Does running on opiates actually get you fitter?

[lswdirel]

Bit of a strange question, but bear with me. Through lockdown I got really into running while high on opiates (DHC/Oxy). I found myself getting faster and really enjoying it. After a while, I had to start restricting the use of Opiates due to tolerance and not getting the same impact. The running tailed off a bit too, because it was less fun.

I’m interested in trying again in a controlled way, but my question is whether the fitness gained in this way is somehow false? It’s just so much easier to run high. I’m faster, I enjoy it so much more, I go further at a better pace. But, of course, it’s hard to sustain this level of performance when sober again. So much that I find myself questioning whether I’m just kidding myself that I’m getting fitter.

Common sense tells me that it probably does raise fitness levels, but I wondered if anyone else had experience of doing this. Care to share?

Of course, I know it’s pretty stupid to do this for a number of reasons. But it’s also a really fun way to get fit (if indeed it does do that!)

Thanks very much!

D

PS I read the other quite current thread on cardio. Definitely some interesting points in there, and I can see I’m not alone. But thoughts around how genuine the effects are when doing this would be great!

 

[Endopharm]

This simple answer would be yes, but its obviously not optimal.

Not 100% sure what physiological aspects would entail entirely, but you would def. Train harder/longer and eat less.

Outside of that, great question! I want to look into it just for the science

 

[lswdirel]

Thanks! My gut feel says the same.

The other element, which I suspect counterbalances the impact of training longer/harder etc. is the damaging nature of opiates on Testosterone. That can’t help - but by how much?

I agree it’s an interesting topic. Not just physiologically, but also psychologically. The growing dependence on the drug, as it becomes inexorably linked to running in my mind, is a real challenge. I have to make sure I also run without anything, or risk ruining everything long-term. But it’s really unappealing proposition- compared to running freely in an opiate haze!

 

[Hexenstahl]

the damaging nature of opiates on Testosterone

I feel like people underestimate how incredibly important a healthy level of testo is, even for women. Science has become so simplistic with their whole "uhm uh, yeah it's dat sex hormone 'n shiet". It regulates so many things besides the libido, especially psychologically. Your level of motivation, affect regulation, etc. all depend on normal testosterone concentrations. If it's too low, you'll suffer from symptoms that can mimic depression, like avolition, trouble concentrating, mood swings, anxiety, etc.
This is why so many who use opioids long-term, become passive, apathetic individuals who lack any drive to do anything and become irritable so easily. I feel much better since I started to control my habit (I occasionally slip, but hey, at least I don't use daily anymore).

 

[Snafu in the Void]

Personally I would not want to exercise on typical opioids, they're going to reduce performance/endurance and increase injury risk as people above have said.

However, I find kratom absolutely amazing for running. Unlike typical opioids it is an adrenal agonist, stimulating and actually significantly improves my endurance and performance this way. It carries the same risk of injury, though, by masking pain. I notice an easy 20-30% gain in my time and endurance running a 5k or 10k.

I'm actually very surprised kratom is not currently banned as a PED in international sports.

 

[Pissed_and_messed]

I read that opiates decrease utilization of carbohydrates in gut. They are fuel.
If you wanna substitute opiates, I guess low-dose LSD is generally healthier option.

 

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

Bit of a strange question, but bear with me. Through lockdown I got really into running while high on opiates (DHC/Oxy). I found myself getting faster and really enjoying it. After a while, I had to start restricting the use of Opiates due to tolerance and not getting the same impact. The running tailed off a bit too, because it was less fun.

I’m interested in trying again in a controlled way, but my question is whether the fitness gained in this way is somehow false? It’s just so much easier to run high. I’m faster, I enjoy it so much more, I go further at a better pace. But, of course, it’s hard to sustain this level of performance when sober again. So much that I find myself questioning whether I’m just kidding myself that I’m getting fitter.

Common sense tells me that it probably does raise fitness levels, but I wondered if anyone else had experience of doing this. Care to share?

Of course, I know it’s pretty stupid to do this for a number of reasons. But it’s also a really fun way to get fit (if indeed it does do that!)

Thanks very much!

D

PS I read the other quite current thread on cardio. Definitely some interesting points in there, and I can see I’m not alone. But thoughts around how genuine the effects are when doing this would be great!

Yes, running is always going to get you fitter.

 

[Endopharm]

This doesnt look great...

Opioids and Their Endocrine Effects: A Systematic Review and Meta-analysis

AbstractContext. The increased use of opioids has resulted in an unprecedented opioid epidemic. Chronic opioid use causes hypogonadism, but its frequency, as we

academic.oup.com

 

[lswdirel]

Fascinating stuff, thank you.

So there are clear downsides. But how much are they counterbalanced by the running faster, longer, more often? (Realise this is a bit of a rhetorical question, since those variables will differ for everyone.)

Someone in another thread said they use something for long runs only. This makes some sense. Save it for the long hard slog on a Sunday.

