Stimulants Dirty stimulant high

[Kizaru]

Sorry @Kizaru - I missed that you’d asked me a direct question here otherwise I would have responded . I think @negrogesic gives better informed and more balanced answers to this question than I do and will ask him to respond. He has extensive personal experience of numerous stimulants both recreationally and therapeutically and greater knowledge than me about their chemistry and interaction with neurochemistry. And unlike me, he has avoided uncontrolled periods of meth use/abuse while taking it daily.

Hey no worries man , thanks for your reply !

 

[Kizaru]

Agreed that different drugs effect different people.

I absolutely love adderall but hate Ritalin and meth. Meth feels so dirty to me I can’t even fathom how people throw their life away over such garbage

But maybe it was bad quality meth , cause i see so many reports about Desoxyn which is the pharmaceutical meth and is rarely prescribed in the USA that felt much cleaner without the side effects profile of adderal and or dextro . No jittery etc all these kind of things . I think every stim can feel or be dirty its just what stims are unfortunately. These are therapeutic doses though with dex or Desoxyn .

 

[OpiateKiller]

But maybe it was bad quality meth , cause i see so many reports about Desoxyn which is the pharmaceutical meth and is rarely prescribed in the USA that felt much cleaner without the side effects profile of adderal and or dextro . No jittery etc all these kind of things . I think every stim can feel or be dirty its just what stims are unfortunately. These are therapeutic doses though with dex or Desoxyn .

Yeah they wont prescribe it though 99.9% chance youre not getting desoxyn unfortunstely

 

[Dreamflyer]

Why do stimulants always feel so bad for me ?
Amphetamine and or prescribed dexamphetamine always feel cold and dirty .
I like combining stims with ghb because of the bad side effects but still i always have so many rushes of dysphoria . The energy stims give always feel unhealthy even if i only do it ones in blue moon . I always get extreme existential Dread , feelings of intens guilt followed by aggression/depression/anxiety . And this is not even only in the comedown.

I've always felt the EXACT same way on stims, and still spent years dabbling in them before I finally realized that they don't get along with my brain chemistry.

I've done Cocaine, Crack, Adderall, Vyvanse, Ritalin, Ephedrine, Pseudoephedrine, Propylhexedrine, Theophylline, Phenylpropanolamine, and of course megadoses of Caffeine & Nicotine.

Because I tended to binge on things, they always left me feeling like an old used up tweaker/crackhead with my soul ripped out.

The last time that I took Adderall was around 2019. I was at the end of a 3-day binge (mostly watching porn), and the inside of my head literally felt as though was on fire. Now I know why they call it "frying your brain"! That morning I crushed 'em, flushed 'em and never looked back.

Stay safe, my friend,
Dreamflyer

 

[Kizaru]

Yeah they wont prescribe it though 99.9% chance youre not getting desoxyn unfortunstely

Maybe if i ask real nice that i want a nice clean meth high and that all street meth is garbage they are willing to prescribe it ?

Ps (kidding )

 

[Nas47]

They dirty also cause they lead to "dirty" sex.ha....but the comedown is awfull.some people like it more,thsn others...vut they are powerful drugs there's no doubt

 

[Kizaru]

They dirty also cause they lead to "dirty" sex.ha....but the comedown is awfull.some people like it more,thsn others...vut they are powerful drugs there's no doubt

Stim fapping

 

[unodelacosa]

But maybe it was bad quality meth , cause i see so many reports about Desoxyn which is the pharmaceutical meth and is rarely prescribed in the USA that felt much cleaner without the side effects profile of adderal and or dextro . No jittery etc all these kind of things . I think every stim can feel or be dirty its just what stims are unfortunately. These are therapeutic doses though with dex or Desoxyn .

Exactly – you're thinking here is correct. Meth and Adderall (read: amphetamine) are very similar in neurotransmitter profile. The main difference is that meth appears to be some 10 - 15 x more serotonergic than its primary amine, amphetamine. Qualitatively, it's a lot smoother and due to the fact that vaporizing and IV are more easily accessed RoAs, the potential for users to abuse the drug instead increases. In general, it sounds like you're using stims for libido- and sex-enhancing purposes which means you're using them recreationally. Adderall and Dexedrine are not recreational stimulants so much as they are productivity stimulants. As this is the case, trying to use productivity stims recreationally will lead to bad times and a shitty overall experience.

This is where you want a recreational stimulant. Similarly, recreational stims do not for useful productivity stims make. In other words, meth is for enjoyment while Adderall is for getting shit done.

