• N&PD Moderators: Skorpio | thegreenhand

Dopamine Receptors And Their Behavioural Affects

I think PCP showed reduced consumption BUT the rats still had a natural habitat, regular day-night cycles and adequate food to remove the flaw in earlier models in which animals would take almost any psychoactive that reduced stress.

They had to redo the study because of that design flaw. It makes sense because we recognize that people will take almost anything if they are forced to live in an awful environment.

I don't THINK animals can be persuaded to consume things like LSD but most modern neuroleptics are also 5HT2a antagonists so would block the action of that class of drug.
 
I think PCP showed reduced consumption BUT the rats still had a natural habitat, regular day-night cycles and adequate food to remove the flaw in earlier models in which animals would take almost any psychoactive that reduced stress.

They had to redo the study because of that design flaw. It makes sense because we recognize that people will take almost anything if they are forced to live in an awful environment.

I don't THINK animals can be persuaded to consume things like LSD but most modern neuroleptics are also 5HT2a antagonists so would block the action of that class of drug.


Yes, it’s quite fascinating. apparently, even dopamine depleted animals would not pursue anything, even if they like it, and could literally starve to death. however, when sugar solution is delivered directly to their mouth, they still show liking reactions and will press a lever to receive more sugar solution. however, the process is much slower unless pronounced.
I think this shows that dopamine is very special and unique in its ability to drive some of the most interesting behaviours which are animalistic at their core but completely entangled with our higher cognitive functions and reasoning.
 
Levodopa supplementation is said to improve motor learning in stroke patients (as is d-amphetamine, but that can be bad for people with high blood pressure), and even learning new words from a foreign language. So it looks like it's a performance enhancer that can temporarily make "an old dog learn new tricks faster", but someone claimed that it can also accelerate the age-related destruction of dopaminergic neurons unless taken with a MAO-B inhibitor at the same time.

Levodopa has some behaviorally "rewarding" effects too if taken by someone with Parkinson's disease that has already destroyed a lot of their dopaminergic neural pathways, and even without Parkinson's it induces conditioned place preference in animal experiments if given with a COMT inhibitor (but this doesn't mean it's necessarily any better than ephedrine in that).
 
Levodopa supplementation is said to improve motor learning in stroke patients (as is d-amphetamine, but that can be bad for people with high blood pressure), and even learning new words from a foreign language. So it looks like it's a performance enhancer that can temporarily make "an old dog learn new tricks faster", but someone claimed that it can also accelerate the age-related destruction of dopaminergic neurons unless taken with a MAO-B inhibitor at the same time.

Levodopa has some behaviorally "rewarding" effects too if taken by someone with Parkinson's disease that has already destroyed a lot of their dopaminergic neural pathways, and even without Parkinson's it induces conditioned place preference in animal experiments if given with a COMT inhibitor (but this doesn't mean it's necessarily any better than ephedrine in that).


Thanks for that information. yes, I think supplementing levodopa if you don’t have Parkinson’s disease is probably a bad idea though this has actually been done in occasional experiments to test the role of dopamine alteration in The behaviour of healthy volunteers. MAOB inhibitors like selegiline which I’m desperate to try, have produced powerful and persistent enhancement in motivation, drive and even sexual function according to some anecdotal reports. do you agree with me, That researchers generally tread much more carefully when it comes to manipulating dopamine as opposed to the enthusiasm they show for neurotransmitters like ACh, norepinephrine and serotonin. initially, I thought this might be due to the role of dopamine in addiction. however, the addiction field is actually looking into dopamine but even then it seems to be about reducing it. i’m now suspecting that fear of the unknown and in particular, ethical concerns might be somewhat involved. I know all neurotransmitters have major influence on human behaviour and they all interact with each other, but the power of dopamine on major aspects of human behaviour seems unrivalled.
 
i think both bupropion and selegeline were a bad idea for me with bipolar, partly because i wasn't taking regular anti-psychotics and a mood stabiliser.

i think dopamine increasing AD, need to be recommended with caution to schizoids and the psychotic illnesses.

or if taking medication as recommended, perhaps microdosing
 
Last edited:
i think both bupropion and selegeline were a bad idea for me with bipolar, partly because i wasn't taking regular anti-psychotics and a mood stabiliser.

i think dopamine increasing AD, need to be recommended with caution to schizoids and the psychotic illnesses.

