does baking soda get rid of kidney stones?

[foodcrisis]

so a few years back i was taking weigh protein when i wasn't excersizing. i was told i had muscle damage in my back and there wasn't much i could do for excersize, so i was taking the normal amount of weigh protein directed on the container. so this lead to me thinking which i have before "science doesn't exist, maybe i can take this while sleeping and go into a hypnotic state where my muscles are being healed by the protein." this was a pretty bad idea because i woke up with burning piss and had burning piss for months. i went to the doctors, and they didn't know. so i found some where on the net that baking soda helps with upset stomachs. so i started taking baking soda before bed, no more weigh protein. .. after a while i noticed like black stuff and little sticks and small stones coming out in my urine. i heard it rumoured that baking soda helps clean your kidneys, so i started to use more and excersise a lot... a lot of stuff came out in my urine. i actually started to wonder if the baking soda was causing my kidney stones. it may've been causing red eye. i wasn't dehydrated from drinking so much water to remove the stones, but i eventually stopped using baking soda. it made me think i was removing some stuff from my kidneys because there was all different consistencys and colors to what was coming out in my urine, but i got the feeling like the baking soda may've been clogging my kidneys and pushing stuff out while clogging them... it was so weird though some of the stuff that came out looked like tiny green/black sticks.

does anybody have any experience with this or know if i was harming myself or better yet if the baking soda was working? i asked the doctor and they just said not to take that.. but i heard to squeeze a lemon in a cup of water and put in a tablespoon or so of baking soda. it fizzes up like crazy and tastes good. i was eating about 5 lemon drinks a day at some points... i don't know how healthy this was cause my red eye kind of went away after stopping drinking these. it felt like i had a stone clogging up my kidneys with urine, but i think it eventually stuck to the side of my kidneys and now i don't have urination problems.

 

[G_Chem]

Acids like vinegar are supposed to get rid of kidney stones, so I’d wager baking soda if anything would cause them being a base.

-GC

 

[Foreigner]

Nope. Any acid-base chemistry you take orally will be neutralized to the narrow range the bloodstream requires for survival before it ever reaches the kidneys. What baking soda orally can do is neutralize oxalic acid that you've eaten so that it becomes a salt and is passed through the GI rather than entering the bloodstream and forming crystals in the kidneys.

There are herbs you can take to break down kidney stones over time, like gravelroot. If you don't have access to a good herb apothecary or an herbalist, then you won't know what you're doing. Yes the herbs work. They just take time.

How to prevent kidney stones depends on what your stones are made of. Usually they are calcium oxalate. Bile is a source of oxalate and so is the diet. You can lookup "high oxalate foods" and avoid those. To really prevent stones, you need to introduce more citrate into your diet. Most kidney stone formers do not get enough citrate, like from fruit. A glass of pure orange juice every day will give you enough citrate to prevent most new stone formation. Citrate binds calcium and it also binds oxalate... both ways prevent stones.

Citrate won't get rid of stones you currently have but it'll prevent new ones.

 

[SpiralusSancti]

Lithium salts do rid of them !
But don't do it unless no other option at your planet and don't need it for other stuff... To fix broken brainz or for 7up or LiCl for low sodium roast, for LiAlhdyr or whatever...
good luck

 

[foodcrisis]

yeah, i haven't been having any problems with kidney stones recently, i was in the hospital and they scanned my chest and stomach and said there were none, even though i specifically felt something blocking my urine stream and was passing a bunch of stuff before. like i said it seems like this last stone i couldn't remove stuck to another part of my kidney where it wasn't disrupting the urine... i try just to eat pretty healthy now not to get any more stones, seems like there is a lot of room in the kidneys and a little stone won't harm me.

i can't understand most of foreigners post, but i was using chancas piedras for some of the time passing stones. it seemed to help. my kidneys were probably so clogged with shit though from my child hood and for like a year in my adult life thinking that i was dying where i just ate unbelievably shitty food. like two pints of ice cream a day, with burgers and what not. supposedly dairy doesn't form stones, but with that much, you never know.

yeah, so it sounds like from what i can understand from these posts that baking soda isn't any type of miracle cure or that it really doesn't help at all. i definitely won't start doing this again, even though it seems like those fizzy lemon and baking soda drinks must be healthy.

thanks for the replies, btw

 

[neversickanymore]

Acids like vinegar are supposed to get rid of kidney stones, so I’d wager baking soda if anything would cause them being a base.

-GC

Nope. Any acid-base chemistry you take orally will be neutralized to the narrow range the bloodstream requires for survival before it ever reaches the kidneys. What baking soda orally can do is neutralize oxalic acid that you've eaten so that it becomes a salt and is passed through the GI rather than entering the bloodstream and forming crystals in the kidneys.

