Does phenobarbital interact with MDMA? Or, recommend a different anticonvulsant?

[Breña]

My husband has tried MDMA a few times, but he gets a negative effect he calls "waves": basically, his body locks up a bit and he feels a spike of "something", one after the other until it wears off more. Sometimes he moves involuntarily. He does not black out or experience any memory issues. He has no history of seizures and isn't on any prescribed medications. We wait a minimum of 3 months between rolls.

Based on how he's described it, I think it's possible he's having a type of mild seizure? We happen to have phenobarbital always on-hand (my dog is prone to seizures), so my thought is that if he were to take that next time we do MDMA, it could help prevent the negative effect he experiences. But I don't know how those drugs interact.

Does anyone here have experience or knowledge about these drug interactions? Or any other suggestions for those negative effects my husband gets? I'm thinking definitely magnesium and potassium for him next time, but otherwise I'm stumped.

 

[negrogesic]

There isn't a particularly notable interaction, at least not a dangerous one. But it will blunt the effects of MDMA. The anticonvulsant dose of phenobarbital is also a psychoactive one.

But he might want to see a neurologist for some general testing.

 

[Jabberwocky]

My husband has tried MDMA a few times, but he gets a negative effect he calls "waves": basically, his body locks up a bit and he feels a spike of "something", one after the other until it wears off more. Sometimes he moves involuntarily. He does not black out or experience any memory issues. He has no history of seizures and isn't on any prescribed medications. We wait a minimum of 3 months between rolls.

Based on how he's described it, I think it's possible he's having a type of mild seizure? We happen to have phenobarbital always on-hand (my dog is prone to seizures), so my thought is that if he were to take that next time we do MDMA, it could help prevent the negative effect he experiences. But I don't know how those drugs interact.

Does anyone here have experience or knowledge about these drug interactions? Or any other suggestions for those negative effects my husband gets? I'm thinking definitely magnesium and potassium for him next time, but otherwise I'm stumped.

All stimulants lower the seizure threshold. All of them.

If your husband is experiencing anything that seems like seizure activity when taking MDMA, he needs to stop taking MDMA.

Brain Zapps on the other hand are completely normal. And yes, that's what they're actually called. People also get them when they discontinue SSRIs.

 

[Breña]

All stimulants lower the seizure threshold. All of them.

If your husband is experiencing anything that seems like seizure activity when taking MDMA, he needs to stop taking MDMA.

Brain Zapps on the other hand are completely normal. And yes, that's what they're actually called. People also get them when they discontinue SSRIs.

I wouldn't have thought it was a seizure from watching him, but we aren't too experienced yet and no one in our group gets/had ever gotten that effect but him. Would you mind explaining what brain zaps are for me? I searched the forum, but it's a term I see used often without really being defined.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I wouldn't have thought it was a seizure from watching him, but we aren't too experienced yet and no one in our group gets/had ever gotten that effect but him. Would you mind explaining what brain zaps are for me? I searched the forum, but it's a term I see used often without really being defined.

It's kind of hard to explain them without experiencing them. But brain zapps feel like your brain is getting zapped with a little jolt of electricity. You feel it in parts are all of your body when it happens.

It normally only happens when you've taken a lot of MDMA or have taken it over a few days.

It is a major side effect of SSRI discontinuation syndrome, the technical name for antidepressant withdrawal.

I think the consensus is that it's a side effect of your brain's serotonin.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I wouldn't have thought it was a seizure from watching him, but we aren't too experienced yet and no one in our group gets/had ever gotten that effect but him. Would you mind explaining what brain zaps are for me? I searched the forum, but it's a term I see used often without really being defined.

It could also be that he's just experiencing such an overload to his sensorium, that his brain just kind of glitches, for lack of a better term.

Kind of like you're not moving and you're not thinking about anything at all because the stimulation whether it's pleasure or overwhelming euphoria or whatever is just too much to process.

Completely different than brain zapps, and could be going on with your husband.

I have actually experienced this from high doses. It's kind of like the TV freezes. At least that's what it looks like and then either it'll be a really bad jump cut and everything will start again or the frame will just roll like a TV with a bad reception.

It's like your brain literally has too much information coming in from your skin and your ears and your nose and your eyes and your taste, all the sensations are completely overwhelmed and overwhelming and your brain just says f*** it for a little while.

 

[Breña]

It could also be that he's just experiencing such an overload to his sensorium, that his brain just kind of glitches, for lack of a better term.

Kind of like you're not moving and you're not thinking about anything at all because the stimulation whether it's pleasure or overwhelming euphoria or whatever is just too much to process.

