• Psychedelic Drugs Welcome Guest
    View threads about
    Posting RulesBluelight Rules
    PD's Best Threads Index
    Social ThreadSupport Bluelight
    Psychedelic Beginner's FAQ

Dirty Acid FAQ & Discussion

Do you believe qualitative differences between LSD products can matter / be felt?

  • Yes: the difference between dirty and clean LSD can be felt

    Votes: 8 32.0%
  • No: there is only LSD

    Votes: 17 68.0%

  • Total voters
    25
*snip*

I'm worried this thread may have reached a plateau. I feel like there's not really more to get into without reciting what has already been said, but I suppose there will always be new and lazy people to come around to ask or boast the same things...

Great thread Deino.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Thanks dude! And I definitely think you're right, I agree that this thread has plateaued to some extent, we've been through the argument from basically every angle, and people haven't altered their views either way (not that I expected them to), and so now we've got down to bickering about it apparently.

I think it's time for me to write up some more of the FAQ. That's one way to revive the thread, if people would comment on the two bits I've already written and/or (preferably and) either suggest some amendments or changes or write something up to submit for inclusion themselves.

I was hoping for a lot more feedback on the pieces of the FAQ i posted already, and by that I mean *any* feedback, as there's not been even a single post about either one. I'd like to think that this could be a document for the community, by the community, but the thread doesn't seem to be going in that direction. And that's cool, I don't mind writing it all up myself, I actually enjoy it a lot so I'm happy to do as much of it myself as I can, I just don't want other people to object to it all having been writte by me once the whole thing is done when they didn't say a shit about it while it was being developed. Speak now or forever hold your peace, like.
 
Get a life you ignorant mess! ChinaCat72 Is the godfather You need to click on some GD music and realize you are not the only one on this planet. Them RCs are getting to your ego.

Could this in anyway shape or form explain why a Vial I received was purple? It was very high quality

Actually Chinacat isn't any sort of chemist and the grateful dead "family" and other bands fans who sell drugs do not control have the market on most LSD at all since they are at the bottom of the barrel (literally) and can be sketchy as hell, and yes many do try to pass off research chemicals as acid.

Chinacat is just lot trash who would sell enough LSD to stay constantly high on cocaine and heroin. He's nothing special and his whole ramblings he posted at the shroomery are total bullshit. I once saw a post where he wrote about using LSD as a sex lube and how he'd blow his load in less than 5 mins that way.

Your vial was just purple because of food coloring or dye that was added.
 
*snip*

Actually Chinacat isn't any sort of chemist and the grateful dead "family" and other bands fans who sell drugs do not control have the market on most LSD at all since they are at the bottom of the barrel (literally) and can be sketchy as hell, and yes many do try to pass off research chemicals as acid.

Chinacat is just lot trash who would sell enough LSD to stay constantly high on cocaine and heroin. He's nothing special and his whole ramblings he posted at the shroomery are total bullshit. I once saw a post where he wrote about using LSD as a sex lube and how he'd blow his load in less than 5 mins that way.

HAHA Bullshit, ChinaCat carried 5+grams of Raw LSD at all times and now he is getting his PHD and some of the country's most profound science programs. Please provide evidence of the Sex Lube? Lot trash?! WTF does that even mean.

Chinacat could come in and clear up any question we have on LSD he ran the scene when it was booming. Worked with every crystal in the USA at the time and was greatly acknowledged by the Dead.

He is definitely a chemist now I believe he is becoming a doctor at the current moment.

If Chinacat is lot trash count me in.

You guys are just dogging on him because he is the only person to ever put into words online what actually goes down in the LSD scene.

He would make us all look like children with his knowledge and experience.

You are Bullocks!!!!! And Batshitcrazy
 
Last edited by a moderator:
For the comment on packs = heroin 8(
I did not mean heroin. In the USA LSD packs can mean a few things. A "Ten" pack is 10 sheets of LSD. But, that is not how I used it. Packs to me and the people I associate with are any number of grams. 1 gram is a pack (10 ten packs) ,5 pack 5 grams and so on and so forth.

About chinacat, there shouldn't be any arguing over if he is or isn;t real. Unless, you know him personally and spent time with him, you don't know... Some things he says are factual others seem a little out there. Certainly didn't just create the whole thing from imagination as people who have shared some of the same experiences verify particular parts of his stories. Also who the fuck cares what other drugs he used. The grateful dead lot in the 80's and 90's brought upon lots of dark things. Heroin and speed were some of the major ones. That doesn't automatically means his stories and experiences were fake. Though, I'm not sure why that matters in this thread.
 
The reason I brought him up was because everyone was trying to disprove there was such thing as a needlepoint crystal, Chinacat talks about his experiences with Needle, and I would say most of his info is factual. That man does not need to make any stories up. Your right on point Alps man, the dead following did bring the H and Speed into that scene that doesn't mean they still didn't know a shitload about LSD.
 
Yeah, you know what? I responded to your post politely, I specified that I didn't want to fight, I asked for examples of the differences between the UK and US acid distribution networks so as to turn useless bickering into constructive discussion, and you hand me this shit sandwich? Well it turns out I don't like the taste of shit sandwich that much, so let me return the favor. You chose exactly the wrong person to attack, full stop, end of story.

So, as befits your kind, I will publicly humiliate you. Shall we begin?

WELL IF YOU WANT TO MAKE THINGS EXPLICITLY CLEAR THEN KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT THIS IS YOUR THREAD AFTER ALL.