Yeah they wont prescribe it though 99.9% chance youre not getting desoxyn unfortunstely

Right. In most doctor's eyes, prescribing Desoxyn or Methedrine = a malpractice lawsuit waiting to happen. Juries are unlikely to be sympathetic to the doctor, too. Maybe if you're obese and narcoleptic, but otherwise, don't count on it.

all street meth is garbage

Don't believe that crap. All street meth is definitely not garbage. The vast majority of it is clean and pure. People just have no idea what they're talking about, yet they think they're experts b/c they watch Breaking Bad twice or something. I'm not encouraging you to use meth, but it's a better recreational drug choice than Adderall, and if you do go this route, use caution, common sense, moderation, harm reduction techniques, and take care of your body – eat, hydrate, sleep, take breaks, etc. Also, don't edge all day; fap and move on to a creative endeavor or something. My $0.02 anyway.

 

[Kizaru]

Exactly – you're thinking here is correct. Meth and Adderall (read: amphetamine) are very similar in neurotransmitter profile. The main difference is that meth appears to be some 10 - 15 x more serotonergic than its primary amine, amphetamine. Qualitatively, it's a lot smoother and due to the fact that vaporizing and IV are more easily accessed RoAs, the potential for users to abuse the drug instead increases. In general, it sounds like you're using stims for libido- and sex-enhancing purposes which means you're using them recreationally. Adderall and Dexedrine are not recreational stimulants so much as they are productivity stimulants. As this is the case, trying to use productivity stims recreationally will lead to bad times and a shitty overall experience.

This is where you want a recreational stimulant. Similarly, recreational stims do not for useful productivity stims make. In other words, meth is for enjoyment while Adderall is for getting shit done.


Right. In most doctor's eyes, prescribing Desoxyn or Methedrine = a malpractice lawsuit waiting to happen. Juries are unlikely to be sympathetic to the doctor, too. Maybe if you're obese and narcoleptic, but otherwise, don't count on it.


Don't believe that crap. All street meth is definitely not garbage. The vast majority of it is clean and pure. People just have no idea what they're talking about, yet they think they're experts b/c they watch Breaking Bad twice or something. I'm not encouraging you to use meth, but it's a better recreational drug choice than Adderall, and if you do go this route, use caution, common sense, moderation, harm reduction techniques, and take care of your body – eat, hydrate, sleep, take breaks, etc. Also, don't edge all day; fap and move on to a creative endeavor or something. My $0.02 anyway.

Nice Thanks for the explenation . I think i understand what you say . Do normal amphetamines have any effect on the serontonin system or absolute nothing ? I don't feel it has any effect on serontonin though .

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

This is why I've always preferred heroin & opioids.
While opioids can be simultaneously sedating, I felt I had more energy & strength on them.
It was a "clean" feeling energy, like what I assume "non-depressed people" probably feel like.
There was no anxiety or tweaking, just a desire to get things done cause I felt so good.
And at the end of the day, they took away my insomnia (most of the time). Some nights I'd be stuck in that half-nod-half-awake but half asleep state. But I always enjoyed it.


Though I don't recommend anyone move onto opioids or anything.
I've met a lot of drug users in my life & it seems like the ones who use meth don't even care about things like opioids & people who used heroin & opioids didn't really care for meth. I used both at times. Maybe it was just the area I was in & the people I knew at the time. I've been surprised by the horrified reactions when I ask meth users if they know where to get heroin, as if I just asked them something totally off the rails (pun intended), lol. To each their own.

 

[unodelacosa]

Nice Thanks for the explenation . I think i understand what you say . Do normal amphetamines have any effect on the serontonin system or absolute nothing ? I don't feel it has any effect on serontonin though .

Be careful with such "feelings". Yes, the primary amine, amphetamine, has serotonergic activity, just not as much as the secondary amine, methamphetamine.

I've copied some data over from Reddit on monoamine releasing agents so you can compare.

NOTE: Please keep in mind lower values correspond to higher binding affinities + more release or more reuptake inhibition. In other words, less is more. You can see right away that amphetamine is a bigger releaser of norepinephrine (read: adrenaline) than either isomer of methamphetamine and it also causes greater reuptake of this neurotransmitter as well. I know this because its IC50 (nM) value is 7.07 for NE release while its NE reuptake inhibition, measured as a Ki (nM) value, is 38.9. These values are lower than those listed in rows 2 and 3 of Table 1 corresponding to methamphetamines isomers. I hope this makes sense.

Also: NE = norepinephrine | 5-HT = serotonin | DA = dopamine

Table 1

Drug	NE Release	NE Uptake	5-HT Release	5-HT Uptake	DA Release	DA Uptake
(+)-Amphetamine	7.07	38.9	1,765	3,830	24.8	34
(-)-Methamphetamine	28.5	234	4,640	14,000	416	4,840
(+)-Methamphetamine	12.3	48.0	736	2,137	24.5	114
(-)-Ephedrine	72.4	225	>10,000	>50,000	1,350	4,398
(+/-)-MDMA	77.4	462	56.6	238	376	1,572
Cocaine	>10,000	779	>10,000	304	>10,000	478
RTI-55	>10,000	5.89	>10,000	1	>10,000	0.83
RTI-229	>10,000	19.5	>10,000	362	>10,000	2.15

Source: Amphetamine-Type Central Nervous System Stimulants Release Norepinephrine More Potently Than They Release Dopamine and Serotonin, Rothman et. al.

