Since yesterday I take in the morning a tablet of Pristiq 100mg (desvenlafaxine), a SNRI antidepressant. The doctor which recipes me Pristiq said me than desvenlafaxine boost serotonin and norepinephrine but too dopamine in a lower way but I searched in the net and all info about desvenlafaxine only says that affect to serotonin and norepinephrine but in no place say that dopamine is affected by this antidepressant. Can something help me?
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BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic
Desvenlafaxine
- Thread starter Rafayte
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I'm pretty sure venlafaxine only significantly affects the serotonin and NE transporters. I don't know much about the demethylated form, but I'd imagine it would be similar.
Why does this specific detail particularly matter to you? Have you had bad experiences with SSRIs/NRIs (or conversely, bad reactions to DRIs like Ritalin) in the past?
EDIT: Admins, please fix the post submission system on your mobile site. For the past 4+ weeks a large number of common punctuation symbols have been showing up in my forum posts as unknown characters when posting through the mobile site.
Why does this specific detail particularly matter to you? Have you had bad experiences with SSRIs/NRIs (or conversely, bad reactions to DRIs like Ritalin) in the past?
EDIT: Admins, please fix the post submission system on your mobile site. For the past 4+ weeks a large number of common punctuation symbols have been showing up in my forum posts as unknown characters when posting through the mobile site.
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I want to know it because I started to take this pharm yesterday and I want to know how it works and it's possible effect in my mind
falsifiedhypothesi
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No one can tell you how it will effect your mind specifically but we can give you facts about the drug. If you want to know about the drug look into the research and studies on the drug.
This is a kind of thing where you are probably going to get the detailed answers you want only through personal research.
This is a kind of thing where you are probably going to get the detailed answers you want only through personal research.
Okay. That's going to be extremely subjective, so to get a better idea of what effect it might have on you, what experiences have you had in the past with other reuptake inhibitors; SSRIs (e.g. Prozac or Celexa), SNRIs (e.g. Effexor or Cymblata), NRIs (e.g. Strattera or reboxetine) and/or NDRIs (e.g. Ritalin or Wellbutrin)? Or even with cocaine, which is a pretty common SNDRI? What sort of effect are you looking for from an antidepressant, and how does it compare to those examples (or at least the ones you've tried)?
My guess is that desvenlafaxine is going to feel damn close to Effexor, assuming the difference is noticeable at all. Have you ever taken that in the past, or taken a combination of an SSRI and NRI (such as Prozac + Edronax, which was/perhaps still is not uncommon in several European countries)?
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zephyr
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This drug is effexor, it just uses less of it to get the same effect and is therefore more cost effective to produce. Im not sure exactly as I have just come across it briefly but a 50mg dose is apparently the starting dose not 150mg like effexor.
Its not any better than effexor in clinical trials and has the same side effects but also diarrhea.
It was spruiked as a possible alternative for xanax originally but thats total bullshit, it does nothing for anxiety.
Its also difficult to get off like effexor but less tapering time.
Very good with long term severe depression but the lack of emotional highs is a drawback but better than suicide.
Its not any better than effexor in clinical trials and has the same side effects but also diarrhea.
It was spruiked as a possible alternative for xanax originally but thats total bullshit, it does nothing for anxiety.
Its also difficult to get off like effexor but less tapering time.
Very good with long term severe depression but the lack of emotional highs is a drawback but better than suicide.
Seriously? A fucking noradrenergic for anxiety? It would probably make it worse if anything.
zephyr
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Yeah my ex was on 2 logs of xanax a day for over a decade and had general anxiety disorder and the quack wanted him to go onto pristiq which is this desvenlafaxine as he said it was a viable alternative. Im on effexor and it was recommended for its anti anxiety properties. Neither drug has ever been proven to work whatsoever on anxiety directly and wont do shit unless anxiety is a knock on effect of existing depression (it can be related).
Anxiety without depression is not treatable by this drug. Do not use it for anything but depression and depression related mental health issues as its not going to work.
Anxiety without depression is not treatable by this drug. Do not use it for anything but depression and depression related mental health issues as its not going to work.
Honestly, I'd add that anxiety even *with* depression is not treatable with Effexor. If anxiety is a major part of your depression then you're probably much better off with a more calming antidepressant (like sertraline or even fluoxetine), not something that raises levels of (nor)adrenaline.
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...does it matter?
This is a textbook case of people using super reductive logic to validate or invalidate their medication. If it works, it works. I can honestly state that if you stop researching your meds, you will find ones that work for you sooner and more fully.
