt to be careful!" Limonene, (when sold as pure product, D-limonene) is pretty harmless and is even sold as a supplement. It is an industrial-strength cleaner, labelled that way, and it can irritate skin the way an orange irritates canker sores on the mouth or tongue. Dip your hand in there and it will probably sting. There are specialty companies that sell it online, from Florida, of course. I quite like the smell, but it can be very strong. I've left the bottle open after burning food in the kitchen (and it works well to clean up burned food, too!) Now if the OP's friend...

my friend doesn't feel comfortable doing agent lemon or .. a DMT extraction.. I mean, he doesn't feel comfortable doing kitchen chemistry mainly because he's afraid he'll mess it up... so the solution is sounding like it will be a bit beyond what he'd be willing to do to separate DXM from it's polystyrene prison.. .

Is "Agent lemon tek" is just soaking in lemon juice and squeezing? That's about as simple as it gets. Boiling in water and straining (tea) or soaking in alcohol, isn't really an "extraction", it's practically a cocktail recipe! If you're not willing to do more, then don't even ask.

 

[Rectify]

HINT: You are looking for pressed pills, not liquid filled gelcaps or cough syrup. HBP with no acetaminophen or polystirex.