or if taking medication as recommended, perhaps microdosing


Your concerns definitely makes sense. however, if you’ve seen my replies from earlier on, this is why I am so interested in studying dopamine receptors, their downstream effects and how this links to behaviour. for example, we know that psychosis is linked to excessive dopamine and D2 receptor stimulation in certain brain regions. however, NMDA receptor antagonists can also produce psychosis independently of dopamine as demonstrated by its resistance to typical antipsychotics like haloperidol. furthermore, mania is another condition linked to hyperdopamine dependent signalling via D2 receptors. this then raises the question, why does an excess of the same neurotransmitter, acting at the same receptors can lead to a completely different outcome. I know Mania and psychosis May sometimes co-occur, but in reality on their own, they are two completely different conditions with mostly unrelated symptoms. then there’s the fact that amphetamine, despite massively boosting dopamine in healthy humans, tends to only produce aspects of mania and not those of psychosis. on top of this, there is the fact that lithium is not a good antipsychotic, despite being a mood stabiliser and powerful antimanic agent, capable of suppressing amphetamine induced euphoria/positive activation but not the psychotomimetic effects of amphetamine in paranoid schizophrenic humans.
The logic of current medical thinking is that too much dopamine is involved in psychosis so therefore, we should just shut down dopamine receptors with antipsychotics. The problem is, we know this brings many side-effects like movement disorders and anhedonia. we’ve known for years that dopamine receptors are linked to psychosis, but it’s about time we started asking why and how they are involved. it is these how and why questions that should guide future research on antipsychotics, which Focus only on what they are supposed to do, opposing psychosis.
 
does anyone have any experience with dopamine Beta-hydroxylase inhibitors. apparently, they are quite useful for the treatment of cocaine and amphetamine addictions.
 
Just ann interesting point about dopamine which I think should be noted. dopamine is actually a neuromodulator with many of its immediate and long-term effects on behaviour being The direct result of changes to AMPA receptor surface expression, subunit composition, and modifications like phosphorylation. aside from very complex interactions between dopamine receptors and NMDA receptors, it is actually alterations to postsynaptic AMPA receptor functions in specific brain regions that results in The behavioural effects of dopamine. this is just my hypothesis, but I wonder if this is where so called AMPAkine drugs, touted as nonaddictive memory enhancers/stimulants go wrong. Ampakines generally enhance AMPA function, particularly calcium conductance across the brain. this might enhance memory, but likely amplifies many other brain systems in a manner that might not always be useful, for example provoking anxiety. furthermore, some Ampakines demonstrate possible neuroleptic or rather anti-dopaminergic like activity by suppressing methamphetamine induced hyperactivity. such an effect could be harmful in humans if it results in depressive like behaviours.
 
some fascinating information on the D1/D2 receptor heteromer. this receptor complex can be found in certain brain regions like the striatum and nucleus accumbens, more specifically in neurons that express both receptor subtypes. the D1/D2 receptor complex has unique signalling properties and behavioural effects, making them a promising pharmacological target. for example, unlike The individual receptor subtypes, or even other receptor complexes, D1/D2 Heteromers can strongly elevate neuronal calcium levels via an IP3 dependent mechanism. their behavioural affects are even stranger and include the ability to suppress brain reward/induce anhedonia, produce a conditioned avoidance/aversive response and suppress amphetamine sensitisation in animal models. blocking D1/D2 receptor heteromers could be a very promising target for depression, schizophrenia and any other mood disorder where anhedonia is a core component.
D1/D2 receptor Heteromers are thought to produce their behavioural effects by decreasing/eliminating the expression of Delta FOSB. based on this, some suggest they may exist as powerful negative regulators of reward and activating them may play a role in fighting addiction. unfortunately, their tendency to suppress reward by diminishing Delta FOSB levels, which makes them an interesting target for addiction, also means that activating them risks inducing depressive and anxiety like behaviours including dysphoria, aversion, anhedonia and other mood disturbances.
Here are some interesting articles on the topic:












 
can anyone help me understand why there’s not wider discussion of D1/D2 receptor complex’s and attempts to block them. please check out the articles in my previous post and let me know what you think, is it promising?

I’m shocked, there’s literally a dopamine receptor complex which works to promote depression, anhedonia and possibly psychosis, but could theoretically be broken up. this shouldn’t only reverse/prevent anhedonia and enhance reward directly by blocking its unique signalling pathways, but also indirectly by freeing up D1 and D2 receptors to do what we want them to do, that is enhancing cognition, motivation and reward.
 
here’s an article that supports one of my earlier points about the importance of dopamine in reward and happiness, even though it might not be directly involved in pleasure/liking. I mean, you probably already know that dopamine contributes to wanting, whilst serotonin and opioids amongst others contribute to liking. that’s nothing new, but it does raise the question of which system plays a larger role in actual overall happiness in real life. The link below agrees with my thinking that dopamine and the seeking/wanting responses it triggers Play the predominant role in sustaining happiness.

 
following on from my previous post, I definitely agree with that article especially with my own experience of temporary anhedonia last year. without constant desires, impulses and thrillseeking, life becomes dark, painful and avursive, I would even say disgusting.
 
