Misc Datura (Moonflower)

[hydr0m0rph]

I am very interested in this plant.

It seems many people who ingest it, have similar visions and experiences.

Have any of you tried it? I would love to hear your experiences.

It should be said that it is quite dangerous. It can kill you. But if it doesn't it will put you into a very strange, dreamlike delirium for up to 20 hours. Not really pleasant either. More like terrifying, crazy, and other-worldly. What I am very interested in, is that in my experience and others' it almost feels as if the spirit of the plant is with you. Sometimes she takes the form of a panther or tiger. I felt i was being chased by a tiger for hours and ended up deep in the woods by a river. completely lost. I then talked to people for hours, including my dead grandfather (who i was with at the time of his death) and the conversations were so deep and real.. i thought i was really talking to him. I also smoked phantom cigarettes thru the whole experience.. only realizing later that i hadnt smoked for years and didnt have any cigs. It was so real.. and this seems to be another thing that many people report. much of the experience is now almost unexplainable. my mouth was so dry.. it must be quite toxic.

If anyone has used this plant please share your experience.

 

[zirbeldude2]

I never did datura because of massive difference in potency of the Material.
I did however quite often combine dxm with diphenhydramine. And diphenydarmine being a delireant gives the same effects.
I also smoked phantom cigarettes and talked to imaginary people. Usual bugs and spiders, the copy of a real cat of a friend followed us outside.
I saw trinity from matrix in leathersuite and sunglasses outside on snowy streets (it was really snowing). And big machines building themselves up behind her at the end of the street.
One time i was angry at a female friend, because we were walking outside and she kept making herself invisible just to piss me óff.

I recommend against delireants because it can get quite dangerous. Even moreso with datura.
And it's imho not really enjoyable. Dxm masks the unpleasant bodyload of dph but i wouldnt do it again.

 

[Mulletisha]

Ive researched it quite a bit, had DPH thrice and datura once. IMO so long as you have it in your head (Well, that is if you even remember taking it. Forgetting that you took a delerient is fucking horrifying-happened to me on DPH.) that you ARE going to see some shit and you are going to get freaked out then it's all in good fun. Throw a couple doobies and a few beers in and you're golden. 2/4 of my del trips were unenjoyable, and I plan on taking more datura, but not DPH since the spiders freak me out too much lol. Not even that afraid of spiders, just DPH invisa-spiders fuck with my head.

 

[SKL]

While the datura trip reports on Erowid are a reliable source of amusing epicaricacy, reading through a few of them a long time ago was more than enough for me to put this drug on my (very short) "never try" list. Stuff is dangerous and delirium isn't most people's idea of a good time.

Harm reduction and good sense would necessitate a few trip sitters able to physically overpower you, and ideally, the availability of drugs to help manage a crisis.

Medical stuff: Physostigmine is a specific antidote but is potentially dangerous (cardiac and respiratory trouble, seizures, a cholinergic crisis is literally the effect of certain chemical warfare agents, as is also, ironically enough, anticholinergic delirium ... the antidote to this? Atropine. Talk about a potentially very unpleasant pharmacological pendulum) and short acting (to manage an overdose intramuscular injection would be needed perhaps hourly, rather like how naloxone must be given repeatedly in overdosage of long acting-opioids.) Having benzodiazepines on hand would also be potentially useful but I'd worry about them causing disinhibition and further delirium. In a perfect world, 1-2mg physostigmine i.m. every 30-60 minutes until the symptoms resolve; if needed, ideally after some of the anticholinergic symptoms resolve, 2mg lorazepam i.m. for sedation and seizure prophylaxis, option to repeat in 45-60 minutes if desired levels of sedation are not met. Antipsychotics would be absolutely contraindicated. Monitor heart rate and blood pressure.

This thread, which ended quickly, is a pretty good read ... if you're dead set on doing datura which I still maintain is a very bad choice ... as far as datura-tripping HR goes, i.e. it's futility ...

I have not done this but it is probably what I would do in a hospital, standard disclaimer not medical advice etc. But I would never try datura or be around people trying datura again(*) without having this protocol as an option. But yeah, not something to be done in the home unless you, or rather your trip sitter, really knows what the hell they're doing i.e. have two letters after their name know what the hell you're doing.

Since this protocol is not an option for most people, safe datura use really isn't either. But maybe I'm just getting old and conservative in my approach to drugs.

(*) All that having been said, I have a good datura story, and though it's not a first person one, it should give a sense of what it's like to be around someone on datura, and this is not even someone having a particularly bad time. You may have read it here in PD, which is probably where this thread belongs, but for the benefit and amusement of people reading the current thread ...

