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  • P&S Moderators: Xorkoth | Madness

Does this disprove Atheism?

The other dimensions, places, and times that exist, have existed, or will ever exist. That is a fairly common idea, especially in the psychedelic movement. I don't believe the brain fabricates anything any more than a computer can fabricate its own software.

The brain is more like a broadcaster of different energies it receives. It just depends on what it can tune into. Or it's pretty absurd a mass of biological cells can create whole worlds for itself, at least I don't believe so. It's our interface for reality, just a very limited one.

What Xorkoth said about seeing the etheric imprints of ghosts is a good example. So more like a trip back in time than a present interaction.
 
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Atheism is unlikely to be proven or disproven, as is religion

It seems most likely that we do not and cannot know anything about the spiritual world

The possible existence of God is unknown and will remain unknown in my lifetime

I'm perfectly OK with that
 
rmikhail said:
The thing about atheists though is that they're guilty of the same criticism they direct toward theists, namely that you should only speak for yourself and never try to impose your views on others. Yet here you are, audacious enough to say that we don't know and cannot know anything about the spiritual world. Hypocrisy much?
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In many ways, God has already been proven to countless people.

Which is how wars start.
 
And to the rest, gods absence is more than enough proof. :)
 
Nixiam said:
In many ways, God has already been proven to countless people.

Which is how wars start.
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I never really want to jump to God's defence so please don't misinterpret my response.

In my lifetime there have been countless wars none have anything to do with God. Including all the OIL wars in the middle east.

Money causes wars these days, God has been relegated to the end of the line. They are being controlled for their resources by forces from outside their borders and their wealth is being stripped away by strangers. They fight because they are being abused and want to hurt their oppressor.

Many wars have been advertised to the masses as having God in charge but you just need to look at the American Civil War, both sides had God on their side apparently. God has very little to do with war if he has ever been involved beyond the abuse of his/her 'proclaimed' sponsorship I would doubt.

If your population has a pervasive belief in a single diety he can be used by military and other allied interest groups as a war mascot.

The solution, as always, is better education.
 
I don't think any war has ever been started because of God but it has worked like a charm to persuade the people to go to war. And at the same time been used as an argument to turn people away from God. So, all in all, a win/win.
 
You both have good points, but I'm stilling pinning blame on the big G.

And I'm not talking about Google, either.

I'm more or less in agreeance with you, Yourbaker. In reference to the American Civil War, both sides had God on their side. God was already "proven" to those people.

Blind faith.

God makes man feel entitled to everything they want. Which was certainly true in the past, like with the Roman Empire, the Revolutionary War, Hitler, Napoleon.

God was just the justification for what man wanted.
 
Nixiam said:
God makes man feel entitled to everything they want. Which was certainly true in the past, like with the Roman Empire, the Revolutionary War, Hitler, Napoleon.

God was just the justification for what man wanted.
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Totally agree. Not that there is some personified force who is directly causing people to do bad things, but that the idea of god has been used as wide-scale justification for all kinds of heinous actions, in fact the worst and most massively reaching actions ever taken in recorded history. Ethnic cleansing, aggressive imperialism, widespread hatreds, the Inquisition, and so on. Those behind such movements, I think, are rarely actually honest in their motivations, I think usually the motivations are power-driven, but they use religion to get the others on board.

Of course, there are definitely wars that are NOT justified by religion, and instead by some other ideology. For example American oil wars, all of these have had democracy vs some other system as the core. The Korea and Vietnam wars were about democracy vs communism, but were really about the balance of power and influence between the main powers on the planet
 
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Xorkoth said:
Totally agree. Not that there is some personified force who is directly causing people to do bad things, but that the idea of god has been used as wide-scale justification for all kinds of heinous actions, in fact the worst and most massively reaching actions ever taken in recorded history. Ethnic cleansing, aggressive imperialism, widespread hatreds, the Inquisition, and so on. Those behind such movements, I think, are rarely actually honest in their motivations, I think usually the motivations are power-driven, but they use religion to get the others on board.

Of course, there are definitely wars that are NOT justified by religion, and instead by some other ideology. For example American oil wars, all of these have had democracy vs some other system as the core. The Korea and Vietnam wars were about democracy vs communism, but were really about the balance of power and influence between the main powers on the planet
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Using gods name wouldn't mean God. God is natural rights that feel just. You can't justify something unjust with God that's accidentally worshiping satan.

Organized religion is not God. Like the power structures most would be considered anti God.
 
I agree, but isn't that a good reason to cast aside religion in favor of a more personal spirituality? Organized religion is unnecessary and in fact has often caused harm... it always ends up getting used as a social control mechanism.
 
Xorkoth said:
I agree, but isn't that a good reason to cast aside religion in favor of a more personal spirituality? Organized religion is unnecessary and in fact has often caused harm... it always ends up getting used as a social control mechanism.
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I feel very much in agreement with this, the connection we seek is often hampered by religion rather than enhanced. Personally I do attend and participate in an organized religion, there is a spiritual connection I feel when I am in a group that I don't feel alone.
 
I don't think it is entirely a social event for me. Being a gay drug addict in an evangelical church is less social than just staying home for the most part. I must give them props, (the regular churchites), they seem to be doing ok with my presence. Not that I'm extroverted or even all that noticeable really but 20 years ago it was a colder climate in church.

The worship service I could enjoy for hours and the sermon is about like watching Ted talks, it gives me a point of contact outside my own thought process.
 
"God is, even though the whole world deny Him. Truth stands, even if there is no public support. It is self sustained."

- Gandhii
 
So, what if God isn't?

Would that truth still stand even though people talk about God like God is?
 
Not if it's not the truth. Human beings seem to think they can actually choose. It's more like you have to conform to the reality of things as they really are.
 
Isn't choosing what you are doing though?

If God isn't really there, then human beings have to just be what we are when we die.

That is dead.

I mean, we can't choose when we are dead.

Really, the only time we can choose is when we are alive.
 
Ninae said:
Not if it's not the truth. Human beings seem to think they can actually choose. It's more like you have to conform to the reality of things as they really are.
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True. For me, the way things are is that we are floating through a godless space on an accumulated ball of spacedust. The reality you conform to is different, it is your own.

I don't think anyone really knows the truth, becuase I don't think there is a 'truth' to be known.

Vagina Lover said:
I mean, we can't choose when we are dead.

Really, the only time we can choose is when we are alive.
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I don't know about that. I mean, no one I know chose to be born. No one really chose to be alive. And we are told its a gift, despite having no choice whether we receive it or not. Not exactly the sort of gift I like.
 
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