Do capsules make a difference?

[cj187]

I was thinking about my experiences with 4-substituted tryptamines and how the intensity of the trip varies so much and I noticed a trend. I seem to have more powerful experiences when I mix the powder in water and drink it than when I put it in a capsule. For example, the first time I tried 4-HO-MET, I weighed out 14mg and dissolved it in water, and had a surprisingly intense trip. I've taken it twice more since then, both times as 20mg in a capsule, and had disappointing results. Also 25mg of 4-AcO-DET in a capsule didn't feel any stronger than 18mg mixed in water. Has anyone else experienced the same thing?

 

[Xorkoth]

I feel the same way about every drug. I never use capsules, not even for AMT, I didn't even use capsules for my ibogaine flood dose. Capsules take time to dissolve and maybe it messes with the kinetics a bit, or maybe some is absorbed in your mouth and before the stomach when it's not blocked by a capsule. Whatever it is, it sure makes a difference. My friend and I have a thing we do something where we take a high dose of tryptamines, a single one or a combo, and then play music together for the whole trip. We always dissolve the doses in glasses of water, and it starts to hit in like 10 minutes. Like how mushroom tea hits faster.

I don't mind a little bad taste to facilitate better trips. I actually have gotten to the point where I let myself experience the flavor and just observe from an impartial viewpoint, some chemicals actually taste interesting even though yeah, they're bitter and aspects of it are unpleasant.

 

[TheAppleCore]

I've decided that mixing tryptamines in a small glass of orange juice is the ultimate way to dose. It circumvents the issues with capsules, masks the flavor extremely well (I can barely tell it apart from a normal glass of OJ), and I figure the extra little boost of fructose can't hurt either.

I don't mind a little bad taste to facilitate better trips. I actually have gotten to the point where I let myself experience the flavor and just observe from an impartial viewpoint, some chemicals actually taste interesting even though yeah, they're bitter and aspects of it are unpleasant.

Agreed... Tryptamines usually are horrible enough that I want to mask the flavor, but some chemicals actually almost taste good. Piracetam is my favorite. I read online that the flavor was disgustingly bitter, but I actually found it to be sweet like sugar at the onset, followed by a mildly bitter aftertaste. Kratom is another one that people complain about which I enjoy. It tastes nice and plant-y. Phenibut is kinda fun too, like sour candy.

 

[HeadphonesandLSD]

Anyone else with acid reflux not have this issue? The onset is faster for me without the capsule but the effects never seemed to differ. I've gotten where I'll cap it just so it'll surprise me.

 

[Xorkoth]

Phenibut is kinda fun too, like sour candy.

Yeah phenibut tastes great, I love it.

 

[Volsam]

Anyone else with acid reflux not have this issue? The onset is faster for me without the capsule but the effects never seemed to differ. I've gotten where I'll cap it just so it'll surprise me.

I have acid reflux and I also dont have any issues of feeling underdosed when using capsules. The onset is faster when dissolving in juice or water but the strength remains the same for me. Could there be a difference in capsules? I use the smallest #5 vegetarian capsules most of the time.

I like dosing in capsules and few hours later adding more dissolved in juice/water. My favorite is grapefruit juice but I know it messes up with enzymes and may potentiate lots of substances.

 

[bindingaffinity]

I've noticed this through my very limited experience of 4-subs, and also to a great degree with methoxetamine. Oral dosing with methoxetamine in water gives me a "hit over the head with a sack of bricks" level intensity on the comeup, whereas gelcapped it's much more of a slow burn, similar to biphasic dosing in water. I think it's true in general that perceived intensity of a drug is related to the speed of onset, and capsules will frequently slow that down.

I'm wondering what effect on kinetics breaking or chewing open a capsule would have. (There doesn't seem to be that much point to this but if I was travelling with something to take for later, I'd rather carry around a gelcap rather than a bag of powder or a dram bottle of solution.)