For anyone interested in weight loss, i’m sure you’ve heard about the GLP1 agonists, a class of antidiabetic drugs now being used for obesity treatment because of their side effect of severely suppressing appetite.
In terms of weight loss, The main mechanism is thought to be activation of brain regions which directly suppress appetite along with delayed gastric emptying creating a feeling of fullness. however, there is another more subtle mechanism at play, which is the suppression of general dopamine activity in response to all pleasures.
That might explain why people reported spontaneously completely losing interest in bad habits they’ve struggled with for life, such as online shopping, excessive reading, gambling, eating chocolate and gaming.
GLP1 agonists sound like the perfect solution to make us better human beings or at least help us reach our goals, plus they’re amazing for weight loss.
Despite all that, there’s one huge problem. people don’t want to stay on them and most will discontinue them in about a year or two. I don’t blame them. as I predicted before reading about this topic, many of them said life felt bleak and worthless without the constant impulsive drive, even when that led them to bad habits.
Once the medication is stopped, appetite and reward impulsivity fully return, though for many people, it’s probably a huge relief by that point.

I think there are two key solutions to treating eating or other impulse disorders including drug addiction. The first is behavioural therapy and lifestyle changes to help the individual. Avoid risky reward driven decisions.
The second is medication which enhances or maintains reward activity as a form of substitution for the unwanted behaviour. I know it’s not always perfect, but I can guarantee that methadone or buprenorphine substitution therapy is much better tolerated, preferred and effective than the opioid antagonist naltrexone.
Countless medications, which block reward activity such as naltrexone, typical antipsychotics, certain mood stabilisers like lithium have a high discontinuation rate and terrible record in treating addiction. for the same reason, the nicotinic, antagonist, mecamylamine never took off as a treatment for tobacco dependence. when we consider what has actually managed to cut smoking rates, we clearly see the role of socially influenced behavioural changes/trends as well as the widespread introduction of nicotine replacement alternatives, both medically prescribed and otherwise. for all their floors, many people have stopped smoking directly because of an alternative delivery mechanism for the nicotine reward they crave.
No, there are still those pessimists who say that’s just replacing one addiction for another and some of them would probably favour medication which block the reward system. well, It is replacing one addiction for another, but if it’s harmless/less harmful, works well and sustainable, so be it!
I do wonder if a small number of people who very strongly oppose reward enhancement actually do so due to lack of empathy/understanding. for example, they may have naturally high drive./satisfaction, and achieve lots of success partly because of genetic traits that increase dopamine function. since they are born with this, I wonder if it could be that they struggle to empathise with those doing less well and struggling with self-control.
Although not proven, another suspicion I have is that some of these people, especially those who get needlessly offended/wound up by the concept of safer addictions May have a slight envious, or maybe even sadistic nature, which makes them irritated at the fact are able to get instant gratification from a substance or simple action without having to work hard for it.
 
I think we are tapped out of knowledge that is of benefit to others.

Schizophrenia still isn't fully understood. I think their is functional MRI data in which a tracer was used to highlight concentrations of dopamine receptors and their are a number of theories concerning the concentration and distribution of said receptors.


There are people who have spent decades studying the illness and in my experience, if you contact a researcher with a question that isn't in a published article, they will either say that it's an unknown or they will provide the information. Not all but most will do that for you.

I've found the authors of patents going back decades. People who have retired. But if they know, they share.
 
I think we are tapped out of knowledge that is of benefit to others.

Schizophrenia still isn't fully understood. I think their is functional MRI data in which a tracer was used to highlight concentrations of dopamine receptors and their are a number of theories concerning the concentration and distribution of said receptors.


There are people who have spent decades studying the illness and in my experience, if you contact a researcher with a question that isn't in a published article, they will either say that it's an unknown or they will provide the information. Not all but most will do that for you.

I've found the authors of patents going back decades. People who have retired. But if they know, they share.


Oh yes, I know how complex schizophrenia is. however, what do you think about my more recent posts, more specifically, those about the D1/D2 complex.
I’m not normally a fan of conspiracies, but do you think many researchers could work towards permanent or at least permanently sustainable enhancement of the reward system,, but are consciously or subconsciously opposed to it? I only say this because it’s a common theme amongst people who I’ve spoken to. some of my friends and family, who have no scientific knowledge whatsoever said they felt strangely uncomfortable/disturbed by the prospect of humans being able to manipulate their own reward system at will.
 
Well don't forget, anything you read has been through peer review. Reviewers are unpaid but people who have sufficient knowledge and an appropriate skill-set to properly check that an article is of the required high standards (very high if it's in Nature) but who themselves are likely not working in that exact field.