This isn't my thread. It isn't anybody's thread. But might I remind you that you're the one who has been spouting off dubious information and making extraordinary claims while refusing to even slightly attempt to back up your meandering, nonsensical garbage with even a perfunctory effort at backing up your statements. I would also suggest you leave capital letters to those of us who know how to properly form sentences. Your all-caps scream-fest here makes you look even more petty and childlike than the dubious content of the message itself.

Sure in the Dope scene Packs may be bundles of H.
In the Ganja world Packs are pounds.

Yeah, sure, plural for drugs is 'packs'. No doubt about it. In fact why don't we just let 'packs' be the term for all collective nouns? No need for a host of angels or an intrusion of cockroaches, it's packs of angels and cockroaches henceforth.

You seem to have a real issue with posting opinions as factual declarations. May I remind you that being a narcissist does not in fact make you the de facto authority on everything? You've been doing this all throughout this thread, and I'm sick of it. No matter how badly your infantile, emotionally-stunted self may wish to force some semblance of control onto a world that is just too chaotic and complex for you to really comprehend, reality does not bend to the whims of a human being, no matter how they may contort theirselves with rage and flail their limbs about. And I daresay that if this post is anything, it is tantamount to such a tantrum or fit as I have just described.

THIS IS AN LSD THREAD IN LSD CULTURE PACKS ARE 10 SHEETS 1,000 HITS OF LSD.
WOOKS ARE WOOKIE FOOT GROUPIES THEY ACTUALLY CALL THEM SELVES WOOKS.
WOOKS COULD GIVE A SHIT IF THEY ARE BLACK WHITE OR YELLOW, WE ARE ALL PEOPLE

No. I'm sorry but no matter how loudly you yell about something it doesn't make it true! Why is it that the dude that I accused of being a fucking racist can calmly and clearly laugh it off an explain that slang means X where he's from while it means Y in midwestern America? From his posts I don't think Alps is a damsel in distress that you need to white knight for, he can clearly take care of himself. I don't see why you even care about this, it had nothing to do with you until you needlessly interjected your whining, intellectually-handicapped self into the discussion!

It'sALLfake came up with the explanation, dreadlocked dirty hippies = wooks apparently. So not only are you frantically twitching and gibbering about an accusation I mistakenly made about *someone else*, you're logically-improbable arguments about why I'm wrong are *themselves* wrong! It has exactly *nothing* to do with any psychedelic rock band, or fans thereof, yet you cling to this explanation after other people have posited more likely theories – and after Alps explained the issue *himself* – because in concord with your complete lack of maturity, you refuse to acknowledge you may have erred.

I can admit I erred, and on a subject a hell of a lot stronger and more potentially heated than having improbably explained the etymology of a term, the subject being racism no less! I take no shame in being wrong, why must you fail in the capability to do the same?

Don't point racist fingers when you are completely wrong in your own thread.

Don't start fights with people as verbally dangerous as myself on behalf of other people who do not need to be defended.

You are again incorrect here as well. In the midwest, a wook is a rude term for a black person, a pack is twelve bags of heroin, a lot is an empty lot as found in the ghetto, and hustling is selling drugs, often in an open-air drug market. So you can't take issue with my assessment of that statement because *both meanings of the phrase are equally valid*, both a racist description of a heroin dealer and apparently some dude with dreads selling acid outside a show! There is no debate that wook isn't a racist term in that context; it is, it is commonly used around here, as are all of the other relevant terms regarding heroin and the selling of heroin.

Stop wasting space with your uncontrolled ranting! If you don't like finger-pointing and accusations, don't turn around and *in the same damn sentence make finger-pointing accusations of my being wrong as some form of misconduct*!

HAHA Bullshit, ChinaCat carried 5+grams of Raw LSD at all times and now he is getting his PHD and some of the country's most profound science programs. Please provide evidence of the Sex Lube? Lot trash?! WTF does that even mean.

And now you're just being disingenuous and contrary to be disingenuous and contrary, not to mention being utterly ridiculous. Cause yeah, I'm sure some dude you don't even know surely carried five grams of raw LSD while taking a shower, or having sex, or going to class in this 'profound science program', whatever the hell that's supposed to mean. How the hell would you even know even if this dude was crazy enough to bring LSD to school for no good reason? You don't *know* the dude, you've just stitched together random pieces of urban legend trash and misinformed conjecture and some weird, twisted form of personality cult, forming some crazy web of unsupported inference, and then you've screamed it from the proverbial rooftops here on the Internet. Woo, go you!

And your web of nonsense is even internally contradictory for christsake! If this dude is so totally awesome and intelligent so as to be 'the Godfather' of LSD distribution in the UK – your actual exaggerated wording, not mine – and is again so smart as to be in the ambiguously defined 'top science program', whatever that is supposed to mean / whatever connotation – seemingly that of bourgeoise intellectual mastery – you seek to this attach to his alias, why in gods name should be be so stupid as to carry multi-gram quantities of LSD with him literally everywhere be goes? That is like the most foolish form of criminal stupidity you can imagine! And it's even more absurd because grams of raw LSD aren't even useful things for distribution of retail-level doses of the stuff, the only reason presumably that somebody would carry acid *everywhere* being so as to be able to make a sale at any time, anywhere. But you can't do that with raw, dude! You need to lay it as blotter or dilute it into liquid first! Nobody just goes around with raw LSD in gram quantities on the *off chance* that they would find themselves in the infinitely improbable situation of being propositioned thus 'Hey random stranger! I wanna trip balls! You wouldn't by chance have several grams of LSD for sale, would you?'

Sex lube – and how you don't know this I do not know – is a lubricating substance designed to reduce friction between sensitive erogenous areas during sex, primarily when that sex is penetrative.

