Drug law reform - why is Australia so far behind?

[One Thousand Words]

Nerds got to nerd I'm guessing Sweet Jones.

Speed, weed and what ever we might have had the night before. I have lost count of the number games I played on drugs. (Not well I might add )

 

[Yeetbeat]

hahaha nothing, yagecero mentioned it.

Soccer = football. AFL and Rugby are handball (though I very much prefer AFL - wouldn't mind playing it myself tbh)

Given we're still debating the issue of same-sex marriage to this day, I fear any kind of drug policy reforms are still a LONG way off

 

[One Thousand Words]

NZ will/is leading the way. With legal highs becoming more prevalent I see much safer alternatives like real cannabis and possibly mdma earning legal status sooner rather than later.

It will happen in Australia around the same time the Wallabies win back the Bledisloe Cup.

 

[spacejunk]

^ interesting though, NZ is another of the countries in which hemp products are not allowed to be sold as food products. That puts us out of step with the majority of the developed world.

How the implementation of the much-touted safety tests for "legal highs" will likely go, I'm not too sure.

But considering New Zealand's drug analogue laws are similar to Australia's....it would seem that a great deal of the potential substances are already going to be illegal; seems like a bit of clever PR BS to me.
Granted; I haven't read a whole lot into it - but why not "test" the safety of well-understood (and irrationally banned plants and other psychoactive substances first?

With progressive politics, it's a piece of cake to talk the talk...

the gayest display of meathead faggotry to ever grace the field by that name.

Given we're still debating the issue of same-sex marriage to this day, I fear any kind of drug policy reforms are still a LONG way off

Um....I do hope you see the irony in these two statements? What does homophobia/sport/same sex marriage have to do with drug law reform?

Why can't we have both (marriage and drug reform)- or at least a debate in which one doesn't deflect from the other issue entirely?

This idea that "if we can't have (x) then we'll never have (y)" makes no sense to me as a discussion of political or social change.

It does illustrate the whole "bread and circuses" concept rather well though...

 

[Yeetbeat]

^ interesting though, NZ is another of the countries in which hemp products are not allowed to be sold as food products. That puts us out of step with the majority of the developed world.

How the implementation of the much-touted safety tests for "legal highs" will likely go, I'm not too sure.

But considering New Zealand's drug analogue laws are similar to Australia's....it would seem that a great deal of the potential substances are already going to be illegal; seems like a bit of clever PR BS to me.
Granted; I haven't read a whole lot into it - but why not "test" the safety of well-understood (and irrationally banned plants and other psychoactive substances first?

With progressive politics, it's a piece of cake to talk the talk...





Um....I do hope you see the irony in these two statements? What does homophobia/sport/same sex marriage have to do with drug law reform?

Why can't we have both (marriage and drug reform)- or at least a debate in which one doesn't deflect from the other issue entirely?

This idea that "if we can't have (x) then we'll never have (y)" makes no sense to me as a discussion of political or social change.

It does illustrate the whole "bread and circuses" concept rather well though...

given you took what I said seriously, I see absolutely no point in addressing your concerns with it lol



BRB, catching dat der flying piggy outside my window.

 

[spacejunk]

You assume that I took what you said seriously?
I asked if you could see the irony.
If this conversation makes you uncomfortable, perhaps you could consider not posting in the thread?

 

[Halif]

^I'm hungry as fuck - I see that piggy and I'm throwing rocks at it.

Back up! It's mine!!


On a related note (to the topic, not the pig): I think post #11 by Yagecero is one of the most interesting I've read on the topic of deeply ingrained cultural conservatism in Australia. The only thing I would shy away from (I'm so shy and coy...hehehe) is saying "Australians are dumb as fuck".

Putting that blanket statement at the end kind of let me down a bit after a great post, just because IT NEVER HELPS to throw an insult at an entire nation. If Australians - or a certain aspect of the populace - are dumb as fuck, than a comment like that will just close the doors of communication and enrage them.

Sorry to kill the punch of that last line and be a stickler for... something... but I've travelled and lived abroad and seen (and participated in) radically different cultures, and what it taught me above all else is that "good/bad" traits are an individual thing and you'll find all types of people in every place in the world.


(back to flinging rocks at pig)

 

[spacejunk]

When you can't have a discussion about...anything without which code of football is more valid more/less (homo)sexual than others....I would seriously question the intelligence of the populous.

OTW mentioned it in regards to Australians' restraint (or lack thereof) when it comes to alcohol consumption; we have Governments of democratically elected lying swine across the nation (especially federally) and a general public that supports the more extreme ends of illegal activities carried out by our armed forces.