There are herbs you can take to break down kidney stones over time, like gravelroot. If you don't have access to a good herb apothecary or an herbalist, then you won't know what you're doing. Yes the herbs work. They just take time.

How to prevent kidney stones depends on what your stones are made of. Usually they are calcium oxalate. Bile is a source of oxalate and so is the diet. You can lookup "high oxalate foods" and avoid those. To really prevent stones, you need to introduce more citrate into your diet. Most kidney stone formers do not get enough citrate, like from fruit. A glass of pure orange juice every day will give you enough citrate to prevent most new stone formation. Citrate binds calcium and it also binds oxalate... both ways prevent stones.

Citrate won't get rid of stones you currently have but it'll prevent new ones.

Interesting thanks for clearing this up. I was told that lemon Juice is a decent treatment to prevent kidney stones. I see its because it contains citrate and not because its acidic.

Just a side note drinking allot of iced tea can lead to kidney stones in some people.

 

[G_Chem]

Nope. Any acid-base chemistry you take orally will be neutralized to the narrow range the bloodstream requires for survival before it ever reaches the kidneys. What baking soda orally can do is neutralize oxalic acid that you've eaten so that it becomes a salt and is passed through the GI rather than entering the bloodstream and forming crystals in the kidneys.

There are herbs you can take to break down kidney stones over time, like gravelroot. If you don't have access to a good herb apothecary or an herbalist, then you won't know what you're doing. Yes the herbs work. They just take time.

How to prevent kidney stones depends on what your stones are made of. Usually they are calcium oxalate. Bile is a source of oxalate and so is the diet. You can lookup "high oxalate foods" and avoid those. To really prevent stones, you need to introduce more citrate into your diet. Most kidney stone formers do not get enough citrate, like from fruit. A glass of pure orange juice every day will give you enough citrate to prevent most new stone formation. Citrate binds calcium and it also binds oxalate... both ways prevent stones.

Citrate won't get rid of stones you currently have but it'll prevent new ones.

“Citrate” isn’t a thing.. Citric acid in fruit and orange juice is. But then you’re kind of contradicting your first statement that acids don’t do anything. Might wanna freshen up a bit there.

-GC

 

[neversickanymore]

@G_Chem

apparently it is

Citrate is a salt or ester of citric acid.

Citrate

Citrate | C6H5O7-3 | CID 31348 - structure, chemical names, physical and chemical properties, classification, patents, literature, biological activities, safety/hazards/toxicity information, supplier lists, and more.

pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Citrates are used to make the urine more alkaline (less acid). This helps prevent certain kinds of kidney stones.

Citrate (Oral Route) Description and Brand Names - Mayo Clinic

www.mayoclinic.org

Can lemon juice be an alternative to potassium citrate in the treatment of urinary calcium stones in patients with hypocitraturia? A prospective randomized study - PubMed

To investigate that lemon juice could be an alternative to potassium citrate in the treatment of urinary calcium stones in patients with hypocitraturia, 30 patients with hypocitraturic urinary calcium stones were enrolled into study. The patients were divided into three groups equally. Exactly...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[BWG707]

I seen doctors successfully use potassium citrate to dissolve stones of a certain type. It might be worth researching.

 

[Foreigner]

The statement about acid-base chemistry is completely untrue.

Physicians use ammonium chloride to acidify urine. In order to do that it has to go through the kidneys.

That's because ammonia is specifically processed by the kidneys into urine. Not all acids and bases can go that route.

Large doses of calcium carbonate like that found in antacid will actually basify urine.

That won't get rid of kidney stones.

Don't know where you heard that all acid/base chemistry is neutralized because it isn't. While it is true that most acidic foods and substances and most basic foods and substances don't make it to your kidneys, that's not true of everything.

That said, it is difficult to change the pH of urine (which happens inside the tubules of the kidney) with one specific compound, hence needing to use such a strong chemical like ammonium chloride to do so.

I thought we were talking about kidney stones, not the pH of urine.

 

[Foreigner]

Your statement about all acid base chemistry being neutralized by the blood before it gets to the kidneys is not factually correct.

If it was, you couldn't get lactic acidosis, or ketoacidosis from ingesting certain supplements chemicals and foods.

If you take too much baking soda, or calcium carbonate, you can end up with metabolic alkalosis where the blood becomes way too alkaline.

Those imbalances in the blood are almost immediately rectified by the kidney through acid base buffering. Alkalosis and acidosis represent malfunctions of those pH balancing systems. Those are not normal physiological conditions.

