Tryptamines Does DMT differ greatly from ketamine/LSD?

[dmt59432]

yeah on acid (lsd) i was seeing blue flashes of lightning outside and on dmt i saw elves because i heard about them from that TERRANCE author book i read. In other words, acid is similiar but dmt is stronger. think of it like this, it enhances your imagination to the point where it becomes so real that it can be scary or appealing (depending on the personality)similiar to schizophrenia symptoms but to a greater extent and a shorter duration of time

 

[nepalnt21]

can't live a full life without trying it etc.

wow, did joe rogan say this?

what a completely stupid thing to say.

that's like saying you can't live a full life without having your ass eaten with a reacharound.

i'm sure if i hadn't done dmt, i would be sitting here like "dang, i wish i had a chance to try it", same as right now how i wish i'd have been able to try quaaludes, dom, or 2c-e.

it's wild, out there stuff for sure, but i don't see it as anything more than a 5-15 minute distilled/ concentrated mushroom trip.

one time on ketamine, i had a hole with really strong vivid patterned CEVs kinda like dmt, but the experience other than that is vastly different.

 

[JackARoe]

wow, did joe rogan say this?

what a completely stupid thing to say.

that's like saying you can't live a full life without having your ass eaten with a reacharound.

i'm sure if i hadn't done dmt, i would be sitting here like "dang, i wish i had a chance to try it", same as right now how i wish i'd have been able to try quaaludes, dom, or 2c-e.

You know you totally helped me with that logical statement. A few times I had reiterated the Terrance McKenna statement that going to the grave without having tried a psychedelic is like going to the grave without having had sex. An up until your post I sort of believed that. But now I realize anything like that can be said. I mean I am going to go to the grave without visiting a lof of countries seeing sites, experiencing scuba diving or sky diving, etc... I see the point. We can say that with anything. And let's face it most of us won't experience a lot of things. (I have done a lot of quaaludes though lol, not DOM or 2C-E yet although I have one dose of that for 16 years and will have it before I die)

I like when my mind is changed. Excellent points. I also addressed going to the grave in my earlier post without trying things and now I am more peaceful about it.

 

[Mjäll]

You know you totally helped me with that logical statement. A few times I had reiterated the Terrance McKenna statement that going to the grave without having tried a psychedelic is like going to the grave without having had sex. An up until your post I sort of believed that. But now I realize anything like that can be said. I mean I am going to go to the grave without visiting a lof of countries seeing sites, experiencing scuba diving or sky diving, etc... I see the point. We can say that with anything. And let's face it most of us won't experience a lot of things. (I have done a lot of quaaludes though lol, not DOM or 2C-E yet although I have one dose of that for 16 years and will have it before I die)

I like when my mind is changed. Excellent points. I also addressed going to the grave in my earlier post without trying things and now I am more peaceful about it.

Maybe everyone doesn't need to fuck either. Some people never get laid or don't even want to.

 

[JackARoe]

Mayne everyone doesn't need to fuck either. Some people never get laid or don't even want to.

I agree. I had picked up my FIL at his nursing home and there were some younger guys that were physically disabled. They were on the patio smoking. That is when I realized most people are not having a lot of sex. Poor guys. A lot of people just can't and don't. Even healthy people. Most of the time most of everone too. (no thumbs up for this post lol)

But nature gave us an imagination and to me that is incredble. So in a way people get laid in their mind and Nature made it work. You all know what I am talking about. Strange. Sex can be very uniting or it can be as trivial as having to blow your nose.

 

[Opi_Kid_Rock]

Psilosybin heroic dose I took allowed me to see processed food/drinks for what it is- poison to the body and mind, stayed in bed due to moving room; intensity level 6 out of 10. LSD was a very pleasant and long positive emotional experience/ride intensity level 5 out of 10. NN DMT intensity level 10 out of 10 as I have not tried 4-meo DMT and probably won't have the chance in this life. DMT is the one where Ego is completely destroyed, absolutely no concept of "I" or personality is present during the trip. One cannot stop the trip, one loses all sense of time as a concept. Existing during the trip within another dimension of reality but since humans have never experienced anything similar to it, we don't know what to call that dimension that we experience...is it the spirit realm? as in the Bardos state? Words are too limiting. Pixelated reality being experienced while suspended in space and time. What lesson did I learn from two breakthroughs? I'm not exactly sure. What I learned, I believe to be ineffable. I'm guessing my understanding of reality has changed but not sure how. I do believe in the value of human lives and so I'm guessing I am more compassionate now when compared to before. I'm not sure exactly.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I hadn’t seen this thread before and although the OP is now quite dated, there is something that does not sit right about the way he casually dismisses psilocybin, ketamine, and shrooms as being barely experiences at all.