Completely different than brain zapps, and could be going on with your husband.

I have actually experienced this from high doses. It's kind of like the TV freezes. At least that's what it looks like and then either it'll be a really bad jump cut and everything will start again or the frame will just roll like a TV with a bad reception.

It's like your brain literally has too much information coming in from your skin and your ears and your nose and your eyes and your taste, all the sensations are completely overwhelmed and overwhelming and your brain just says f*** it for a little while.

Thank you! I'm going to run your descriptions by him and see what he thinks. Maybe he just needs a lower dose!

 

[Fertile]

Thank you! I'm going to run your descriptions by him and see what he thinks. Maybe he just needs a lower dose!

Maybe he should just NOT take MDMA.

Myoclonus is a movement disorder, which presents itself with sudden, brief, shock-like jerks. Most myoclonic jerks are due to a brief burst of muscular activity, resulting in positive myoclonus [Shibasaki and Hallett, 2005].

But presentation can vary quite a lot. It could also be another form of movement disorder. Just because their wasn't a negative outcome is no guide to the next time having a similarly positive outcome. Essentially self-testing after side-effects should be on quite a few tombstones.

 

[Delmonte421]

Maybe he should just NOT take MDMA.

Myoclonus is a movement disorder, which presents itself with sudden, brief, shock-like jerks. Most myoclonic jerks are due to a brief burst of muscular activity, resulting in positive myoclonus [Shibasaki and Hallett, 2005].

But presentation can vary quite a lot. It could also be another form of movement disorder. Just because their wasn't a negative outcome is no guide to the next time having a similarly positive outcome. Essentially self-testing after side-effects should be on quite a few tombstones.

No one should risk there health for MDMA, its the same thing when I hear people ask if its ok to take MDMA with an SSRI.....
Understand the drugs your taking ad the risks that are incubated, and if your a polyaddict... you better learn a lot about drug interactions or you'll end up dead quicker the Kanye wests careers that anti-Semitic prick

 

[Fertile]

It is crazy. We just don't KNOW what's in the pills and we don't know how the unknown will react with an SSRI.

I will say it again - RC vendors with NO education in medicinal chemistry (and not much imagination) are just throwing stuff onto the market untested. So we WILL end up with a thalidomide, terfenadine, rofecoxib or worse. Not so many one can INSTANTLY point to a cause, but still one hell of a lot of deaths and disfigurements.

Has ANYONE ever seen an RC removed from market because of safety? But when you consider how many have been made, their should have been several. I admit a few were luckily just not popular but killed some, but while 4-MMC is based on known data, a lot of this stuff is not.

 

[plumbus-nine]

Has ANYONE ever seen an RC removed from market because of safety?

Yes, I believe they voluntarily withdrew 4,4'-dimethylaminorex from the market after some deaths occurred. Which is quite a shame because it was a beautiful substance but I acknowledge also a dangerous one.

 

[Fertile]

Yes, I believe they voluntarily withdrew 4,4'-dimethylaminorex from the market after some deaths occurred. Which is quite a shame because it was a beautiful substance but I acknowledge also a dangerous one.

Knowing the people who made it - it was withdrawn because the synthesis was too costly. But it does have MAOI characteristics.
But if you believe it';s because they casualties casualties, no. Most people seem able to detach from guilt for deaths. I count them in that majority.

Face it - we could have made much more with a simple benzo but went with pyrazolam - for safety. If you don't KNOW, go for the safest. Or is that just dumb.?

 

[Delmonte421]

BTW I do not say I am good because I chose pyrazolam - merely that I do consider the end user. When U-47000 powder killed someone. I quit. I had explicitly said 'never let people get the powder'.

So whatever I do - it's NOT to be the good guy - merely not the WORST guy. I might add that the guy who told us about it told 2 off us about the death - so he's clearly guilty of manslaughter.... but then DID I say it clearly enough? DID I state the risks clearly enough?

Anyway - I quit. I cannot be responsible for others doing dumb things. I've learnt THAT lesson - users are idiots.

walking science experiments lol I don't know why ppl do it, Dr.Shulgun included sorry its reckless
I'm a FDA Pharma gu, I believe in all the clinical trails etc

 

[Fertile]

Yeah - in 1960 it took 3 years to get a candidate to market. Today it's 13. A lot of that is actual legal stuff but even putting candidates through at full speed sill took us 2 years. And we never forgot stage 4 - pharmacovigilance.

How people deal with making fentanyl in the forms available - I do not know. I mean, it's rubbish anyway. OK so U-47700 was from a patent, but my guy at Upjohn would still be clear on what and what had not been tested. Even then, I quit when it wasn't put into pills.