Now, I will somewhat answer.
Both dopamine (D) and norepinephrine (NE) are catecholamines (a structural similarity). D is enzymatically converted to NE. In addition, at high concentrations of a NRI (norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor), it begins to bond to DAT, becoming a dopamine reuptake inhibitor. Sometimes, it works the other way around, too. They are very structurally similar. Hence, this effect when space gets tight.
Now, the evidence clearly reveals that serotonin is the most salient neurotransmitter when speaking of depression. Not dopamine. High dopamine levels in the pleasure center of the brain is not anti-depressant activity, it is recreational substance activity, and it is bound to produce a low of the same magnitude as the high. It is much more primitive and much less effective, summarily, than serotonin, at treating depression. Dopamingergic stimulants work long-term for narcolepsy and ADHD. For mood, they're a clever trap, a snowball rolling down the slippery slope to addiction.
That said, bupropion is an NDRI, with mild dopaminergic effects that are not quite understood, and is prescribed for depression. Modafinil, a weak DRI, is sometimes given as an adjunct.
This is a textbook case of people using super reductive logic to validate or invalidate their medication. If it works, it works. I can honestly state that if you stop researching your meds, you will find ones that work for you sooner and more fully.
Now, I will somewhat answer.
Both dopamine (D) and norepinephrine (NE) are catecholamines (a structural similarity). D is enzymatically converted to NE. In addition, at high concentrations of a NRI (norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor), it begins to bond to DAT, becoming a dopamine reuptake inhibitor. Sometimes, it works the other way around, too. They are very structurally similar. Hence, this effect when space gets tight.
Now, the evidence clearly reveals that serotonin is the most salient neurotransmitter when speaking of depression. Not dopamine. High dopamine levels in the pleasure center of the brain is not anti-depressant activity, it is recreational substance activity, and it is bound to produce a low of the same magnitude as the high. It is much more primitive and much less effective, summarily, than serotonin, at treating depression. Dopamingergic stimulants work long-term for narcolepsy and ADHD. For mood, they're a clever trap, a snowball rolling down the slippery slope to addiction.
That said, bupropion is an NDRI, with mild dopaminergic effects that are not quite understood, and is prescribed for depression. Modafinil, a weak DRI, is sometimes given as an adjunct.
zephyr
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^ Was that directed at me? If so then yes it matters to me hence posting. Having this drug spruiked as a viable alternative to Xanax to an ex and to me as a fancy upgrade of Effexor, I call bullshit on both and maybe there are people who just follow doctors advice and end up in a worse state.
We aren't doctors and just a post on the internet so if a search brings up food for thought, even to keep regular check ups and switch sooner than later if it's not working then that's good enough.
The chemistry and molecular pathways are basic and easily understood if there's background knowledge and gobbgobbledy if not much.
We aren't doctors and just a post on the internet so if a search brings up food for thought, even to keep regular check ups and switch sooner than later if it's not working then that's good enough.
The chemistry and molecular pathways are basic and easily understood if there's background knowledge and gobbgobbledy if not much.
@OP
I also wouldn't worry too much about it interacting with the Ritalin you take - plenty of people take antidepressants and Ritalin together without any issues. I'm not sure why a doctor would opt for Effexor/desvenlafaxine in this case over a more conventional SSRI, but it shouldn't matter much if at all.
I also wouldn't worry too much about it interacting with the Ritalin you take - plenty of people take antidepressants and Ritalin together without any issues. I'm not sure why a doctor would opt for Effexor/desvenlafaxine in this case over a more conventional SSRI, but it shouldn't matter much if at all.
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To be fair, the same can be said of several serotonin releasing agents. MDMA is the obvious example, but I've read accounts of even compounds with negligible effects on dopamine (e.g. MDAI) causing the same sort of empathogenic/content/loved-up feeling, followed by an utterly miserable crash several hours after.
Sadly, I don't think modelling depression is as simple as singling out one neurotransmitter (or at least not one monoamine).
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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4008300/
But I assure you it is not clinically significant, from my experience psychiatrists don't know nearly as much as they should about pharmacology, and will repeat anything the pharma reps tell them or whatever they think their patients want to hear(after all they know how important expectations are in whether a new psy med will be effective). The serotonin:norepinephrine ratio of desvenlafaxine is already 10:1, the dopamine ratio would be MUCH smaller and would only have any significance at unsafe dosage levels.