Spoiler: story time with SKL, lightly edited

Me and me old lady at the time. I'm travelling after some shows, with my girl at the time, both of us spun to all hell on some kind of cocktail of LSD, DOC, 4-MAR, ketamine, and probably some other things I'm neglecting to mention (remember, do as I say, not as I do), been up for several days, etc. We wound up in the city, in this tiny, filthy cramped studio apartment in the LES of this wooked out guy who introduced himself as an "urban shaman." Our respective collections of drugs come out and we party a little, then he reaches deep into his bag and picks up a big old bag of datura seeds. I know exactly what the hell they are and am quick to say no thank you, but the wook/shaman keeps going on about how they "impart spiritual power," and I wasn't able to convince my girl not to do it. She, having never been to the city, wants to go to Times Square of all places, and was a pretty headstrong chick, so let's just say I spent the next 24 hours or so trying to keep up with her deliriously wandering around the city and doing things like trying to go down on the up escalator. She was completely incoherent, conversing with people who weren't there, etc. It could've been a really potentially dangerous situation but thankfully even as much drugs as I had in my system I was able to manage things, but I would not be very interested in a do-over.

Theme song:

Yes, if I had some vials of physostigmine and Ativan laying around it would have been a better day for both of us.

(Also for shits and giggles: I----, do you read this site? Are you alive? Do you remember that New Years? I think about you sometimes and what would have happened if I met you at the airport.)

 

[Burnt Offerings]

All I know is that it has an extremely negative reputation as a drug, especially the aspect of producing extremely vivid, life-like hallucinations which the user misinterprets as reality. Not the stylized, abstract hallucinations produced by the classic psychedelic hallucinogens which often encompass your entire field of vision...no, instead it's a hallucination in which you see one person or creature in particular that's fully formed as an image and is unmistakable in your brain as reality. Fuck that. You're probably "better off" just taking a massive dose of Benadryl.

 

[SKL]

I did the benadryl overdose thing when I was an edgy 12 year old who was into DXM and shit. I mostly slept but the waking part was a terrible, godawful experience. Would give same advice as in my above post. But yeah given that it's a pharmaceutical in known doses, it would be harm-reducing to choose it over a plant with varying alkaloidal content.

 

[szuko000]

I did the benadryl overdose thing when I was an edgy 12 year old who was into DXM and shit. I mostly slept but the waking part was a terrible, godawful experience. Would give same advice as in my above post. But yeah given that it's a pharmaceutical in known doses, it would be harm-reducing to choose it over a plant with varying alkaloidal content.

QFT I tried the benadryl thing too when i was younger. It just made it hard to concentrate and everything would make me jump the following day even if i was expecting it. I have vague memories of the visual effects making it hard to focus, it making me tired and sick feeling and left me off for the next day. I would never recommend delirium as a fun experience ever.

 

[Mycophile]

I never did datura because of massive difference in potency of the Material.
I did however quite often combine dxm with diphenhydramine. And diphenydarmine being a delireant gives the same effects.
I also smoked phantom cigarettes and talked to imaginary people. Usual bugs and spiders, the copy of a real cat of a friend followed us outside.
I saw trinity from matrix in leathersuite and sunglasses outside on snowy streets (it was really snowing). And big machines building themselves up behind her at the end of the street.
One time i was angry at a female friend, because we were walking outside and she kept making herself invisible just to piss me óff.

I recommend against delireants because it can get quite dangerous. Even moreso with datura.
And it's imho not really enjoyable. Dxm masks the unpleasant bodyload of dph but i wouldnt do it again.

I have read that it is NOT true that diphenydramine gives the "same effects as daturas" but yes, they are both delirients so can SOMETIMES produce SOMEWHAT similar experiences.

I think that you are going too far in saying they "give the same effects".

I think that's kind of like saying that LSD and Shrooms "give the same effects" because they are both psychedelics, or that Meth and Coke "give the same effects" because they are both stimulants.

 

[zirbeldude2]

Maybe not the same effects but definitely similar effects.
If you are looking for datura like effects it's safer to take diphenhydramine.

 

[hydr0m0rph]

SKL, Zir, mullet, very cool.. thanks for your replies.
im wondering why so many people have similar experiences on datura. ie the phantom cigs thing. and other similarities in people who have never met eachother.. why do u think that is?

 

[blight12]

A friend I knew used to do a lot of these, not the moon flowers but the seeds in the pod, i think its another version of datura.

His experiences where very terrifying. The prob with this stuff is that it does not cause hallucinations, but delusions. There is no differentiating them from reality.
Its almost like paranoid schizophrenia or psychosis in its practical effect. There does not seem to be any recreational, therapeutic or any other kind of value from this based on what I have heard through the direct experience of others.

Its more like being poisoned or going uncontrollably insane for days where you can easily kill yourself or harm others without knowing it. Definitely something to stay away from.