You're going off on an irrelevant tangent. The OP asked if ingesting acids or bases can be used to deal with kidney stones and the answer is no, they can't. They are neutralized too quickly in the blood of a physiologically normal human being. In the case that they aren't, like in acidosis and alkalosis, then you shouldn't be ingesting those things anyway because the body's buffering response is malfunctioning and you could become ill.

 

[Mr. Krinkle]

Lithotripsy will help you get rid of kidney stones

 

[Nurse Ratched]

Lithotripsy will help you get rid of kidney stones

Please explain ( in 10 words or less ) what this procedure is.

 

[Foreigner]

Please explain ( in 10 words or less ) what this procedure is.

An externally-applied sonic shockwave that breaks apart kidney stones.

 

[Nurse Ratched]

An externally-applied sonic shockwave that breaks apart kidney stones.

Thank you Sir.

 

[G_Chem]

@G_Chem

apparently it is

Citrate

Citrate | C6H5O7-3 | CID 31348 - structure, chemical names, physical and chemical properties, classification, patents, literature, biological activities, safety/hazards/toxicity information, supplier lists, and more.

pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Citrate (Oral Route) Description and Brand Names - Mayo Clinic

www.mayoclinic.org

Can lemon juice be an alternative to potassium citrate in the treatment of urinary calcium stones in patients with hypocitraturia? A prospective randomized study - PubMed

To investigate that lemon juice could be an alternative to potassium citrate in the treatment of urinary calcium stones in patients with hypocitraturia, 30 patients with hypocitraturic urinary calcium stones were enrolled into study. The patients were divided into three groups equally. Exactly...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

If you look at the link, it says “citrate is a salt or ester of citric acid.” As well as your quote, there are “citrates” plural but I can’t think of a substance simply called citrate unless I missing something. That quote should also be plural but they didn’t for whatever reason.

I will admit I didn’t realize citrates (such as say sodium citrate) could help. But I stand by my statement that there’s no such thing as “citrate” but a term used to denote the salt of citric acid (or ester.)

-GC

 

[MsDiz]

Lithotripsy will help you get rid of kidney stones

Correct and the best thing for large stones.

 

[Foreigner]

They'll only do the sonic shockwave version if you're not having an acute episode. In 2020 I had an acute kidney stone attack for the first time in my life, on my birthday no less. (Happy birthday!!) For that, I had to get surgery. They knock you out, go up your piss hole with a ureteroscope, through your bladder, all the way up the ureter to the kidney, and then use a laser to blast apart the stone (called laser lithotripsy). Then they leave a stent in your ureter so that it stays wide open and a string hangs out your piss hole for 7-10 days. This is to keep everything wide open so that pieces of the stone can pass. After 10 days, the doctor (or you) pulls on the string and the stent comes all the way down and out your piss hole.

A kidney stone attack is the worst pain I have ever experienced in my life, and I've experienced it all. All I could do was scream, I couldn't even stop myself from screaming. I screamed at home, in the ambulance ride, in the waiting room in the ER. I think they took me right away at the ER just to shut me up. They pushed 5mg of dilaudid every 25 minutes until I stopped screaming, then they did the surgery a day later. Having the stent in for 10 days also hurt like hell because it keeps your ureter open. So when your bladder contracts to make you piss, the piss also flows back up the ureter into your kidey and creates pressure. And the stent being pulled out with the string was like max 10/10 screaming pain but for only 5 seconds and then it's over.

If your doc finds large-ish kidney stones that could cause an acute episode in the future, definitely insist on the external shockwave lithotripsy. It's still painful but TRUST ME, you want to avoid an acute stone attack AT ALL COSTS. I now make sure I have a source of citrate in my diet, religiously, and avoid high oxalate foods. I never want to experience that again, ever ever. Seriously, if someone handed me a gun I would've shot myself. The stone blocking my ureter was huge though so YMMV.

 

[Nurse Ratched]

Only saw one person go through this and that was my Mom. And yes.....the screaming part is true. She got morphine in the ambulance.

She called me crying ( unlike her ) and told me what was happening. I called 911 and went to the hospital with her. She said the pain was unlike anything she had ever experienced.

 

[foodcrisis]

Potassium citrate and potassium bicarbonate are supposed to be in lemon i just googled, maybe that's why i started passing stones. some days i was using like ten large lemons in water, and i was drinking some santa cruz lemon juice some times too... i remember a few chunks of stone coming out days when i used higher doses of chancas piedras too... my kidneys are fine now, btw

thanks for clearing this up for me, even though the science is kind of over my head... from my experience, i don't think baking soda is good to take, i got super red eye like i said and it might've been actually causing stone, even though someone wrote that that shouldn't make it to the kidneys. idk.

like i said, i don't think i'm having problems with stones now, but maybe i will drink some lemon if i get some extra money to make sure the kidneys are clean