If you dug, you could probably find the affinities somewhere and throw them in your psy docs face, but I wouldn't recommend this unless you could do it extremely tactfully while requesting a change of medication, but give the desvenlafaxine a chance, if it doesn't work ask for something else, no need to contradict and possibly antagonize your doc.
Wrong....wrong, wrong, wrong. Dopamine on its own does NOTHING recreationally, neither dopamine agonists nor pure DARIs. And a plethora of dopamine agonists have been shown to have strong anti-depressant action, and it is well known that some DARI activity can enhance the anti-depressant effects seen with SNRI's hence the pursuit of triple reuptake inhibitors for AD and the efficacy of MAOIs which raise dopamine levels.
This view is probably also why both the pharma industry and psy docs seem to have an aversion to any treatment which involves dopamine, why you don't see dopamine agonists being used for AD with any regularity despite all the evidence showing their strong efficacy...dopamine has become a dirty word to them that they automatically associate with drugs of abuse which is totally wrong.
Sadly this is how most psychiatrists think, and it leads to them having a poor understanding of the nuances of each drug they are prescribing and how those differences effect each patient individually, they end up taking a homogenous approach to each patient with a similar diagnosis and basically go down whatever list(not literal) they have formulated until they find a med that works. In the meantime their patients suffer for months on end waiting to get the right med, while if they actually understood the differences of each medication and how those differences fit in with the specific symptoms and diagnosis of each patient they could come to the correct conclusion much faster.
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I never have take an NRI but I have taken venlafaxine, never more than one antidepressant at time and I too have taken bupropion, escitalopram and praoxetine.
I hope an time sustained antidepressant effect which leads me able to reduce Ritalin and too an anxiolytic effect which leads me able to kick off diazepam and sulpiride and pregabalin. But I know antidepressant effects are no suddenly such as Ritalin or Valium but an effect that lasts one or two months and is few noticeable. I only hope a better mood and anxiety relief
I expect that desvenlafaxine is going to be very similar to venlafaxine. How was your experience with that?
For that matter, what was your experience with each of those other antidepressants like? What were the positives and negative you can remember from each (venlafaxine included)?
Okay...so it roughly sounds like you're using Ritalin and Valium (as well as the other sedative-hypnotics you mentioned) to try to stabilize your mood. Can you just go into a little more detail about the exact benefits you're getting from each of those?
When you say "I know antidepressant effects are no suddenly such as Ritalin or Valium", it sounds as though you're using them both to help with your depression.
On the other hand, saying you want to "reduce Ritalin and too an anxiolytic effect which leaves me able to kick off diazepam" makes me wonder if you might be using Valium & co mainly to offset anxiety caused by the Ritalin, which you're using for your depression (e.g. anhedonia, apathy, etc). Which did you start taking first, and what was your reason (i.e. main symptom) for starting each of those?
These two classes of meds have approximately opposite effects, and are often combined by users in an attempt to cancel out each other's side effects. This usually ends up gradually turning into a downward spiral, where you're essentially trying to pull of an increasingly tight balancing act between the two as your tolerance rises and withdrawal problems start to show up (sometimes within a couple hours, for high doses of benzos). IMHO it's an important thing to consider when thinking about what might help you in future.
In any case... I can't sincerely imagine that Ritalin + Valium would be particularly effective as a mood stabiliser, even in the short-medium term (and I don't remember reading any experiences by people claiming that it was). In terms of depression alone, I understand very much how Valium can feel like a very quick-acting and effective antidepressant (and, according to a few people, even a sustainable one - although sadly that wasn't the case for me, nor seemingly for the majority of people). The Ritalin...not so much - I personally react very badly to it, so I can't speak from experience, but I suspect (going by many of the reports I've read) that it'd be more likely to just risk turning straight depression/MDD into something closer to cyclothymia or bipolar 2.
What have you been diagnosed with? Does it include a mood disorder, and if so what type?
I think it's important to understand what exactly is pushing you to try stabilising your mood with the meds you listed, especially given that you don't seem to be prescribed a mood stabiliser (I suppose supiride could technically count as one, but to my understanding it's still more of a straight sedative than a proper mood stabiliser). Aside from depression, do you get episodes of mania, restlessness, severe anxiety (i.e. panic attacks and persistent ruminations, usually accompanied by insomnia), or any combination of those? Do they alternate, or occur at the same time? Do you every have periods (even if it's just hours or minutes) during which you don't have any of those symptoms?
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