While everybody is quite different in how they react it’s hard to imagine an average recreational dose of a major dissociative or hallucinogens not seriously impacting on an average person’s consciousness at a level beyond what can be controlled.

It might not be fun, pleasant, spiritual, or meaningful but a normal person would nonetheless know that they are seriously fucked up from the dose.

By ‘average recreational dose’ I mean the dose required to hole for a dissociative or realise the full range of sensory, perceptual, cognitive, and emotional distortions from a psychedelic. Which differs based on body mass, prior drug experience, tolerance, and individual neurochemistry.

Almost by definition if you hit the k-hole you are paralysed and subject to major visions or hallucinations whether your eyes are open or closed.

It you are actually tripping on acid or shrooms your perceptions are, for a period, beyond your conscious control and you don’t have enough grip on your ‘self’ to be able to control your psychological, affective, cognitive and many behavioural responses to stimuli.

You could describe it as horrible or unenjoyable but it could not be considered ‘bog standard’ or ‘nothing special’ on a first experience and most experienced users I know still respect the potential power in these drugs to majorly fuck one up for a while.

Although that obviously declines significantly with constant use in the case of ketamine and with rapid frequent use in psychedelics with cross-tolerance.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

I think IV mxe holes were far more impressive than dmt. Felt more Iike I was in a real place than dmt felt more like watching a screen of hallucinations which is what dmt was more like.

With ketamine and mxe holes there is very little fear and the euphoria is always on the positive side. Very hedonistic addictive drugs. They can turn you into a drug addict while dmt can't

Dmt and classical psychs can be scary. K IS def. More hedinistic than dmt.

Dissocistives are very different in the thoughts and nature if hallucination too. Just a differenr world from dmt.

I think LSD can be made more sense of and can be integrated better than dmt. LSD is more "designed" for a human mind to enjoy and make sense of than something as wild fast as dmt.

 

[deficiT]

Yeah, they all have very different qualities, but imo they all have great healing potential.

Ketamine has a bit of a lasting antidepressant effect, similar to other dissociatives that I think is very underrated. I mean that's why they're using it for depression these days.

DMT can rly show you the depths of the universe and your mind. It is very confrontational like others have said, and it can be difficult pretty much every time. It can be terrifying but wonder. I recently got a gram, I did a bunch for a little while, but haven't touched it since. Imo, it's not something to over use, it should be a special experience you reserve for certain situations.

LSD I have personally found less mind expanding than either ket or dmt, to me it is mostly just fun, but I have also had really difficult experiences with it where I got kinda delusional and paranoid. Personally it is my least favorite psych and least favorite class. It can be fun sometimes, and it can show you some cool things, but imo tryptamines and phenethylamines are more useful, especially when combined.

 

[vegan]

The similarities that people may (correctly) note are irrelevant because qualitatively, they're absolutely different.

But different people have different experiences on different drugs.
What is a life-changing experience for one may just be a weird trip for someone else.

can't live a full life without trying it etc.

wow, did joe rogan say this?

If DMT doesn't work for you, then what he said loses its meaning.
It's better understood as "If you haven't lived the experience I had, you're missing something".

I agree with that. But for others, such a valuable experience may not be with DMT
For me, it applies to 5-MeO-DMT/ayahuasca/mushrooms rather than smoked DMT.

I feel about people who haven't had the type of 5-MeO-DMT/ayahuasca experiences I've had as if they were spending their lives in a locked room, unaware of the universe outside.

 

[JohnBoy2000]

"Ego death".

That seems to be an affect of these psychedelics.

To those who require ego-death, i.e. maybe less open minded, "stuck in the box" personality types or a mindset specific to a subculture that can't see the "big picture" (universe mechanics etc) - perhaps benefit could be had.

But given my experience with these drugs, they do NOTHING for me personally.