Lot trash is apparently the shitty, scummy kids who skulk about trying to pass of NBOMes as acid, as Alps alluded to in his wook post.

Chinacat could come in and clear up any question we have on LSD he ran the scene when it was booming. Worked with every crystal in the USA at the time and was greatly acknowledged by the Dead

Oh jeez this post just gets worse and worse. Nobody has *all the knowledge* of LSD, because nobody can know everything about anything! Objective reality is not at the moment – if ever – subject to our understanding in an utterly complete way!

I'm not even going to waste more time on this one, it shall suffice to say that nobody has ever cornered the market for LSD entirely in the US. Some have gotten close, supplying a huge portion of the market, Pickard being an example, but to suggest *every single molecule* of LSD passed through this dude – who I remind you that you do not actually personally know – is patently false and absurd as a proposition.

He is definitely a chemist now I believe he is becoming a doctor at the current moment.

If Chinacat is lot trash count me in.

You guys are just dogging on him because he is the only person to ever put into words online what actually goes down in the LSD scene.

He would make us all look like children with his knowledge and experience.

You are Bullocks!!!!! And Batshitcrazy

And again, statements of opinion as fact, based on nothing, and then 'locked in' by ad hominem attacks.

If you had a whit of sense in your head you would have seen my post for what it was and taken the opportunity it implicitly offered – an attempt to put the thread back on track by subtly shifting your perpetual bickering to a more productive form of discussion: comparative study of distribution networks in the US and UK. I even gave you a discreet way out of your boxing match with Anon, in such a way as you could retain your apparently fragile manhood and sense of pride by changing the terms of the argument without having to admit you were potentially wrong or without having to face up to being overly and unnecessarily contentious. And if you had a whit of *common* sense you would NOT have chosen to verbally fence with me of all people. Judging by the reasonably well-constructed material I've written in this thread and others so far, what would possess you to think you could possibly do anything effective by shouting and waving your arms and attacking people ad hominem?

Up until now I've let you have your fun. You've bickered and tried to shit on basically everybody here, and they have not taken kindly to that. You've posted unfounded nonsense on many occasions, but to my eyes you seemed to be a genuine person who was perhaps a little too quick to anger and a little too defensive of your own opinions, often failing to see the difference between opinion and fact. These are unfortunately common human failings. And while I would certainly rather we didn't bicker and post nonsense, I assumed you were simply a little too enthusiastic but generally well-intentioned.

Unfortunately, this post revealed you for who you really are: an egotistical maniac that cannot separate fact from fiction from speculation, who gets into literally child-like screaming matches over an accusation I levied against *someone else* that you thought was unfair. A person who is completely immersed in a sea of unreality, choosing to take the word of random people on a web forum as god-given truth (this regards chinacat). Even the failings of being completely unable to differentiate fact from conjecture or to be so naive as to believe random strangers on the shroomery, taking their words at face value, could be excused. But your seemingly boundless rage and your habit of attacking everyone and anyone in ALL CAPS without even an atom of provocation cannot be excused. Worse, your attacks are paltry, weak failures, rooted in what I expect is an inherent feeling of inferiority for whatever reason, which motivates your faux-Napoleonic behavior.

So, since this is 'my thread' according to you, GET OUT. And do NOT return. If you do I will take EVERY SINGLE ONE of your posts on ANY subject matter apart into bloody, eviscerated scraps of nonsense, and then SET THEM ON FIRE, as I have just done here. You have now made yourself persona non grata to me, I will NOT brook your insolent tone or your bickering, infantile, rude behavior, not even once. I started this thread for the purposes of RATIONAL DISCOURSE on a thorny topic, and I will not see you fuck it up, or try to fuck it up, because the standards for what makes debate civilized – no matter how vociferous the disagreement – to which I, and I think others here, wish to adhere, are apparently TOO DIFFICULT for you to comply with.

Begone. Do NOT come back at me with an even more disrespectful post than the last. As I have said once before in PD, I do not talk crap often, and my standards for what will bring me to talk crap are very high, but when crap talk I must, I do not talk crap idly.

As an aside then, for you to ponder as you lick your wounds SOMEWHERE ELSE, you may wish to examine these last few paragraphs closely, as they demonstrate how to CORRECTLY use capital letters when the situation warrants that they be loosed upon an adversary. And as a going away present, I am reporting your post for the ad hominem garbage and generally inappropriate tone. You may not have noticed, so just in case, I bring to your attention that I haven't had to call you names even once, yet I have destroyed your credibility in this thread utterly. Names like 'bullocks' – I do believe you meant bollocks, as bullocks refers to cattle – or the interesting agglutinative form 'batshitcrazy'.

Godspeed, EB, and good riddance.
 
EarthBounded... when LSD degrades into iso and lumi byproducts, the color can change. Liquid that was clear turned with the same purple glimmer you described after a few years. Still very good - just about half as strong. LSD degrades not by quality, but by mcg. It isn't neccesarily these things that cause the side effects, its other chemicals and byproducts from the synthesis that are leftover. This black liquid (black fluff, champagne by chinacats terms [lol on the bashing]) is going around on all the hunab ku's (called silver). The whole 98mcg needlepoint = two 49mcg black champagne still works out, but you have to consider that the other 51mcg of stuff in there may be partly LSD ergoloid compounds (degraded or leftover from the synthesis, hell there could be anything in the gnarly crystal that isn't L from the synth), but like Bear's interview, there are other nanoparticles or other catalysts in it that aren't even LSD related that can cause those terrible body effects.