As for the injury comment. I suspect that’s true. I’ve not actually injured myself, but I have overtrained doing this and had such bad DOMS I had trouble moving around for days after!

Thanks for the input. If anyone would like to add anything, please do!

D

 

[Serotonin101]

I would reasonably assume that the opioids are impacting perceived level of exertion. The mind is always the first to throw in the towel in terms of ceasing exercise/physical activity. And by a large margin. The body can go much further than we typically can expect. As was mentioned, this does open the door to pushing your body and potentially incurring injuries especially if done too often.

 

[lswdirel]

Personally I would not want to exercise on typical opioids, they're going to reduce performance/endurance and increase injury risk as people above have said.

However, I find kratom absolutely amazing for running. Unlike typical opioids it is an adrenal agonist, stimulating and actually significantly improves my endurance and performance this way. It carries the same risk of injury, though, by masking pain. I notice an easy 20-30% gain in my time and endurance running a 5k or 10k.

I'm actually very surprised kratom is not currently banned as a PED in international sports.

I have some Kratom, but haven’t used it for this. What sort of dose do you use? I have to say, choking down the capsules is a bit of a slog.

 

[Pissed_and_messed]

I would reasonably assume that the opioids are impacting perceived level of exertion. The mind is always the first to throw in the towel in terms of ceasing exercise/physical activity. And by a large margin. The body can go much further than we typically can expect. As was mentioned, this does open the door to pushing your body and potentially incurring injuries especially if done too often.

absolutely

 

[Snafu in the Void]

I have some Kratom, but haven’t used it for this. What sort of dose do you use? I have to say, choking down the capsules is a bit of a slog.

5-8g and I feel like I can run forever.

I'd toss n wash 8g within 30-45 sec. It would take me several minutes to swallow 16 pills. Those pills are also shit quality. I'm assuming you're from the UK?

 

[lswdirel]

5-8g and I feel like I can run forever.

I'd toss n wash 8g within 30-45 sec. It would take me several minutes to swallow 16 pills. Those pills are also shit quality. I'm assuming you're from the UK?

I am. I think the capsules I get are ok quality, from an EU vendor. I’ve never quite got to grips with the toss n wash.

I will try a run at the weekend or next week on Kratom, and see how it goes. Slightly worried about nausea, but in the name of science!

 

[RDP89]

I am. I think the capsules I get are ok quality, from an EU vendor. I’ve never quite got to grips with the toss n wash.

I will try a run at the weekend or next week on Kratom, and see how it goes. Slightly worried about nausea, but in the name of science!

The only time I ever ran on kratom I experienced moderate nausea which was distracting and fucked up the run. I also didn’t notice any improvement in speed or endurance.

 

[RDP89]

Of course you will still get fit running on opioids. You’re still using all of the same muscles, getting heart rate up for extended periods of time and therefore you will still get the adaptations that come with distance running training.

You can’t physically run faster or more miles per week, though you may feel like you can. And as others have pointed out, that can increase risk of injury as “listening” to your body is uber important in distance training. I personally believe that even if not competing, using opioids everywhere time one runs to make it easier to run faster/longer goes against everything that distance running is all about. But to each his own.

 

[Snafu in the Void]

The only time I ever ran on kratom I experienced moderate nausea which was distracting and fucked up the run. I also didn’t notice any improvement in speed or endurance.

You're also a lot more elite than me. I'm happy to run a 28min 5k and drink insane amounts of alcohol. I would literally die attempting a marathon. My body gives out after 10k. I'm in awe of you.

 

[RDP89]

You're also a lot more elite than me. I'm happy to run a 28min 5k and drink insane amounts of alcohol

Lol, you’re crazy. But yeah, fitness level will definitely play a factor in how much of a boost someone will get from a substance. It’s still kind of crazy that studies have shown caffeine for example to be performance enhancing resulting in faster times.

But as far as anyone has shown there is no major physiological mechanism that causes this. So it’s believed to be down to simply the fact that it lowers perceived level of exertion. So simply a stimulating feeling from a drug can allow you to run faster. Which Inhave experienced myself. But technically you physically could run that fast without it. But you probably won’t lol.

 

[Mr. Krinkle]

 

[Pissed_and_messed]

Of course you will still get fit running on opioids. You’re still using all of the same muscles, getting heart rate up for extended periods of time and therefore you will still get the adaptations that come with distance running training.

You can’t physically run faster or more miles per week, though you may feel like you can. And as others have pointed out, that can increase risk of injury as “listening” to your body is uber important in distance training. I personally believe that even if not competing, using opioids everywhere time one runs to make it easier to run faster/longer goes against everything that distance running is all about. But to each his own.

yea I think in ultra-anything drugs commonly won't just give benefit because they either prevent you from utilizing and generating energy or use it too early.
That being said I sometimes drink beer or two if ride is going unsatisfyingly. Or just for the sake of it. But it is not precisely performance thing.
Although I've heard beer is recovery drink, even if not for alcohol.