I think the reason being, I'm the opposite of "stuck in the box".

I sail through the universe at all times regardless.

Point being, to cognitive practical thinkers who aren't confined in their thought process to a locale or "clique" etc., and can operate on a grander scale, thinking "outside of that" is something that doesn't seem to apply.

.........

That's my rationale at present, though I'm open to correction.

 

[Jabberwocky]

"Ego death".

That seems to be an affect of these psychedelics.

To those who require ego-death, i.e. maybe less open minded, "stuck in the box" personality types or a mindset specific to a subculture that can't see the "big picture" (universe mechanics etc) - perhaps benefit could be had.

But given my experience with these drugs, they do NOTHING for me personally.

I think the reason being, I'm the opposite of "stuck in the box".

I sail through the universe at all times regardless.

Point being, to cognitive practical thinkers who aren't confined in their thought process to a locale or "clique" etc., and can operate on a grander scale, thinking "outside of that" is something that doesn't seem to apply.

.........

That's my rationale at present, though I'm open to correction.

I suspect you might have under-dosed on some of them if you are able to claim they did literally NOTHING. I mean I’ve got a bucketload of drug experience and a pretty broad mind too but both ketamine and LSD in large enough doses are still capable of taking me to extraordinary places.

I would also suspect the opposite than what you hypothesise - for someone to be immune to these drugs they would probably need an exceptionally rigid mind and very strong control over it. An obsessive personality type for example might be less affected by them.

But that’s just an hypothesis.

 

[JohnBoy2000]

I suspect you might have under-dosed on some of them if you are able to claim they did literally NOTHING. I mean I’ve got a bucketload of drug experience and a pretty broad mind too but both ketamine and LSD in large enough doses are still capable of taking me to extraordinary places.

I would also suspect the opposite than what you hypothesise - for someone to be immune to these drugs they would probably need an exceptionally rigid mind and very strong control over it. An obsessive personality type for example might be less affected by them.

But that’s just an hypothesis.

Interesting observation.

Years ago I dosed a hefty enough amount of hashish, melted in oil and ate.

I had pretty decent psychosis, visuals (frightened the hell out of me).

.........

By way of my current cognitive state, I like to think I have exceptionally good control over my emotional state (aka neural firing and/or nervous system, "mind").

For that reason I suspect long ago I didn't have the same control and experienced psychosis.

And on occasions more recently, derealization etc yes, dream-state feelings, but visuals/voices/other world etc?

NA.

Dose of ketamine was 60 mg IM of what I understand was high purity.

Dose of LSD was 100 mcg, and after lack of effect combined with 100 mg MDMA.

 

[Jabberwocky]

In theory, those doses would just put a drug naive new user into a state in which they got most of the expected effects of both drugs.

But both are actually borderline. If the ketamine was racemic or low quality that dose might not generate a k-hole even in a first time user.

I required over 100 mg of IM ketamine my first time in order to hole. The first hit of around 60-70 mg (i forget exactly) didn’t do much so I to a second dose for a total dosage of 130 mg and ended up in a very deep hole and totally fucked up. I did not enjoy it much.

However, it was actually my second go a week latet with a slightly lower total dose (about 100 mg IM I think) in which I experienced the full effects of ketamine.

As for LSD. Blotters are notoriously under-dosed compared to their advertised strength so I would not be certain you actually had 100 ug. It might have been 50 ug which would have been disappointing for sure:

Based on scientifically supervised experiments it seems 100 ug of pharma grade LSD is an ideal therapeutic dose for most people and one in which most psychadelic effects are evident i.e in which the DMN Default Mode Network of the brain is clearly disrupted.

However ego-death/total connection to the universe kind of experiences tend not to come into play until 300 ug +

If you really had no change in perception I expect you got a weak batch. That’s why I always buy at least 10 blotters when trying a new batch. I assume it might be under-dosed and a single blotter may not be enough to achieve that theoretical 100 ug threshold. Although I have to say it’s quite a while since I received any blotters that seemed significantly less than what they were advertised at.

Storage and handling can also greatly weaken a blotter - so getting one off your mate who’s had it in plastic in his wallet for 3 months will be a different experience to getting it straight from a DNM vendor even if both were from the same chemist and batch originally.