When I asked my friend (O Chem major, on his way to pHD, 2nd year), he said that it would be other byproducts attached to the L molecule carried through the synth, never stripped or cleaned from halfhazardness or mistakes.

To say that there isn't enough of these to make an affect since there measured on the mcg scale, keep in mind lots of toxins take less then ~2mg to kill an entire full grown man, with 500mcg enough to physically disable them temporarily and cause HORRIBLE side effects. These toxins are easy to make and have been made accidentally through ergot poisoning (St. Anthonys Fire as discussed) to frog poison to botulin (botox) to mushrooms (amanita species). They're could totally be enough to cause physical discomfort, and completely result from a synthesis from an organic product.

We will never know beyond empirical evidence until someone sends in the nasty champagne crystal that is the dirty dirty ATM (or the cleaned up version, rose, a nice light blue xtal is still dirty but not as bad) and see the differences. Even then, there wouldn't be a graph to match the GC/MS tests to since the compounds that cause the problems are unknown, leaving it just to even more, albeit further educated guesses.


The Swiss bliss I eat has never caused a single maladie in anyone. Everytime someone ate the champagne and myself, or someone ate it not by my friends (same L, seed of life hunab ku) (which I dont even eat/feed to people anymore), they always reported the same negative side effects. Say this is mental, subjective, set and setting dependent... but we are talking in the hundreds and hundreds of people here. maybe we're working on empirical evidence, but it's more solid then speculation.

You can build a hierarchy, akin to chinacats, of what's around right now in cleanliness.

Swiss Bliss (WoW, kesey prints, dalai llamas)
white xtal from amsterdam
white fluff domestic (wow) (on par with white from amsterdam)
Czech xtal (wow, many other euro prints too)
euro silver (shivas, ganeshas)
blue (some call it rose, was also going around on canadian prints, better of the two batches)
lavender (nice purple crystal floating round from eugene, liquid usually)
champagne (mostly going around on canadian prints, a la hunab ku)


there are a few smaller batches of stuff going around thats not factored in because its not publicly available (super clean white fluff, smaller boutique batches coming out of north california). then of course there's some legacy crystal like the clear that was going around on tye dye prints (90s l) and of course more legacy smaller batches.. but that mainly covers it.


keep in mind a lot of the stuff people use to make it, there making in new ways. Like dialethymide can be obtained from DEET. now that these are becoming more public, maybe someone is actually employing it, and resulting with a more gnarly product? also the starting precursors aren't nearly as good, obtained from homegrown claviceps per chance. if your starting point has contaminants, you open up the whole pandoras box of what could be in the end product!
 
Last edited:
EarthBounded... when LSD degrades into iso and lumi byproducts, the color can change. Liquid that was clear turned with the same purple glimmer you described after a few years. Still very good - just about half as strong. LSD degrades not by quality, but by mcg. It isn't neccesarily these things that cause the side effects, its other chemicals and byproducts from the synthesis that are leftover. This black liquid (black fluff, champagne by chinacats terms [lol on the bashing]) is going around on all the hunab ku's (called silver). The whole 98mcg needlepoint = two 49mcg black champagne still works out, but you have to consider that the other 51mcg of stuff in there may be partly LSD ergoloid compounds (degraded or leftover from the synthesis, hell there could be anything in the gnarly crystal that isn't L from the synth), but like Bear's interview, there are other nanoparticles or other catalysts in it that aren't even LSD related that can cause those terrible body effects.


When I asked my friend (O Chem major, on his way to pHD, 2nd year), he said that it would be other byproducts attached to the L molecule carried through the synth, never stripped or cleaned from halfhazardness or mistakes.

To say that there isn't enough of these to make an affect since there measured on the mcg scale, keep in mind lots of toxins take less then ~2mg to kill an entire full grown man, with 500mcg enough to physically disable them temporarily and cause HORRIBLE side effects. These toxins are easy to make and have been made accidentally through ergot poisoning (St. Anthonys Fire as discussed) to frog poison to botulin (botox) to mushrooms (amanita species). They're could totally be enough to cause physical discomfort, and completely result from a synthesis from an organic product.

Okay, but you're not going to find those poisons in a blotter. The only real way to get impurities is from using impure precursors, but the quantities are by definition so small that you're not going to get physiological effects from anything that could plausibly be there at that level. We've been through this before.

We will never know beyond empirical evidence until someone sends in the nasty champagne crystal that is the dirty dirty ATM (or the cleaned up version, rose, a nice light blue xtal is still dirty but not as bad) and see the differences. Even then, there wouldn't be a graph to match the GC/MS tests to since the compounds that cause the problems are unknown, leaving it just to even more, albeit further educated guesses.

Except that's now how GC/MS works. When you use electron ionization for the ionization method, you bombard the chemical sample with electrons. Simply put, this will 'knock' a second electron loose, one that had until then been in one of the orbitals of one of the sample molecules. This makes the molecule fragment, but the fragmentation can take place at any of the C-C bonds for an aliphatic compound, for example. So you analyze all those fragments, and then by looking at those fragments you can figure out what the shape of the molecule is by extrapolating the full structure from the variations of the fragmentated molecules. Even though the fragments are not all produced in the same abundance, that is actually a plus because that helps identify the molecule also by showing which bonds are more to the terminal ends and which are more in the middle, using that example of an aliphatic chain.

The Swiss bliss I eat has never caused a single maladie in anyone. Everytime someone ate the champagne and myself, or someone ate it not by my friends (same L, seed of life hunab ku) (which I dont even eat/feed to people anymore), they always reported the same negative side effects. Say this is mental, subjective, set and setting dependent... but we are talking in the hundreds and hundreds of people here. maybe we're working on empirical evidence, but it's more solid then speculation.