Measurement: IC50 (nM) for release / Ki (nM) for uptake

---

Table 2

Drug	NE Release	DA Release	5-HT Release
4-FA	28	51.5	939
4-MA	22.2	44.1	53.4
(d)-Amphetamine	7.1	110.3	1,765
Benzylpiperazine	62	175	6,050
Cathine	15.0	68.3	-
(l)-Cathinone	1,206.2	18.5	2,366
(l)-ephedrine	43.1	236	>10,000
(d)-ephedrine	218	2,104	>10,000
(d)-Methamphetamine	489	24.5	736
(l)-Methamphetamine	234	4,480	>10,000
(l)-Methcathinone	707	14.8	1772
MDA	108	190	160
MDMA	110	278	72
Phenmetrazine	50.4	131	7,765
Psuedoephedrine	3112	1988	>10,000

Source: Releasing Agents - Release Affinities of Selected Compounds, References 4-9

Measurement: Ki (nM) for release

---

Table 3

Drug	NE Uptake	DA Uptake	NET Binding	DAT Binding
(d)-methylphenidate	46	28	408	139
(d/l)-methylphenidate	31	24	1,560	105
(d)-ethylphenidate	247	24	2,479	276
(d/l)-ethylphenidate	408	82	4,824	382

Source: Ethylphenidate - Pharmacodynamics, References 7-9

Measurement: Ki (nM) for transporter binding, IC50 for uptake

EDIT: Getting to my point finally, d-amphetamine's IC50 (nM) value for 5-HT release is 1,765 whereas d-methamphetamine's value is 736, quite a good bit lower.

 

[Neuroborean]

Ironically for me LSD is much more "stimulating" that most stims, and also much more pleasurable... I feel in control, I feel myself, not a fucking anxious robot.
NEP can feel more or less clean to me (when on the effects, not the comedown) and good quality 3-fea and 3-mmc also feel quite natural, but not always.
Pure dopaminy it's a no-no for me

also, quite ironically, yohimbe bark feels pretty clean for me, in low doses.

 

[Kizaru]

This is why I've always preferred heroin & opioids.
While opioids can be simultaneously sedating, I felt I had more energy & strength on them.
It was a "clean" feeling energy, like what I assume "non-depressed people" probably feel like.
There was no anxiety or tweaking, just a desire to get things done cause I felt so good.
And at the end of the day, they took away my insomnia (most of the time). Some nights I'd be stuck in that half-nod-half-awake but half asleep state. But I always enjoyed it.


Though I don't recommend anyone move onto opioids or anything.
I've met a lot of drug users in my life & it seems like the ones who use meth don't even care about things like opioids & people who used heroin & opioids didn't really care for meth. I used both at times. Maybe it was just the area I was in & the people I knew at the time. I've been surprised by the horrified reactions when I ask meth users if they know where to get heroin, as if I just asked them something totally off the rails (pun intended), lol. To each their own.

I became to notice i think i like opiods to. I am liking kratom alot . I have never done oxy or heroïne but i think that would be way to dangerous for my addictive personality . I suffer from severe depression and personality disorder . I tried many things , you think an opiod could ever be used for depression ?

 

[Kizaru]

Be careful with such "feelings". Yes, the primary amine, amphetamine, has serotonergic activity, just not as much as the secondary amine, methamphetamine.

I've copied some data over from Reddit on monoamine releasing agents so you can compare.

NOTE: Please keep in mind lower values correspond to higher binding affinities + more release or more reuptake inhibition. In other words, less is more. You can see right away that amphetamine is a bigger releaser of norepinephrine (read: adrenaline) than either isomer of methamphetamine and it also causes greater reuptake of this neurotransmitter as well. I know this because its IC50 (nM) value is 7.07 for NE release while its NE reuptake inhibition, measured as a Ki (nM) value, is 38.9. These values are lower than those listed in rows 2 and 3 of Table 1 corresponding to methamphetamines isomers. I hope this makes sense.

Also: NE = norepinephrine | 5-HT = serotonin | DA = dopamine

Table 1

Drug	NE Release	NE Uptake	5-HT Release	5-HT Uptake	DA Release	DA Uptake
(+)-Amphetamine	7.07	38.9	1,765	3,830	24.8	34
(-)-Methamphetamine	28.5	234	4,640	14,000	416	4,840
(+)-Methamphetamine	12.3	48.0	736	2,137	24.5	114
(-)-Ephedrine	72.4	225	>10,000	>50,000	1,350	4,398
(+/-)-MDMA	77.4	462	56.6	238	376	1,572
Cocaine	>10,000	779	>10,000	304	>10,000	478
RTI-55	>10,000	5.89	>10,000	1	>10,000	0.83
RTI-229	>10,000	19.5	>10,000	362	>10,000	2.15

Source: Amphetamine-Type Central Nervous System Stimulants Release Norepinephrine More Potently Than They Release Dopamine and Serotonin, Rothman et. al.

