Designer opioids?

[danceofdays]

Hi, sorry if this breaks the no-synthesis-discussion rules but I don't think it does.

There seems to be an influx of designer stimulants and cannabinoids hitting the market... what are the possibilities for designer opioids? Could you theoretically use acetic anhydride to acetylate opioids like oxycodone or hydrocodone and create something unscheduled and more euphoric? What structural properties imply "abuse potential" aka euphoric effects when it comes to opioids, and what are some potential new modifications that we might hypothetically see on the RC circuit?

Thanks

 

[I NUK3D U]

In answer to your scheduling question, I imagine any new synthetic opioid would be banned quicker that you can blink, regardless of it's actual effect (or abuse potential). Certainly in the UK, whilst they were slow onto the new stims, there is still a huge focus on opioids, and no government (pressured by the media) could get away with ignoring it for more than a second.

 

[Phener]

This question always comes up on numerous chat boards.

Anyone who is that way inclined, I.e ethically ok with the idea of selling potent opioids to the masses are not going to sell them via nice friendly "Research Chemical Websites" which give away their location and postal address.

They will cut heroin and sell them as "china white" or whatever etc, sell them via the traditional channels and be content in their own minds that they (the synthers) wont get busted as they have made what is a legal chem.

 

[allium]

One famous asian source offered O-desmethyltramadol for a while.

 

[daddysgone]

Hi, sorry if this breaks the no-synthesis-discussion rules but I don't think it does.

There seems to be an influx of designer stimulants and cannabinoids hitting the market... what are the possibilities for designer opioids? Could you theoretically use acetic anhydride to acetylate opioids like oxycodone or hydrocodone and create something unscheduled and more euphoric? What structural properties imply "abuse potential" aka euphoric effects when it comes to opioids, and what are some potential new modifications that we might hypothetically see on the RC circuit?

Thanks

Acetylating opioids like oxycodone or hydrocodone would simply result in the creation of an opioid that is just as illegal as their precursors due to the analog act (in the US anyway).-DG

 

[MattPsy]

I would recommend not for anyone to go spilling the beans unnecessarily.

 

[flacky]

Acetylation would lead to a lot of arrests because a small but definite portion of the illegal parent chemical would surely be present as an impurity.

That being said, I would probably kill to try something like diacetylhydromorphone.

 

[naginnudej]

This question always comes up on numerous chat boards.

Anyone who is that way inclined, I.e ethically ok with the idea of selling potent opioids to the masses are not going to sell them via nice friendly "Research Chemical Websites" which give away their location and postal address.

They will cut heroin and sell them as "china white" or whatever etc, sell them via the traditional channels and be content in their own minds that they (the synthers) wont get busted as they have made what is a legal chem.

...and the ex-meph mafia is a morally stable organization? 8)


:O

 

[mad_scientist]

Acetylated derivatives of hydromorphone and oxycodone have been illegal since 1930, they were the first RCs ever banned 8)

There are literally dozens of potent synthetic opioids, some of them are quite good, and there is something of an unofficial moratorium on discussing them on public forums due to the trouble this will inevitably bring. I suggest you go do some research in the actual scientific literature.

 

[negrogesic]

Yes the 0-desmethyltramadol was good while it lasted. I was a big of hog and most of the stock of that well known asian supplier that was earlier alluded to, and it was very good stuff (much unlike tramadol). Its probably better off that he stopped selling it, which he admitted was partly because of pyschonerds complaining to him about selling an addictive substance, but was mainly because the chinese suppliers were getting some unwanted attention from the authorities so they put the brakes on it.


Yet, there are plenty of retailers selling designer depressants, most famously right now phenazepam, but also other depressants like phenprobamate, chlorobutanol and others. While less dangerous in the sense that fatal OD's are less likely than with a potent RC opioid, these depressants are addictive have withdrawal syndromes FAR worse than any opioid of even the greatest potency/addictiveness.

There was that chinese formula bullshit which was marketed as opioid detox/replacement therapy, an while it once contained some methadone, it likely contains nothing desirable.

There are countless opioids that are unscheduled, but i doubt we will see them on the RC scene. If you work at it hard enough you might be able to coerce an asian company to supply you with an opioid, but these of fraud and arrest is high.