You can build a hierarchy, akin to chinacats, of what's around right now in cleanliness.

Swiss Bliss (WoW, kesey prints, dalai llamas)
white xtal from amsterdam
white fluff domestic (wow) (on par with white from amsterdam)
Czech xtal (wow, many other euro prints too)
euro silver (shivas, ganeshas)
blue (some call it rose, was also going around on canadian prints, better of the two batches)
lavender (nice purple crystal floating round from eugene, liquid usually)
champagne (mostly going around on canadian prints, a la hunab ku)

there are a few smaller batches of stuff going around thats not factored in because its not publicly available (super clean white fluff, smaller boutique batches coming out of north california). then of course there's some legacy crystal like the clear that was going around on tye dye prints (90s l) and of course more legacy smaller batches.. but that mainly covers it.

keep in mind a lot of the stuff people use to make it, there making in new ways. Like dialethymide can be obtained from DEET. now that these are becoming more public, maybe someone is actually employing it, and resulting with a more gnarly product? also the starting precursors aren't nearly as good, obtained from homegrown claviceps per chance. if your starting point has contaminants, you open up the whole pandoras box of what could be in the end product!

Oy vey. Ignoring the hierarchy of quality, I'm just going to focus on the DEET to diethylamide thing. DEET has an actual diethylamide moiety, that's what the side chain is. So sure you can sever that. But then it isn't DEET anymore, and ceases to have any relation to DEET, and so who gives shits if it comes out of a pesticide or insect repellant, now it's no longer insect repellant and is now diethylamide, with all the changes in properties that implies.

And besides, you don't really have many easy ways to stick diethylamide into something to make acid. You'd have to stick it onto that carbon there, in replacement of a hydrogen, and we just don't as organic chemists have easy ways to pull off specific positioned sigma bonding between carbons. Don't get me wrong, you can make sigma bonds between carbons but its not easy, Diels-Alder is a good example of one trick (that we still don't know totally how it works). So instead we utilize more reactive species like oxygens and nitrogens. Hence using diethylamine with a dehydration agent to take lysergic acid and take the hydroxy off the lysergic and a hydrogen off the diethylamine nitrogen, getting the water as specified by dehydration, and then the lysergic and diethylamine are both missing an atom to put it simply and they react, so you get LSD. So even if diethylamide can be made by cleavage from DEET I don't see why that should matter since its so difficult to put that onto the ring when you can do it the easy way. Then again if you know how that diethylamide could be used please PM me and we can discuss it without breaking BLUA. I have no plans to make any acid, I'm just academically interested if there's a way to be that precise with substituting on that diethylamide (and technically diethylamide is a functional group, so it has to be a part of some larger molecule, there's no such thing as free diethylamide but for simplicity sake I said it that way).
 
1. Let's not gossip about people from other forums, it's impolite.

2. You don't have to make multi-paragraph responses to tangential arguments and pedantically prove that every sentence the other guy makes is wrong. Just saying.

so giving subjective feelings on why you think it's plausible something in a batch of LSD outside of LSD itself that causes negative effects.

Related reading.
 
2. You don't have to make multi-paragraph responses to tangential arguments and pedantically prove that every sentence the other guy makes is wrong. Just saying.

Yup, please stay on topic and keep personal arguments to PM. I don't have time to trim this now and will temporarily close this thread if off-topic flaming continues until I can review it properly.
 
Last edited:
The Swiss bliss I eat has never caused a single maladie in anyone. Everytime someone ate the champagne and myself, or someone ate it not by my friends (same L, seed of life hunab ku) (which I dont even eat/feed to people anymore), they always reported the same negative side effects. Say this is mental, subjective, set and setting dependent... but we are talking in the hundreds and hundreds of people here. maybe we're working on empirical evidence, but it's more solid then speculation.

You can build a hierarchy, akin to chinacats, of what's around right now in cleanliness.

Swiss Bliss (WoW, kesey prints, dalai llamas)
white xtal from amsterdam
white fluff domestic (wow) (on par with white from amsterdam)
Czech xtal (wow, many other euro prints too)
euro silver (shivas, ganeshas)
blue (some call it rose, was also going around on canadian prints, better of the two batches)
lavender (nice purple crystal floating round from eugene, liquid usually)
champagne (mostly going around on canadian prints, a la hunab ku)


there are a few smaller batches of stuff going around thats not factored in because its not publicly available (super clean white fluff, smaller boutique batches coming out of north california). then of course there's some legacy crystal like the clear that was going around on tye dye prints (90s l) and of course more legacy smaller batches.. but that mainly covers it.


keep in mind a lot of the stuff people use to make it, there making in new ways. Like dialethymide can be obtained from DEET. now that these are becoming more public, maybe someone is actually employing it, and resulting with a more gnarly product? also the starting precursors aren't nearly as good, obtained from homegrown claviceps per chance. if your starting point has contaminants, you open up the whole pandoras box of what could be in the end product!

Nice that someones mentioning Swiss Bliss. Its not from Switzerland but actually Oregon. Its not made from claviceps or ET like other L but is a total synthesis. Thats why it's so clean. We try to keep it in the North West but it sometimes leaks out despite our wishes.
 
10/4 I was having a terrible morning and I just popped 3 xanax and thats about all I have to say My bad, I just get irritated when people assume stuff like that and think us USA LSD folk are just plain stupid or racist in that case, on top of my super shitty morning I should have kept it chill and we should get back on track.