 

[HeadphonesandLSD]

I've noticed this through my very limited experience of 4-subs, and also to a great degree with methoxetamine. Oral dosing with methoxetamine in water gives me a "hit over the head with a sack of bricks" level intensity on the comeup, whereas gelcapped it's much more of a slow burn, similar to biphasic dosing in water. I think it's true in general that perceived intensity of a drug is related to the speed of onset, and capsules will frequently slow that down.

I'm wondering what effect on kinetics breaking or chewing open a capsule would have. (There doesn't seem to be that much point to this but if I was travelling with something to take for later, I'd rather carry around a gelcap rather than a bag of powder or a dram bottle of solution.)

If you wanted to carry around a gelcap but dose it that way you could drop it in soda or coffee and consume it discretely. Biting it open would work too but you'd have to wash it down with something anyway. Even if I like the taste of a substance I'm not a fan of letting it sit in my mouth too long. Probably just paranoia with most stuff but I worry about how it'll damage my teeth.

 

[TheAppleCore]

Even if I like the taste of a substance I'm not a fan of letting it sit in my mouth too long. Probably just paranoia with most stuff but I worry about how it'll damage my teeth.

With something as acidic as phenibut HCl, that's a legitimate concern. That's why I'm interested in trying freebase phenibut, which some nootropics suppliers sell.

 

[pofacedhoe]

Yeah phenibut tastes great, I love it.

its rank and i think this is like how people who smoke everyday come to like the taste of cigarettes.

phenibut tastes of really nasty vomit

 

[Tranced]

its rank and i think this is like how people who smoke everyday come to like the taste of cigarettes.

phenibut tastes of really nasty vomit

Nahh po, I genuinely love it. The other week I'd read that it tasted rank so I had a taste and ended up dunking it all on my tongue because it was so ridiculously sour, which I love. Choline is similar.

Maybe in an alternate reality phenibut is the coca cola of their world and children all across the earth are hooked on the acridly sour flavour and uplifting effects. "Try Phenerade - the only drink that tastes as good as it feels!", with some crooked creepy business board room rubbing their hands with glee.

 

[Xorkoth]

Yeah agreed, I liked it the first time I tasted it. I think it's down to different people have different tastes, and some people are more or less sensitive to taste too.

 

[tired of crap]

The pH of stomach acid is between 1.5 and 3.5 ...The pH of vinegar is 2.5 ... So I did a little test some years ago, its very simple.

Drop an empty cap into some vinegar... it takes maybe 10 minutes (i cant recall exactly) to dissolve.

I used to be a in a glass of water or juice guy.. But I notice very little difference (so to answer your question, yes I feel there is a difference) and then I dont have to taste anything. Yes each chemical is unique and yes Ive tasted each one Ive had but I cant say Im particularly fond of it.

To each their own but ill stick to capsules and wait the extra 5-10 minutes

 

[perpetualdawn]

good idea tired of crap ^

I've been wondering the same thing lately. Nice thing about gel caps is they let you pre-measure doses and keep them in a nice portable form. It's cool to taste the chemicals though, it gives you some information about what you're ingesting.

 

[tired of crap]

Yes its a good idea but i cant take credit for it. Someone on the nexus suggest it and my curiousity got the best of me after reading their suggestion ha.

I agree its fun to taste them and I have (and everything i have left is from.the same batch, so no need to go looking for differences haha). But im very taste sensitive, or atleast to things that dont necessarily taste like i should be ingesting them - and it bothers my stomach. And a stomach on the verge of unrest is not exactly my favourite way to start a trip after all the other preparations one may do. And i mean i can usually taste it when the capsule breaks open as if i burp (i find it creates a bit of gas) or sometimes i swear i can taste it just breathing ha

But i agree that capsules make for nice portable containers.

If youre concerned about them not opening soon enough Ive adedd something acidic (vinegar was a bad choice, oj was better) to them before to encourage them to dissolve sooner. ... Even high proof ethanol will eat through it pretty quick - i was dosing volumetrically, put it in a cap for portability and 30 min later the cap was mush and it had leaked all inside my epindorph tube. Washing it out with water was not my idea of a good time ha.