Let's not shy away from the real issue here - perhaps Australia is "so far behind" (culturally, socially - in almost every measurable generalisation) because - as a nation/national identity, we're really not that intelligent.
When sport means more than war, education, health - or any of the things the average Joe seems totally apathetic about, I do wonder whether Australians - for whatever reason - are indeed "dumb as fuck".
I'm not afraid to call a spade a spade....

I was hoping for a more stimulating explanation, but when a bunch of science-denying, anti-environmentalist, education/health fund cutting idiots screeching "stop the boats" win a federal election by a landslide - followed by very little public opposition, there are only so many ways to look at the situation.

"Australians lack critical reasoning skills" is the nicest way i can think of expressing it.

"Dumb as fuck" as a better ring to it. Better suited to the language of the common man.

 

[Halif]

No, I'm stick to my original sentiment. I think the fact that we're here discussing goes against the idea that Australians, all of us, are dumb as fuck. There are many of us, not just on this board, who have exactly the same frustration about the backwards nature of this country. I'd even go so far as to say that the majority of people want to see a host of changes which would this place in line with other nations.

I really do believe that it's the mainstream culture via media which is dumb as fuck, and that is a seemingly giant beast which is controlled by a disproportionately tiny number of people in power. The small minded, big powers in this country have the final say on issues, and exactly who they are would be interesting because they don't stand around waving their arms and declaring their beliefs. That's because they are actually afraid of their own beliefs, due to them being a minority perspective. It's when these people, or groups die out (and it may be that they literally have to die, by reaching the end of their lifespan, so that they can be replaced by people who are not as swayed by such old-fashioned ideas).

Just my thoughts on the matter

 

[Yeetbeat]

You assume that I took what you said seriously?
I asked if you could see the irony.
If this conversation makes you uncomfortable, perhaps you could consider not posting in the thread?

The only irony is that I referred to something as "gay", then went on to point out how our governing party has an issue with homosexuality...but this only stands as something relevant for you to quote me on if you actually believe I MEANT IT when I referred to rugby as "gay".

I know that the issue of drug reform and gay marriage are entirely different things; my point was that if our government is too backwards (or whatever word you want to use) to move past something as outdated and trivial as same sex marriage, what hope do we have that they'll ever see the light on a somewhat more complex issue like drug prohibition reforms?

Do you see in colour or black and white? Can't take everything you read literally mate, that's how these kinds of discussions derail into an exchange of butthurt when people make blanket statements like the one about Aussies being dumb as fuck.

NB - I don't mean to convey any aggression or negativity towards anyone in my comments here. Remember kids: you can't convey tone through text (well you can to some degree, but italics look pretty stupid when it's every other word haha)

 

[Yeetbeat]

Also perhaps the word "dumb" could be exchanged for "complacent". The average Australian's lifestyle is far too good compared to many other first-world countries. For the most part, we live very comfortable lives....so we don't have as much incentive to stand up and whinge about things as unfortunately a lot of the time they don't have enough of an impact on our day-to-day lives (or at least a lot of us are also ignorant enough not to realise just how much of an impact they have).

Personally, I'm only 25, employed in a permanent full time position, earning just shy of $80k/year.....the only real incentive I have to stick my hand up and push for these kinds of changes is that I don't agree with the way things are being run overall. Weed - legal or not - doesn't make much difference to MY lifestyle, so why do I care about pushing for a reform? I do because I live by logic and reason, not ignorant emotion like those in power right now (hence the same sex marriage thingy)

 

[spacejunk]

^ I agree with a lot of Halif's above post - I just find the predominance of anti-intellectual sentiment (in individual citizens as well as the media that feeds so many of the attitudes and ideologies people cling to) a huge hinderance to Australia taking any bold steps forward (as a collective culture or a nation) or taking any leadership in terms of what other countries do.
I think the rise of flag-waving patriotism is a weak cover for the national insecurity and fear that has been thrust upon us by globalism; the fact that we really have fuck-all to be proud of - and a lot (historically) to be ashamed of.

Coming back to drugs - the macho Aussie tough guy attitude still pervades, despite a huge rise in the amount of people that have consumed empathogens, psychedelics and a range of other "mind expanding" chemicals in recent decades.