I believe all this argument is relevant still to " dirty acid " batches. hopefully we can get something figured out working together. I'll let me ego slide on future comments :) My bad don't riddance me homie there is a lot of things we need to learn about over seas markets and networks I sure as hell dont know how shit goes down in the UK and I would love to learn.

My apologies I will tone it down, uncalled for. I will leave it at that.
Secondly can anyone even define dirty acid yet have we made a conclusion on the actual definition. I'm serious we should outline that in some way, sorry I've been rude but if we can actually define what it means I think that would get us back on topic

Well. I have to say, between this post and the PM you sent me, I'm kinda surprised. Not because I would necessarily think you specifically wouldn't apologize but because I wouldn't expect pretty much anybody to apologize, especially after I yelled at you like that. As much as I am loath to allow people to use the 'but it wasn't me, it was the drugs!' excuse, I know from personal experience that if there were ever a time of ever a drug that would be legitimate in that statement, it would be Xanax or another similar benzo. Anyway, xanax aside, that's very big of you, as a person I mean, it takes a certain kind of internal maturity and a willingness to check your ego, so sure, apology accepted. That's very nice of you, and it's only right that I apologize back for yelling at you.

Lets try then to keep things on track and not bicker so much if possible.

As for folks from the USA being stupid or racist, or both, I hate to say it but as an American myself there are far too many of that type around. Not everybody, I'm not gonna make ridiculous generalizations like that, but it does disappoint and sadden me how many people here fit those criteria. From my travels to other countries, yeah, foreign nations have their share of douchenozzels as well, but we seem to have a higher proportion by far, least to my eyes.

I have been wondering this for a while...

First off thank you for the info on the purple color of my V :)

Great info wow thats more than I have learned in a bit about whats circulating, I've seen half of those varieties Learning the other half is nice to know :)

First off Thank you for IDing those Kesey prints I asked on here for like 6 months no one knew, I love those with all my heart.

Second question is Lavender crystal actually Purple in color or is it white / off white?

BTW.... I still love ChinaCats stories and info and tons of others do to. I believe he was relevant when everyone was arguing about needlepoint again thats why I brought him up. Who is to say he is right or wrong... I'll drop it

I'm not gonna get into the chinacat stuff, but I'll address this idea of placing acid in a hierarchy like that. I would say that if it were true – which I still dispute – that there is dirty acid, I would still be very surprised if a person could really tell what the purity levels and levels of negative effects from 'dirtiness' are with any accuracy. Sorry typewriter, I'm not trying to shit on your parade, I simply think that just as I believe that Alps couldn't use his body to gauge percentage of purity, so it goes that you probably can't either.

This isn't an inferior trait or anything either. Rather it's simply that humans are terrible at being accurate like that, our senses are heavily modified by the brain before their encoded content becomes known to our conscious perception. Our senses are not perfect you see, there's a lot of information they don't capture entirely. For example, everybody knows that there's a blind spot in each eye as a result of there being no photosensitive rods and comes where the optic nerve passes through the optic disc. Our brains interpolate and extrapolate what should be in that location so that we don't perceive the hole in our vision. But while this is as I say common knowledge, it isn't as widely understood that the number of cons cells – the photosensitive cells that detect color and resolve fine detail much better than the rods that see in low-light situations – drops off dramatically as one moves from the center of our visual field outwards. And yet our peripheral vision covers this area anyway. Since the number of cones decreases but we don't perceive this, in the sense that we don't notice the *resolution* of the peripheral vision dropping as we notice the way that low resolution computer images (not a perfect object for analogy at all but it'll do) look pixelated, the brain is obviously filling these areas in with predictions and extrapolations so as to make this drop in resolution invisible.

This is just for vision, but this goes for all senses. For example, I'm a recording and mixing engineer for audio, and the way that we perceive the volume of a sound as the frequency varies is not just nonlinear, it's not even really a simple curve at all. Instead it looks like this:
3897E83C-B9BD-43F6-8D81-A3625ABCD3EA-1721-000002526135BF4D_zps223df0ef.jpg

And that's without any hearing loss, which occurs totally unevenly across the frequency spectrum, with any losses being confined to a very small bandwidth, but with those individual losses in small bandwidths all adding together. What this means though is that because of the narrow bandwidth of the affected area for a single instance of hearing loss, the resulting frequency response plot will vary wildly over short bandwidths due to that effect.

Anyway help reading the graph: what it shows is that for a sound that is at 20 hz to be perceived to be as loud as a sound at 100 dB at 1000 hz, the 20 hz tone must actually be 110 dB, in order to perceive it as equally loud. This is because our ears are more sensitive at midrange frequencies because that's where the human voice is, and that's where a lot of noises relative to a hominin trying to survive on the savannas of Adrica are also located.

So human senses are inherently nonlinear and inaccurate and thus interpolated and extrapolated and equalized. I would venture that the perception of discomfort or other negative effects from dirty acid is probably one of the most inaccurate of all senses, not just because our nerves that have that job are complex and the machinery of perception of those signals in the unconscious brain is even more complex, but also because you're going to be in discomfort while you're perceiving that, so you'll be distracted and possibly will believe it to be worse than it is, or not realize just how bad it is, though I bet the first is more likely.

Anyway so I don't think that the human body is a good measuring instrument for things like the quality of acid, assuming dirty acid was actually real. The only way I would trust any sort of ranking system based on the human body would be if it were many hundreds of people with their rankings averaged, or the median taken.

What does everybody else think on this subject? Can – or better said should – the human body ever be trusted in such a manner, as a measuring device?


