Delayed dissociation from alcohol

[Biovail]

Hey all,

This is something that's been on my mind lately. On days I wake up after a night of drinking, I seem to notice a sense of dissociation for most of that day. Given that I'm not too hungover, I notice that I'm in a very different mind-state. Here's what I notice:

• Anxiety is less of an issue (it's still there, but I can choose to ignore it for the most part)
• Auditory stimulation is novel and more pleasing (music is more enjoyable)
• Everyday sights look odd, especially nature. It's as if I'm on vacation somewhere else, seeing things for the first time.
• Increase in creativity. I'm able to think about things from a different perspective much more easily
• The common element in all my experiences during this time is that it feels like I'm one step removed from everything. It's as if I'm looking down on myself below, able to observe my own thoughts and alter my behavior

Any idea what could be the cause of this? What neurotransmitters might be involved? I'm aware alcohol is a mild NMDA antagonist. But why would I experience what seems like dissociation after I'm no longer drunk of buzzed?

I find this altered mindstate to be a very good thing. It's refreshing and, if nothing else, points 1 and 4 are very advantageous. It would be good know how to replicate this without getting shitfaced the night before.

Also, I experience something similar when I wake up after being sick with a fever the previous night.

 

[Goddess Mode]

I don't know why this is unfortunately, but would just like to add that I've experienced the same thing. I thought I was just the weird one for liking the next day buzz! These days I don't drink anymore, but it would still be interesting to learn the reason for this effect.

 

[.:Holy::Toast:.]

This could possibly just be a lingering afterglow from a positive experience and not a physiological effect

 

[dopamimetic]

I'd guess that it is more of a psychological than primarily chemical phenomenon too ... never experienced from alcohol though.

But well, this is what I liked most from taking low doses of dissociatives, has some great advantages for everyday life.

 

[Solipsis]

I bet increased creativity is often related to decreased inhibitions, because inhibitions normally to some extent prevent creative / associative conceptual links to be formed. The less inhibition, the more such links are allowed even if they are exceedingly unusual. Creativity with psychedelics like LSD may work slightly different though in a way similar: often people do say that everything is connected and indeed I believe that the 'filtering' system in the brain is being messed with allowing for more free play.

Alcohol does not only numb but rather simplify things: a lot of stimuli are dampened but what is is experienced can seem to carry more emphasis. And of course reward pathways in the brain are triggered so no surprises about the music appreciation i guess.

 

[Black]

i have also experienced some dissociation on the day after alcohol (but also ghb), but i've always found it unpleasant. then again, i don't like dissociatives at all.

 

[rakketakke]

Great post I read by WS once:

Pharmacology

In the past alcohol was believed to be a non-specific pharmacological agent, affecting many neurotransmitter systems in the brain.[4] However, molecular pharmacology studies have shown that alcohol has only a few primary targets. In some systems these effects are facilitatory and in others inhibitory.

Among the neurotransmitter systems with enhanced functions are: GABAA,[5] glycine,[5] serotonin,[6] nicotinic acetylcholine receptors.[7]

Among those that are inhibited are: NMDA,[6] dihydropyridine-sensitive L-type Ca2+ channels[8] and G-protein-activated inwardly rectifying K+ channels.[9]

The result of these direct effects are a wave of further indirect effects involving a variety of other neurotransmitter and neuropeptide systems, leading finally to the behavioural or symptomatic effects of alcohol intoxication.[4]"

What immediately springs to mind here are the GABAA agonism and the NMDA antagonism.

GABAA agonism is the stuff benzos and barbiturates are made of, Valium and Seconal. Because the agonism is a lot more forceful (and lethal in high dose) than with benzo's this effect is closer to a barbiturate than to a benzodiazepine.

NMDA antagonism, uncompetitive channel blocking, is a pure dissociative effect shared by compounds such as Ether, Ketamine and Methoxetamine.

So drinking alcohol in part is not unlike getting high on a (dangerous) cocktail of Ketamine and Seconal.

The barbiturate like effect makes you lose social inhibitions and fears and puts your mind to rest. The dissociative ketamine like effect adds the "spirit of the drink", the dissociative psychedelic effect of reminiscing about life, the inspiration one sometimes gets from a drink and the sometimes strange sensations that can be had.

The barbiturate dulls the spirit of the ketamine considerably and makes it more amnesiac and less "deep", it adds physical dependence to the addictive cocktail. It is, in its own right, anesthetic.

The ketamine counteracts some of the dullness of the barbiturate by providing psychological depth, in high doses it too adds amnesia and to the addictive cocktail it adds psychological dependence features. It by nature is an anesthetic too.

The combination of a barbiturate anesthesia and ketamine anesthesia is very dangerous. This explains that, on the mopment one passes out on alcohol, one is having a medical emergency.

On top of this unfavorable profile, there is a tragic note: Alcohol metabolizes through a molecule that is called Acetaldehyde, the closest relative to formaldehyde. It assures that every single drink drank in your lifetime does some irreversible damage to cells all over your body, and that it is a carcinogen. Not all tissues heal, but the ones that doi have a load bearing capacity amounting to a consumption of about 10-30ml alcohol a day, depending on the individual. The further you go over this, the ever harder the alcohol damage adds up throughout your body, artificially accellerating your aging. This unfortunate metabolic coincidence makes alcohol a toxic drug, one that does harm in any dosage.

So this, basically, is Alcohol broken down to a sedative and a dissociative, to Seconal and Ketamine.

If you like the anxiety ridding of alcohol, quieting effects the most, drugs like valium and seconal hold appeal to you. If you are more partial to the "spirit" of alcohol, its mind expanding effects, dissociatives like ketamine and methoxetamine are more up your street, all these drugs do the one thing unhindred by the other. All of them are very serious drugs with addiction potential if misused.

Whats interesting and eye opening perhaps about all this is that Alcohol, the worlds most prominent drug that gets you intoxicated and the oldest drug made by man, is partially a dissociative psychedelic, but then with a massive amount of a sedative tranquilizer slamming on the brake preventing it from getting too profound.

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My personal take is that it's the Glutamine rebound.