Halif, I think you are much more forgiving and optimistic on this - and I'm quite the pessimistic misanthrope - and I truly admire your perspective.
I don't mean to make stupid generalisations about a whole nation of people - but it frustrates to see Australia going from leading the way in Harm Reduction programs in the 1980s and 90s - to being an embarrassment on the world stage in many regards 20-30 years on.
Are we going backwards? Or am I asking too much of my countrymen?
It is the institutionalisation of bigotry that bothers me more than anything. The celebration of mediocrity, suspicion of progression.

If any of this crap is relevant, the next question is; how do we break out of this?
How do we grow, develop, evolve?

Trozzle; you ask me if I see in colour or black and white; then go on to mention that text doesn't express complexities without adequately articulating war you mean. I think you answered your own question.
I started this topic looking for an interesting discussion, not wisecracks - so forgive me for reading your post as a defensive side-step.
I agree that Australians are far too complacent.
Back to the bread-and-circuses; a culture of mass distraction.

 

[Yeetbeat]

If any of this crap is relevant, the next question is; how do we break out of this?
How do we grow, develop, evolve?

It wouldn't be too far fetched to suggest we need to hit rock-bottom big time in order for things to change, perhaps. Something like a near-death experience for society on the whole lol

 

[poledriver]

 

[spacejunk]

It wouldn't be too far fetched to suggest we need to hit rock-bottom big time in order for things to change, perhaps. Something like a near-death experience for society on the whole lol

I think we've more than hit that point.
Human cultural evolution doesn't usually come out of dire circumstances. There are some notable exceptions, but complacent apathy isn't a good starting point.
Once the devolution begins, it's a slippery slope.
We have the declining education standards, we have the beginnings of an established police state, we have a conservatism that has been ingrained for decades. Generations.

I would argue that radical positive change is more likely to spring from inspiration than oppression in our case.
Perhaps when the print media finally chokes on it's own vitriol, we'll have a chance to reclaim the discourse and the direction this country is currently going in.

 

[Yeetbeat]

Last sentence = nail on the head

 

[spacejunk]

Or is it the final nail in the coffin?
Decentralised provision of public information has a utopian ring to it; but it could conceivably have the inverse result (if it happens at all).
Has the democratisation of information had a radicalising effect on Australia in the last ~20 years?
I don't know that it has.

 

[opi8]

In related news, How Covert Agents Infiltrate the Internet to Manipulate, Deceive, and Destroy Reputations

 

[spacejunk]

Exactly;
Technological dystopia.
We are a remarkably malleable collective consciousness.
That's both potentially a strength and a weakness...

 

[Halif]

This is turning out to be most interesting!

I think these comments are verbalising things which I've always felt but not been able (or simply not bothered) to express in detail.

There are two great points that have come out of the exchange between Trozzle and Spacejunk:

1. Australians are complacent. This is something I agree with wholeheartedly, as well as the reasons with which you backed up the idea, Trozzle. This is The Lucky Country... which has unfortunately become The Spoiled Country. We don't have political, financial or geographical instability on a level like many, many other countries, nor do we have a long and rich culture born from hundreds of generations past. If Australia were a person, it would be an awkward teenager who is self-absorbed but miserable and trying desperately to find its place in the world.

2. I'm fairly sure a catastrophic event would cause people to take check and realise what they have (or had) and perhaps get together like the British and their 'bunker mentality' (is that the expression, or did i completely mangle that?! LOL! I just want to the mention the lasting comradery forged through rather large war time events). However, I think what's needed is, as Spacejunk suggested, INSPIRATION to change and better themselves (and thereby their nation). This is a time to be driven by positives rather than fear.

Spacejunk: Having met you, even though it was brief, I know that you're passionate about these issues because you are a highly compassionate person. The fact that you give a shit, really care, makes you frustrated. It's very hard not to express disappointment and even anger at something or someone you care about. This is what makes me optimistic. You're a few years younger than me, but you have the very best intentions and are most sincere. I've met quite a number of other people even younger who have similar ideas. That's what gives me an optimistic view.

I've been asked many, many times by people from nearly every continent on the planet, what I personally think of my country.

I always give the same answer: It has real potential. I look at the younger generations, like my brother who is seven years younger, and I see a lot of stuff missing - prejudice against other races, fear of boat people or foreigners in general!, hang ups regarding people's sexuality... A lot of younger people (and of course just people of any age) can see a bigger picture and a better kind of future. They simply don't have the baggage that their parents, and especially grandparents had or still have.

Time will be needed, and it seems as if Australia is moving at a glacial pace on certain issues, but I would probably bet that far sooner than anyone expects there's going to be a landslide of change which most of us would agree is for the better. Believe it.