differences in private/ public business

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CuriousCub

CuriousCub

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first, i don't know if this belongs here or in Second Opin. The guidelines here don't mention that questions of non-drug nature are not allowed.

i am having trouble with a cafe business (civil legal action is being processed)and the management told me that "as a private business we can treat people however we want." From what i understand, that is civilly illegal, and that isn't the correct defininition of what a private business is. From what i know, Private means privately owned rather than publicly, meaning they aren't funded by public assistance means. if they are paying taxes, etc, they have to abide by the law, like any public business (library, school...or are those even considered businesses?) would. If they were completely private, they wouldn't be legitimate or recognized legally. They wouldn't have to answer to the law either. answer as in getting examined by health codes, etc.
So is my understanding correct?
 
What exactly is the situation? You made yourself completely vague.
 
the situation doesn't matter and is not the point of this question. what i want to know has already been described. this information can be applied to any situation therein.
 
Well it really depends on what you were talking about. For instance, they couldn't steal your money, that is illegal in any case. But I believe the Supreme court did uphold the right of the Boyscouts (a private organization [not sure if that is equivalent to a private business]) to ban gays from their ranks.
 
Perhaps you are confusing the term "private business" with the concept of a "private organization".

Additionally a private business is distinguished from a publicly held business by the SEC in relation to stock offerings. IE, a company that offers ownership in the form of stock and the stock is publicly traded is a "public business".

The statement, "As a private business, we can treat people however we want" is incorrect. EG, if you are an employee there, you have rights set forth by the labor Dept., OSHA, etc.

As a patron, they can refuse the right to serve you if you are intoxicated, not dressed properly, etc.
 
I am probably one of the few people who believe that private companies should have the right to discriminate based on whatever they please under the condition that they make such discrimination known to their customers. It will teach people to use their power to boycott to drive places out of business. I can garauntee you that a sign that said "no niggers" would be soon covered by a sign that said "going out of business" and if not, at least we know where all the racist bastards hang out.
 
CuriousCub said:
the situation doesn't matter and is not the point of this question. what i want to know has already been described. this information can be applied to any situation therein.
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I think we need to know a bit more about the situation before anyone can give out any sort of relevant advice.

What kind of trouble are you having with the cafe? Is it an employment matter?
 
no, im only asking what exactly is the difference between private and public--THAT'S IT. it's basic information for my understanding on how businesses can operate. i don't know why you'd need more information because this isnt about my situation.
 
PottedMeat said:
Perhaps you are confusing the term "private business" with the concept of a "private organization".

Additionally a private business is distinguished from a publicly held business by the SEC in relation to stock offerings. IE, a company that offers ownership in the form of stock and the stock is publicly traded is a "public business".

The statement, "As a private business, we can treat people however we want" is incorrect. EG, if you are an employee there, you have rights set forth by the labor Dept., OSHA, etc.

As a patron, they can refuse the right to serve you if you are intoxicated, not dressed properly, etc.
Click to expand...

that's exactly what i thought --how the business is funded determines if it is private or public.

this biz pays taxes, is licensed,etc, but is not publicly traded or funded by public assistance. So it is not an organization. What determines the differences between a public and private organzation, btw?

as a patron, if they don't have a sign that states 'we have the right to refuse...' i understand that they cannot exercise that option. Also, if they don't explain what basis they refuse service upon, such as improper dress, they can't exercise that option either. If they did these things without giving fair warning by displaying the warning for all to see, that is discrimination. Am i right?

As far as being intoxicated, isn't illegal to be publicly intoxicated anyways, regardless of where you are? If the biz didn't refuse service to you while you're in that state, liability of whatever that intoxicated person happens to do--like if they harass or violently attack another patron or break stuff--is held accountable by your biz?
 
CuriousCub said:
no, im only asking what exactly is the difference between private and public--THAT'S IT. it's basic information for my understanding on how businesses can operate. i don't know why you'd need more information because this isnt about my situation.
Click to expand...

Originally posted by CuriousCub
i am having trouble with a cafe business (civil legal action is being processed)and the management told me that "as a private business we can treat people however we want."