Measurement: IC50 (nM) for release / Ki (nM) for uptake

---

Table 2

Drug	NE Release	DA Release	5-HT Release
4-FA	28	51.5	939
4-MA	22.2	44.1	53.4
(d)-Amphetamine	7.1	110.3	1,765
Benzylpiperazine	62	175	6,050
Cathine	15.0	68.3	-
(l)-Cathinone	1,206.2	18.5	2,366
(l)-ephedrine	43.1	236	>10,000
(d)-ephedrine	218	2,104	>10,000
(d)-Methamphetamine	489	24.5	736
(l)-Methamphetamine	234	4,480	>10,000
(l)-Methcathinone	707	14.8	1772
MDA	108	190	160
MDMA	110	278	72
Phenmetrazine	50.4	131	7,765
Psuedoephedrine	3112	1988	>10,000

Source: Releasing Agents - Release Affinities of Selected Compounds, References 4-9

Measurement: Ki (nM) for release

---

Table 3

Drug	NE Uptake	DA Uptake	NET Binding	DAT Binding
(d)-methylphenidate	46	28	408	139
(d/l)-methylphenidate	31	24	1,560	105
(d)-ethylphenidate	247	24	2,479	276
(d/l)-ethylphenidate	408	82	4,824	382

Source: Ethylphenidate - Pharmacodynamics, References 7-9

Measurement: Ki (nM) for transporter binding, IC50 for uptake

EDIT: Getting to my point finally, d-amphetamine's IC50 (nM) value for 5-HT release is 1,765 whereas d-methamphetamine's value is 736, quite a good bit lower.

Just to be sure the lower the number the more effect it has on that receptor? Funny cause i was actually looking for these binding tables an hour ago literally

 

[unodelacosa]

Agreed that different drugs effect different people.

It's almost always within a certain realm of predictability with a few outliers to this dataset like exceptions that prove the rule.

I absolutely love adderall but hate Ritalin and meth. Meth feels so dirty to me I can’t even fathom how people throw their life away over such garbage

Are you sure you've had good, clean meth and you used the right amount in the correct way? It's pretty goddamn euphoric compared to the stiff, anxious, skin-crawly feel of gritty-ass amphetamine. But different strokes for different folks I suppose.

 

[unodelacosa]

Just to be sure the lower the number the more effect it has on that receptor?

Yes, exactly. Kinda like golf – the fewer the strokes / lower the score, the better.

 

[OpiateKiller]

It's almost always within a certain realm of predictability with a few outliers to this dataset like exceptions that prove the rule.


Are you sure you've had good, clean meth and you used the right amount in the correct way? It's pretty goddamn euphoric compared to the stiff, anxious, skin-crawly feel of gritty-ass amphetamine. But different strokes for different folks I suppose.

I mean I'm pretty positive it was from multiple different sources and every time it was overwhelming. I think the meth was too good. I don't sleep for at least 72 hours, can't eat, etc.

 

[unodelacosa]

I mean I'm pretty positive it was from multiple different sources and every time it was overwhelming. I think the meth was too good. I don't sleep for at least 72 hours, can't eat, etc.

What was your route of administration and how much did you take? Do you think it's likely that you took too much? I will grant you that doing too much definitely sucks but it's also not too hard to avoid if you mind your dosing and manage your comedowns carefully. Eat, take some vitamins, shower, and sleep. Go to work, don't slack on your duties, and personally I like Adderall / d-amphetamine for productivity and meth for recreational purposes. Occasionally I'll switch it up for α-PVP, 2-FMA, or some cathinone drug or another recreational stim along those lines.

Point is: segregate your time into productivity and recreation, and use the appropriate stimulant for either scenario (just use responsibly). A small dose of a benzo usually pushes just the right amount back against strong stimulants. If I get the balance right, it's puts me in a flow state. Just be cautious using benzos; be aware of the potential for dependency there and avoid it by avoiding tolerance to benzos.

 

[Dreamflyer]

Stim fapping

And of course Adderall always played a cruel joke on me by giving me "stim dick" from the vasoconstriction, so I'd spend half the night flogging a wet noodle!

 

[unodelacosa]

And of course Adderall always played a cruel joke on me by giving me "stim dick" from the vasoconstriction, so I'd spend half the night flogging a wet noodle!

All you need is a half dose of a PDE5 inhibitor like Cialis and you're good to go.