Some opioids arent too complex to synthesize for someone who has a moderate understanding of chemistry, but still requires the necessary glassware and precursors. But unless you find a novel opioid that unscheduled and still relatively simple to make, you are facing serious jailtime if you get caught. Still, im not aware of any opioid that is simple to make as methamphetamine (perhaps im wrong, maybe there is one)....

 

[TheAzo]

Negrogesic: AFAIK, most of these designer depressants are coming from one wonderful (yet pricey) man in canada. Phenazepam is everywhere, but the others.... not so much.

There is almost no drug that is easier to make than methamphetamine. TBH the only one i can think of is chlorbutanol.... and that's actually a harder synth (2 steps vs 1, and need for rigorous cooling and distillation to purify the chloroform) , but easier in practice because none of the precursors are watched at all (also, afaik, it's a piss poor drug).




I think the reason GABAergics are "okay" and opiates are not is that people seem to enjoy opiates far more, and for that reason, more people get addicted to them. Plus, they're almost all better IV'ed, while benzos have high oral/sublingual BA and don't produce a rush like opiates do when injected (correct me if i'm wrong), so they don't tend to lead to IV drug use (which provokes public panic far more than people popping pills or sniffing powders). My impression reading these forums is that 90% of people enjoy opiates, and far fewer enjoy benzos et al.

Personally, i havn't been able to get pleasant effects off any opiates...... benzos on the other hand, i have to be very careful with....

 

[Moral Decay]

there was a piperazine i read about with opiate effects...I cant recall which one right now, I have seen mention of legal alternatives to pain killers, figured they were opiate like pipes or kratom extracts. I had wondered if those pure Mitragynine extracts had any value as a recreational opiate or taper tool.

 

[danceofdays]

Thanks for the replies. I guess since I'm purely a recreational every-once-in-a-while opiate user, I never really even considered how something like that would be quite controversial. I also am a Canadian, so I wasn't really thinking about the analog rule... luckily we don't have one of those up here

 

[wungchow]

Methopholine and/or its derivatives might be promising since they are not ultra-potent like the fent analogues (so less chance of people accidentally offing themselves with a tiny amount of powder)

 

[dread]

benzos have high oral/sublingual BA and don't produce a rush like opiates do when injected (correct me if i'm wrong)

You're wrong... IV midazolam definitely gives a rush, and thus - in my country - it has been one of the most popular recretionally-abused benzos among IV users for the last decade or two. It's still very popular, but it's been getting gradually harder and harder to get - doctors are pressured into not prescribing it, and even if they do they can only prescribe 10 or 20 pills at a time.

Sorry for kinda OT, just felt like picking that up...

 

[Slapdragonx]

A nice moderate potency Lefetamine analog would be great.

 

[atara]

Anyone who is that way inclined, I.e ethically ok with the idea of selling potent opioids to the masses are not going to sell them via nice friendly "Research Chemical Websites" which give away their location and postal address.

If they'll sell 4-MMA, they'll sell opiates too.

Also, OP, BDPC. Thousands of times the potency of morphine? Check. Novel chemical structure? Check. Doses potentially in the 10 ug range? Check.

There is almost no drug that is easier to make than methamphetamine

Methcathinone. In fairness it's just a watered down version of meth. Also mushrooms, because they are ludicrously easy to grow.

 

[negrogesic]

If they'll sell 4-MMA, they'll sell opiates too.

Also, OP, BDPC. Thousands of times the potency of morphine? Check. Novel chemical structure? Check. Doses potentially in the 10 ug range? Check.



Methcathinone. In fairness it's just a watered down version of meth. Also mushrooms, because they are ludicrously easy to grow.

Yes we've already talked about bromadol in other threads of this nature. I don't see it or anything like it reaching the RC market.

With enough cash you could convince some asian lab to do a custom synth of some fentanyl analog, but that isnt exactly an RC.......

 

[flacky]

^ And fentanyl analogues have a sweeping status as CII chemicals.

Also, why would the RC companies supply an opiate that's active in microgram quantities? That would be overdose/liability hell. Maybe if it was active in the tens to hundreds of milligram range then it would make sense.

 

[fjjf]

What the fuck is wrong with vendors who not sell opioids? Ethics my ass. It the money that matters.

Is there any rc opioid vendors now, haven't found none and I think am quite good doing searching. Can you estimate number of rc opioid vendor, or are they all hiding in secret places and private/refer only?