So while it's of course impossible to totally exclude collusion, it would require an impractically large number of people to actually maintain an untruth.

Researchers often have thoughts that are 'uncomfortable' but the point is, until you carry out the study you don't know what the result will be. Conclusions are based on data and so nobody could know, going in, what the results will be.

Their ARE ethical problems surrounding the study of an illness that appears to only afflict man. I've mentioned some deeply unethical studies and we are left asking can we even use any data from such work. If an illness makes someone unfit to provide informed consent their are huge areas which we cannot study.

I think that's the biggest issue. Research is constrained because we cannot use animal models (although personally I have never used animal models for ethical reasons of my own) and we simply cannot place people in a position where harm is a foreseeable risk. For myself, I've actually taken several neuroleptics just to know what their subjective effects are.

That is why I find them so repugnant. I've felt the severe side-effects. I didn't know at the time but others had done the same long (decades) before me and when I read what they had to say, I could only agree.

If I didn't mention it before, a childhood friend; someone I had known for most of my life developed late onset schizophrenia and so I watched how subtle it can be. It took over a year from his friends first talking to each other asking what others thought to this friend getting really ill. But we had no direct experience so we didn't know what we were witnessing. But my key point is that I have a vested interest in ensuring the best outcomes for my friend and by extension everyone who struggles with this illness. I have been very critical of research for decades.

I have taken researchers to task. If you flag a specific issue in a paper I promise I will look. I will do my best on this.
 
Well don't forget, anything you read has been through peer review. Reviewers are unpaid but people who have sufficient knowledge and an appropriate skill-set to properly check that an article is of the required high standards (very high if it's in Nature) but who themselves are likely not working in that exact field.

So while it's of course impossible to totally exclude collusion, it would require an impractically large number of people to actually maintain an untruth.

Researchers often have thoughts that are 'uncomfortable' but the point is, until you carry out the study you don't know what the result will be. Conclusions are based on data and so nobody could know, going in, what the results will be.

Their ARE ethical problems surrounding the study of an illness that appears to only afflict man. I've mentioned some deeply unethical studies and we are left asking can we even use any data from such work. If an illness makes someone unfit to provide informed consent their are huge areas which we cannot study.

I think that's the biggest issue. Research is constrained because we cannot use animal models (although personally I have never used animal models for ethical reasons of my own) and we simply cannot place people in a position where harm is a foreseeable risk. For myself, I've actually taken several neuroleptics just to know what their subjective effects are.

That is why I find them so repugnant. I've felt the severe side-effects. I didn't know at the time but others had done the same long (decades) before me and when I read what they had to say, I could only agree.

If I didn't mention it before, a childhood friend; someone I had known for most of my life developed late onset schizophrenia and so I watched how subtle it can be. It took over a year from his friends first talking to each other asking what others thought to this friend getting really ill. But we had no direct experience so we didn't know what we were witnessing. But my key point is that I have a vested interest in ensuring the best outcomes for my friend and by extension everyone who struggles with this illness. I have been very critical of research for decades.

I have taken researchers to task. If you flag a specific issue in a paper I promise I will look. I will do my best on this.


Thank you so much for your help. my knowledge of research is unfortunately very poor and amateur. though I don’t want to burden you with anything, I recently posted some links to articles on the D1/D2 receptor complex and it’s roll in the brain. I would appreciate it if you could check out at least one of these and let me know if you think this will feasibly be transferred to human therapy. I can repost the links if you like tomorrow.
Just for a bit of background, the D1/D2 heterodimer is created when D1 and D2 receptors join together to form a receptor complex which triggers unique downstream signalling pathways not seen with the individual receptors alone. this receptor complex seems to occur more frequently when dopamine is chronically elevated, for example, in the context of cocaine administration and possibly schizophrenia. what I find really interesting is that according to the articles I’ve read, this receptor complex strongly opposes brain reward function, promote anxiety and triggers anhedonia.. in contrast, blocking its formation apparently produces anxiolytic, reward and locomotor activity enhancement, enhanced cocaine CPP and blocking this complex with a highly specific peptide can even produce a CPP of its own. I can explain more if you like, but just worried this post will turn into an essay.
 
Any suggestions as to how I can purposely downregulate dopamine receptors in order to mitagate withdrawal symptoms induced by chronic use of haloperidol

I get bad withdrawals even from a 5 percent dose reduction, so a long taper isn't feasible
From what I understand, one of the best hypotheses for clozapine is that it downregulates dopamine receptors. So in theory, using it for say 6 months resets your brain.

What typically happens for long-term use for treatment resistant schizophrenia is just this. After a year or whatever, they switch them back to Zyprexa or whatever and it works.
 
Top