I'm afraid I still don't understand.
 
mari, i don't understand why you would be confused --PottedMeat knows what im talking about.
if the question regarded the procedures of the trouble i had, i would've already elaborated on that. It isn't necessary to explain the trouble, i just want an explanation of the differences in how private verse public businesses can operate.

when i mentioned:
""as a private business we can treat people however we want."
i wanted to know if this is actually legal that they can do this. from what i understand, as explained above, it isn't.
 
You're not saying in what context.. as a customer, as an employee, as a shareholder, as a manager and for for what conduct... discrimination, hiring, firing, serving, selling.

A black and white answer is not possible with the limited information you've given. You could have solved this whole thread in the beginning if you had simple given an example of what you were trying to determine is legal.

As it is, you're STILL confused, and so are we!


X
 
WTF? i already said pottedmeat knows what im talking about if you are confused. look what you just told mari. why are you acting like you don't understand now? it doesn't matter if im a customer, a deliveryman, or an employee.
 
^I'm not going to get into a debate over it but in order to effectively answer your question I feel I need more information.

You have made two completely contradictory statements- your original post in which you stated that you were having trouble with a business and a subsequent post in which you said you don't know why we need more information because this isn't your situation.

So, which is it?
 
mari, i dont know how you are seeing my introductory statement as the point of this thread. My question,the purpose of this thread, was said in ONE STATEMENT:
"So is my understanding correct?"
My question was wondering if my UNDERSTANDING of the differences of business types was correct. As i said before, potted knows what im talking about. That's why the topic is 'differences in private/ public business.'

the trouble with the biz is NOT the point of the question, it was just an introduction as to why im asking this type of question. if it was the core of the question i'd obviously give more detail on it! . I thought by giving an introduction, people would be more familiar with why im asking this, since it is coming from a customer/consumer's point of view.

to reiterate:
" the management told me that "as a private business we can treat people however we want." From what i understand, that is civilly illegal--TO JUST TREAT PEOPLE HOWEVER THEY CHOOSE TO, I.E IN SEXIST OR RACIST MANNERS, and that isn't the correct defininition of what a private business is. THE QUESTION IS ABOUT WHAT THE CORRECT DEFINITION IS. From what i know, Private means privately owned rather than publicly, meaning they aren't funded by public assistance means. if they are paying taxes, etc, they have to abide by the law, like any public business (library, school...or are those even considered businesses?) would. If they were completely private, they wouldn't be legitimate or recognized legally. They wouldn't have to answer to the law either. answer as in getting examined by health codes, etc.
So is my understanding correct?"
 
There's no law against treating people poorly unless it violates hate crime or sexual harassment laws.


X
 
CuriousCub said:
that's exactly what i thought --how the business is funded determines if it is private or public.

this biz pays taxes, is licensed,etc, but is not publicly traded or funded by public assistance. So it is not an organization. What determines the differences between a public and private organzation, btw?

as a patron, if they don't have a sign that states 'we have the right to refuse...' i understand that they cannot exercise that option. Also, if they don't explain what basis they refuse service upon, such as improper dress, they can't exercise that option either. If they did these things without giving fair warning by displaying the warning for all to see, that is discrimination. Am i right?
Click to expand...

Look -- First of all, whether or not they are privately owned or publicly traded is irrelevant to your question. The issue is whether they are a "public accommodation" for the purposes of the various federal and state laws that govern such establishments. If they are a cafe or restaurant type place that is open to the public, then the answer is YES.

Now, public accommodations are NOT free to treat their customers any way they want. For example, under federal statutes like the Civil Rights Act of 1964, Title II, 42 U.S.C. 2000a et seq., such establishments may NOT refuse to serve customers on the basis of "race, color, religion, or national origin."

Even if you aren't being discriminated against on the basis of one of those factors, there are similar state laws that prohibit discrimination on the basis of other factors. For example, the Minnesota Human Rights Act forbids denying access to persons on the basis of race, color, creed, religion, disability, national origin, sexual orientation, or sex.

Now, you haven't told us what state you're in or why they are denying access to you, so I can't tell you whether or not this is illegal.
 
One more thing -- Note that a small number of states, like New Jersey, may also have a common law right of "reasonable access", which basically means that a public accommodations establishment must have a reasonable reason to legally deny you access (e.g. you are disrupting business). See Uston v. Restorts International Hotel, Inc., 445 A.2d 370 (N.J. 1982).
 
It's WA, and they aren't denying access to me. They said they could, and the criteria on how they could is what i wanted to check on.
 
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