Yup, please stay on topic and keep personal arguments to PM. I don't have time to trim this now and will close this thread if off-topic flaming continues until I can review it properly.

Please don't take this personally, because it's not meant that way, but I think that would be a rather gross and extreme overreaction. By all means, temp or permaban me and EB if you think that's the thing to do, but I don't think that other people should be deprived of a venue for discussing an interesting and pertinent thread simply because two people are arguing. Baby / bath water, etc, or nuking the city to kill one man, like.
 
Last edited:
Again, nobody is disputing the fact that different batches from different sources will vary in levels of purity. My issue is whether this will affect the qualitative effects rather than just the quantitative ones. I've yet to hear any evidence or deductive argument from the yes camp which gives the slightest inkling that this might be the case.

I also argue whether all these brand names (Swiss bliss - that's a new one to the party), have any meaning outside of a small circle clustered round a specific source. IE chemist decides to call her product 'pink fluff'. This gets passed to point A who chooses to call it 'Czech Needlepoint' for marketing puposes. Then point B calls it Swiss Bliss. Note how all the apparent sources are countries which already are associated with psychedelic lore. You never hear about acid coming from Germany or South Africa but Switzerland (home of Hoffman), Czech Republic (communist LSD trials) and Amsterdam (drug Mecca) are all common.

Basically what I'm trying to say is that LSD is LSD. Of course there are people who REALLY don't want to believe that. Personally, I'm very interested in the reason why.
 
Last edited:
Let's face it, this thread can go on for ever without ever coming to any kind of conclusion. Just assumption after assumption after assumption.

in my mind there is no doubt, that non of the impurities that might exist in LSD are psychoactive in the amounts posible, meaning "dirty (impure) acid" doesn't exist. Or rather, it exists, but it's not the cause of any bodyload or discomfort felt during the trip.

personally I have a hard time with accepting the "setting and setting" theory though, it's part of the story for sure. But honestly I don't see any hard scientific evidence that this is the one and only answer to why people repeatedly experience different effects from different batches/crystals of LSD.

I know, occam's razor (states that among competing hypotheses, the hypothesis with the fewest assumptions should be selected. In other words, the simplest explanation is usually the correct one) is not evidence in itself. Even that scientific philosophy could be disputed.

We don't even fully understand why LSD has the effects it does, 5HT2A agonist? sure, but it's much more complex than that. how can we sit here in front our PC's and think we can solve one of life's great mysteries? This thread needs more humility towards the topic, and less smart ass know-it-all.

And by the way, how much LSD do you guy's think is really analysed, besides from the random Erhlich? I'm talking GC/MS by a skilled chemist with an interest in the field. I'm guessing 5 % tops, probably less. So who know's what's really in them blotters?

The Difficulty of Testing
Testing LSD is technically more difficult than the testing of many other common psychoactives. This is because the dose range is very low and because it's a complex molecule. There are simple tests available for identifying the presence of LSD (using thin layer chromatography or immunoassay). But detecting and characterizing impurities or quantifying the exact amount of LSD in a given dose unit is more complicated and requires an experienced analytical chemist with specialized equipment and an interest in the topic.

Unfortunately, because of the combination of DEA restrictions and the difficulty of testing, there may be no labs in the United States currently licensed and qualified to do anonymous testing of LSD.
 
I think it was seiko that said LSD doesn't dimerize. I remember reading some post by a xray crystallographer on shroomery back in the mid 2000's. They took the time to generate some very well thought out responses about LSD and how it does dimerize and some info on lsd polymorphism.
I wish I can contribute t that though some more but, I thought I would throw it out there. If I can copy and paste it with quotes here, it may be helpful to some.
The xray crystallographer says most ergot alkaloids dimerize purple to black. He claims by reduction of the HOMO-LUMO gap, the photons that the dimmer absorbs would be of lower energy than "plain ol' lsd". In turn that means the dimer will appear colored.

He goes on to explain in much more detail and has citations. Can you weigh in on that thought?
 
Well. I have to say, between this post and the PM you sent me, I'm kinda surprised. Not because I would necessarily think you specifically wouldn't apologize but because I wouldn't expect pretty much anybody to apologize, especially after I yelled at you like that. As much as I am loath to allow people to use the 'but it wasn't me, it was the drugs!' excuse, I know from personal experience that if there were ever a time of ever a drug that would be legitimate in that statement, it would be Xanax or another similar benzo. Anyway, xanax aside, that's very big of you, as a person I mean, it takes a certain kind of internal maturity and a willingness to check your ego, so sure, apology accepted. That's very nice of you, and it's only right that I apologize back for yelling at you.

Lets try then to keep things on track and not bicker so much if possible.

Sounds good brother lets keep this on track and keep learning from each other thanks for excepting the apology, I have learned alot from this thread at the end of the day I feel its important, not completely unnatural we all got a little defensive we just love the L world and we all see different things :)

Yup, please stay on topic and keep personal arguments to PM. I don't have time to trim this now and will temporarily close this thread if off-topic flaming continues until I can review it properly.

10/4 My bad Transform, please understand we are all here for the right reason trying to get to the bottom of this "dirty acid" definition, I got a little out of hand and a little off topic, however this thread is very educative and I believe we will move forward from here to create some sort of a conclusion for future viewers, it is a good topic, and with little published on this sacred underground LSD Chemist world there is sooo much opinion VS. fact, however that is the only way it can be right now because of how secret this world really is, but I think if we all pool our knowledge together something good can come of it.

Dont put a temp close on this we will clean it up.

Besides this has been some great conversation minus the bickering.

