Dependence liabilities of various GABAergic drugs

[AA357]

Hi,

I posted a similar thread in Other Drugs (Just how addictive is Soma compared to alcohol?) the other day.

Lately I have been contemplating the dependence liabilities of different GABA-agonists. All of them are capable of causing physical dependence but appear to vary in liability and severity/duration of symptoms.
It seems to me that the old-school (alcohol/GHB-like) GABAergics - though they possess higher abuse and OD potential - have a lower dependence liability than benzodiazepines.

Alcohol is widely considered to be less physically addictive than benzos. I drink 1-2 cans of beer every evening and even though I feel a buzz off it every time, I never experience withdrawal symptoms if I forget to replenish my fridge. I think the majority of people who drink every day don't have an alcohol dependence.

Similarly, GHB doesn't appear to cause physical dependence in daily users who don't redose often or take excessive amounts. I'm starting to think that the same might be true for Soma as well.

What is it about benzos that make them so addictive? I have been taking Valium recreationally for 3 years (15-20mg once or twice a week). I limit my consumption because I am shit scared of dependence. Looking at the statistical and anecdotal evidence it sounds like dependence is inevitable if you take it daily. Xanax sounds even worse.

How addictive were ludes by comparison?

Thanks.

 

[sekio]

I guess it depends what dose and frequency and what effects. I've heard of, for instance, daily low-dose clonazepam as an anticonvulsant remaining effective for quite a while, longer than the 2-weeks recommendation. But that wasn't a case where it was "take as needed for anxiety".

The problems for all GABA-A drugs get exacerbated in high doses. Chronic alcoholism is not something you can put down lightly, nor is chronic BZD usage, or chronic barbiturate usage. But on the other hand there's people who take Fiorinal or phenobarbital with reasonable frequency and those too remain effective.

 

[Epsilon Alpha]

If a drug is selective for various subunits of the GABA-A receptor such as the gamma2 subunit (nessecary for benzodiazepine binding) it might produce physical dependence faster than other drugs. There are several pathways for increasing activation of the GABA system, though for most recreational drugs GABA-A is the target. GABA-B is another GABA receptor with very complex roles in dependence that is an entirely different type of receptor a G-protein coupled receptor, while GABA-A is an ion channel.

There's a lot of info out there regarding tolerance to GABAnergic drugs, but it depends on what you want to know. We can talk about various mechanisms that drugs have that add to the issue (e.g. many barbituates also block sodium channels thus causing another issue when withdrawn), FDA dependency risk ratings or the other weirder effects some drugs have but thats getting more into epilepsy territory.

 

[Seppi]

I feel the need to point one thing out:
Dependence is not addiction. Addiction is not dependence. The two should not be confused, as they do not always occur together and certain drugs, even common ones like caffeine, are only capable of inducing one of the two states.
The two concepts, as defined, represent opposite modes of reinforcement: dependence is entirely mediated through negative reinforcement (occurs via the associated withdrawal state) and addiction is entirely mediated through positive reinforcement.

 

[atara]

Carisoprodol is not (a typical) GABAergic (also an adenosine reuptake inhibitor). Alcohol withdrawal is, in general, worse than benzodiazepine withdrawal (more likely to kill you in fact). However, extremely high levels of alcohol use are less common than similar levels of benzodiazepine use due to the side-effects of alcohol; many alcoholics become accustomed to brief periods of sobriety, while the same is not true of benzodiazepine addicts. I guess carisoprodol is similar; the AdRI activity means effectively lower GABA activity because you're taking lower doses.

 

[rakketakke]

Lower dependence?

If you use GHB more then twice a day (meaning your two doses for narcoleptics) you're looking at physical addiction in a week.

 

[sekio]

If you use GHB more then twice a day (meaning your two doses for narcoleptics) you're looking at physical addiction in a week.

I think it's different for everyone. GHB has a relatively short half life and dependence is dose-related too. For a few people I know, they managed to get away with 2-3x daily usage for a couple weeks without major issues. But these weren't huge doses.