 

[hydr0m0rph]

i understand that its not pleasant, or recreational. i have done it myself. and yes, you can't tell you are hallucinating, because it is real to you at the time.. but the reason im more interested is because of the similarity of peoples experiences. and this makes me wonder, because you may have heard shamans and others speak about the "spirit of the plant" which can be referred to datura, mushrooms, cactus, etc. the fact that people have very similar experiences on datura makes me wonder about that. because i have studied a lot of philosophy and ancient religions, and this plant is considered to be almost a bridge to the underworld and the ethereal plane, supposedly related directly to ghosts and spirits. thats why i am interested in the very similar and related experiences..

edit: i wonder if this should be in the psychedelics forum

 

[tacodude]

Cannibis, Coffee, Chamomile, and so much more are all plant spirits even morphine in opium from poppy pods. The shared phantom stoggie phenomenon is intetesting, but I think because the nicotine region developed in the brain is activated by the atropine and other alkaloids. It is a bit more advanced psychopharmocology for myself to convey my thoughts on the subject. The fact we share experiences is because we share the same human instincts we all learn to acknowledge or ignore based on the situation and those choices are what make us unique. DMT is another powerful plant spirit example and while there again are shared sensations no trip is the same. Don't really know how to conclude where I as going so I will leave it to you.

 

[hydr0m0rph]

You make some good points and i think i understand most of what you are saying thanks for the response

 

[crzydiamond]

It's kind of like where people who are up for days on stimulants see the "shadow people". And their experiences are remarkably similar as well--many of them describe seeing the same person , for example a common one is "the man in the hat". There are some great threads on BL about the shadow people

That always interested me, for the same reason you are saying datura interests you. I have no experience at all with datura. But I understand what you are trying to say. How can people who don't know each other, have completely different life experiences, and live on different sides of the world see the same hallucination?!

It does make you wonder how much of it is imagination and how much is (???) something else

 

[tacodude]

To your last question crazy diamond maybe inherited biological human instinct that keeps us on our toes we learn as we get older to ignore to reduce stress and allow concious thought such as to restrain instinct being reactivated by something that acts the same in all of us bundled in nature with other psychoactive materials leading each plant to have it's own "spirit," and not just a species spirit like a high proof spirit or alcohol beverage.

The world is what you make of it.... You just have to use the building blocks you are given, which sadly greatly varies leaving some with none and others too much yet creating the individuality and identity that is unique to all of us creating diversity in life, which is a lot more interesting than a world of the same singular simularity. Like the results of being crushed into the pin of a black hole. On the outside interesting.... Inside not so much.

 

[paranoid android]

No just no. Seriously i've done most everything worth doing and many that where not. But Datura was the one drug i drew the line at. Though i have taken Scopolamine one of it's main alkaloids in medical doses for the nausea due to food poisoning and also for stomach cramps due to that and IBS. It's a perfectly fine drug in medical doses but no way would i want to experience that level of Delirium plus you can't judge the dose of Atropine and Scopolamine in these plants.

Once when i was super fucking sick after eating some BBQ that wasn't cooked so good i put 2 Transderm-V Scop patches over my ears and took Dimenhydrinate with it to stop the god awful puking. I also got someone to drop off a bag of Sour Diesel and that's when things started to get odd. I lit up a pretty big joint and it seemed to kick the anticholinergic effects of the drugs in big time. By the time i got halfway down the joint i was wondering why the sky was so blue and why the clouds seemed so close and how green the trees across the valley seemed. This was probably due to my very dilated pupils and the weed of course.

Before anyone thinks this was pleasant i stopped being able to tell if i was just thinking something or saying it out loud. This caused a good bit of anxiety but once the zombie effect kicked in thinking wasn't such a big problem really.

Personally id resort to nutmeg before Datura. I just know of too many people who permafucked themselves from 1 time on it. I did try Dimenhydrinate when i was like 12 and i would never repeat that horrible experience.

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

I've never used Datura but I know people who have. They took it with Ayahuasca in a country where it is completely legal to have a religious ceremony where you are with a guide or shaman who will look out for you while you are experiencing the Ayahuasca and Datura together.

I once knew a guy in university who told me how he had wanted to take Datura but he was a bit odd as he loved extremely high doses of disassocative drugs like DXM, K, and even PCP, and he had once eaten what he thought was Datura but it turned out to be the wrong plant and nothing happened.

 

[sleepwalker]

I grew Datura but my research showed me its not my thing.
I respond better to chemicals like LSD.
But I can tell you I had a friend who was a wannabe shamen or witch.
I know they gathered in ENGLAND in a wiccacult. after weeks of detoxing his body.
Then there was an ointment applied to his temples ,genitals and other easy access places.
The trip involved dancing naked . And with high enough doses you will get aa complete psycholysis.

btw the image of flying witches comes from the use of Datura. But they didn't sit on the broom as we picture it, but the broom was used to get the Ointment inside their genitals.
info; A .Hoffmann: Plants of the Gods.

 

[sleepwalker]

I once knew a guy in university who told me how he had wanted to take Datura but he was a bit odd as he loved extremely high doses of disassocative drugs like DXM, K, and even PCP, and he had once eaten what he thought was Datura but it turned out to be the wrong plant and nothing happened.

Seems like your friend needs to studie more. Eating a bunch of leaves like that can be a stupid thing. Several seeds couldt give you a "Grimm-Trip" allready.
So glad my mom taught me about all plants and their accidental hallicinogenic propertys. Through her i learned and became an expert in Morning Glorys, wondertrees and White Widow.
She allways said: No, we don't go out to buy weed in the coffeeshop. We simply grow it ourselves...