Nice that someones mentioning Swiss Bliss. Its not from Switzerland but actually Oregon. Its not made from claviceps or ET like other L but is a total synthesis. Thats why it's so clean. We try to keep it in the North West but it sometimes leaks out despite our wishes.

Heyyy buddy is this ChinaCat or just a look a like?! If so happy to have ya here.


Again, nobody is disputing the fact that different batches from different sources will vary in levels of purity. My issue is whether this will affect the qualitative effects rather than just the quantitative ones. I've yet to hear any evidence or deductive argument from the yes camp which gives the slightest inkling that this might be the case.

I also argue whether all these brand names (Swiss bliss - that's a new one to the party), have any meaning outside of a small circle clustered round a specific source. IE chemist decides to call her product 'pink fluff'. This gets passed to point A who chooses to call it 'Czech Needlepoint' for marketing puposes. Then point B calls it Swiss Bliss. Note how all the apparent sources are countries which already are associated with psychedelic lore. You never hear about acid coming from Germany or South Africa but Switzerland (home of Hoffman), Czech Republic (communist LSD trials) and Amsterdam (drug Mecca) are all common.

Basically what I'm trying to say is that LSD is LSD. Of course there are people who REALLY don't want to believe that. Personally, I'm very interested in the reason why.

Now I think we are all on the same page here, over the last year I don't think anyone can answer this question, I am curious on why someone from ADD hasn't jumped in and schooled us all that would help!

Personally I would say brand names don't matter but they do exist, just like weed strains they get changed you are right about that, I would have to say crystal is more defined by purity.

Your right some believe LSD is LSD and some ( like me ) believe there is just a little more to it than that, Whether it is purity, remnants, or just plain Love the chemist gives his method and dynamics.

To each is own, I believe there is scientific explanation to all of this however anyone who really knows the answers are probably never going to come to BL considering it is sacred.

We can only speculate until some solid proof comes through.

@Fagott- "Let's face it, this thread can go on for ever without ever coming to any kind of conclusion. Just assumption after assumption after assumption."

Lets hope it can come to a conclusion I believe it can
 
I think it was seiko that said LSD doesn't dimerize. I remember reading some post by a xray crystallographer on shroomery back in the mid 2000's. They took the time to generate some very well thought out responses about LSD and how it does dimerize and some info on lsd polymorphism.
I wish I can contribute t that though some more but, I thought I would throw it out there. If I can copy and paste it with quotes here, it may be helpful to some.
The xray crystallographer says most ergot alkaloids dimerize purple to black. He claims by reduction of the HOMO-LUMO gap, the photons that the dimmer absorbs would be of lower energy than "plain ol' lsd". In turn that means the dimer will appear colored.

He goes on to explain in much more detail and has citations. Can you weigh in on that thought?

this post?
there's no citation as to the dimerization of ergot alkaloids. the Can. J. Spect paper is on crystal polymorphs (again... I don't think you care if your LSD is cubic, monoclinic, or rhombohedral).

also...

I mean, honestly, just think about this: you do two syntheses. One gives beautiful crystals. One gives black precipitate. They could both be 95% pure. Are you really going to tell me that you would not be biased to believe that something was wrong with the black ppt? And you honestly think that upon ingesting them, your subjective experience would be in no way affected by that bias? Even though you're under the influence of the most potent hallucinogenic drug known to man?

hmmmm. count me still firmly in the "LSD is prone to suggestion effects" camp.
 
I think it was seiko that said LSD doesn't dimerize. I remember reading some post by a xray crystallographer on shroomery back in the mid 2000's. They took the time to generate some very well thought out responses about LSD and how it does dimerize and some info on lsd polymorphism.
I wish I can contribute t that though some more but, I thought I would throw it out there. If I can copy and paste it with quotes here, it may be helpful to some.
The xray crystallographer says most ergot alkaloids dimerize purple to black. He claims by reduction of the HOMO-LUMO gap, the photons that the dimmer absorbs would be of lower energy than "plain ol' lsd". In turn that means the dimer will appear colored.

He goes on to explain in much more detail and has citations. Can you weigh in on that thought?


Your thinking of chemiker's posts... he was one of the best people on the nexus/shroomery. Yes I can back this up, i'll try and find this post. That's when he was saying you could have pink crystals that look pretty normal and cubic, yet it was the best LSD he'd ever assayed in the lab. Then you could have white needley crystals, and they could be 70%.

The names for crystals don't neccesarily always match the color the xtal actually is.. more just like a super best, best, pretty good, good, okay, bad.

I spoke more with my friend whose an O chem grad.. he was saying that the impurities (a la the 51mcg of impurities in champagne, hunab kus) could effect the way that you metabolize the LSD or other particles or other things throughout your day not reltaed to the dose. It might inhibit, or increase certain enzymes in your body that then can create problems (a la if one of your p450 (example) was inhibited, your body wouldn't be able to metabolize x, so stomach muscle tension is the result). These particles aren't attached to the L molecule or related to it, but leftover from the synthesis (or precursors being not totally pure) after it wasn't washed properly or never washed at all, or just messed up during the synthesis.
 

this post?
there's no citation as to the dimerization of ergot alkaloids. the Can. J. Spect paper is on crystal polymorphs (again... I don't think you care if your LSD is cubic, monoclinic, or rhombohedral).

Seiko- This is right in that link you just posted " In the case of LSD, many ergot alkaloids are known to dimerize, I think at the two position. " What do you mean by citation ?

I'm curious is one dissolved this purple / black crystal could it make the liquid solution that color?

You should have posted that link at the beginning of this thread!! That clears up a shizzz load we have been back and fourth about
 
Top