Misc Daily Adderall, Xanax, and Kratom and Vivid Dreams

[Sertürner]

So as the title states, I use 30-60mg Adderall, 2-4mg (3mg scripted) Xanax daily, and 30-50g Kratom daily. I've been on this combo for a few years, with a few breaks in between but not many.
I have suffered from very vivid dreams almost nightly for a long time now and it is getting worse. The dreams are usually disturbing or terrifying, but some will be just very surreal. I am at a point now where I am exhausted from them. I dont want to go to sleep because I know that they are waiting for me. It is almost as if I dont actually sleep, but travel into another version of myself in some weird fucked up alternate reality or dimension. I have questioned whether the drugs I am prescribed and/or the kratom are contributing to the vividity of my dreams but I cannot find anything about this. I have not had what people would call a "good" dream in so long that I dont remember the last time I had one. There used to be nights where I wouldn't remember my dream(s) at all, but those days have passed. I am wondering if anybody could contribute their knowledge on the drugs I take, either solo or in combination with eachother, and their ability to affect dreams.
It might not sound like a huge problem, and most people I talk to about it tell me that they wish they could remember their dreams like I do, but it feels like I live 2 lives and I get 0 rest. I have a therapy appt next week about it but I really dont want to bring up my drugs because I am pretty sure the therapist will latch on to the idea that they are the cause before any real investigation has been done.

So any knowledge or information, whether through drug studies or just anecdotal evidence, on my drugs and their effects on sleep,REM cycles, disturbing and vivid dreams, ect. would be GREATLY appreciated.

Thank you,
Mr. Deeds

 

[Mycophile]

Sorry for what you are going through man.

Well, as you know, I also take regular Klonopin, which is obviously not the same but related to Xanax, and have plenty of experience with Dex/Adderall and Kratom.

One thing is that they all VERY negatively effect my sleep quality, and they all obviously reduce REM sleep, and leave me very tired the next day, but regardless of them decreasing REM sleep that doesn't mean you won't dream or make it at all weird that you get vivid dreams of any kind, good or bad.

Me personally, I have always had very vivid dreams that I remember my whole life, and since I take 4mgs of Melatonin nightly, which I know personally grealty effects my dream recall and maybe the amount of dreams I have period, I remember my dreams most nights.

Do you take Melatonin?

Cause if so, that could be a factor, though not everyone reacts how I do to it, for ME it means I will remember my dreams and dream more.

That being said, the more Kratom and the more Dex/Adderall I used, the less I will remember my dreams because of their poor effect on REM, but still, I usually remember them because of the melatonin.

So, while I certainly don't have the answer here, you are taking 3 substances that REALLY BADLY mess with your sleep quality and "sleep architecture" as they would say, and there's probably little question that they have much to do with your dreams.

May I ask, do you feel that you wake up tired and do you feel that your sleep quality is negatively effected by them?

Just curious, cause sleep quality and dreams are probably going to be related.


Now me personally, I have a lot of extremely vivid nightmares, so we have that in common, and yes, we use similar drugs so that probably adds to it.

But the other really big thing is, I don't know if you believe in psychotherapy/psyhoanalysis/Psychology, but I do and my mom is a Jungian Psycho-analyst, and I've seen many therapists throughout my life, and there is a real science behind dreams and they have real meaning and need to be studied.

As I understand it, the unconscious mind takes your daily experiences and encodes them into intricate symbols while you are asleep in order to try to communicate to us messages which we are not properly getting while we are awake in order to teach us lessons so we can change our behaviors.

So the thing is, I know my nightmares aren't just from substances but from me not addressing certain issues I need to address, and any therapist or psychologist worth his/her salt is going to tell you the same thing: that you have certain issues you are not addressing and that is why you are having nightmares.

I mean sure, different drugs are sometimes said to give certain people nightmares, but I think that if you or I were doing everything right in our lives we could take any drug we wanted and even if they made our dreams super vivid they wouldn't be nightmares, maybe good or neutral or just weird dreams.


So the fact that you and I are having a lot of bad dreams, any therapist is going to tell us that we aren't addressing certain problems in our lives and that that is what our dreams are trying to communicate to us, and while they will probably acknowledge that while the drugs can greatly effect our dreams, that they won't be the actual CAUSE of the nightmares.

So honestly, if you do tell your therapist about the drugs and he just says "oh, it's all because of the drugs you take" then IMO that is proof he's a quack and doesn't understand dream-work and true dream-therapy.

A GOOD therapist is going to ask you to write down your dreams or at least do your best to remember them and he/she is going to ask you to describe your dreams and will ask you about your daily life, and will work with you to interpret what the symbols in your dream mean and what messages they are trying to convey to you.

Then what happens, and I HAVE EXPERIENCED THIS DIRECTLY...is that when I listen to what my dreams are telling me more and try to take the actions I believe my dreams are conveying to me that I should take, I ACTUALLY GET FAR FEWER NIGHTMARES AND BETTER DREAMS!!

See, there will be people undoubtedly who don't believe in true psychotherapy/psycho-analysis who will say this is a crock of shit and dreams "don't mean anything"...and they are WRONG.

What happens is...when you give you dreams serious attention, your unconscious mind realizes you are paying attention to it and paying it respect and rewards you for it, especially if you take actions based on the messages of your dreams.

Your unconscious is just another part of your brain and the nightmares are symptoms of one part of the brain not taking the other part seriously.

So yeah man, I think that the drugs are obviously a part of it, but it's not just like your nightmares will go away if you are able to stop taking them or cut down because whatever your unconscious brain is telling you is still the same.

I mean, the only way I see it that if you stopped taking them that the nightmares would go away would be if that is literally the one and only real thing your unconscious is trying to tell you through the nightmares, that you need to use less drugs, and then you listen and take less drugs, then your unconscious is like "oh, ok, he got the message, so lets take the nightmares away."

Otherwise, if you are doing anything wrong with your life that is NOT the drugs, they nightmares wouldn't stop just by you using fewer drugs.

So...that's how I see it and how psychotherapists/analysts/psychologists worth their salt will see it.

It's like how if you have a bad trip on a psychedelic or bad anxieties while on weed, generally speaking, something is being communicated to you as far as an issue you are not addressing and it is creating a blockage.


So...I think if you want the nightmares to stop then there's going to be 2 ways 1) addressing the information the nightmares are telling you by talking about them to your therapist and trying to take the right actions based on the messages they are giving you and 2) perhaps taking fewer drugs that negatively effect your sleep if you are able to do so.

But definitely it's not just the drugs man. Dreams have real meaning behind them.


So, that's my 2 cents.

Hope it helps and I would really start talking to your therapist about your dreams and the symbols in them and trying to interpret what they mean.

 

[Mycophile]

Also, all that being said, I think you probably want to reduce the amount of these substances you take if possible, and/or at the very least take them as long before your bedtime as possible so that they effect your REM less, and I need to follow the same advice.

Cause the thing is, no matter how many hours you put between your last ingestion of them and bedtime, there is still going to be some left in your blood stream to negatively effect your sleep quality and your dreams, and that's a big issue.

Like, as I said, any good therapist will agree that nightmares are largely about issues you aren't addressing in your life and not ONLY the drugs, but I would not be surprised if one of the messages your nightmares are trying to tell you is "dude, you are really messing with your REM sleep and this is bad for you, and you need to do less" LOL...

Might seem silly...but like...your brain doesn't want you fucking with it, and I'd say chances are that at least ONE message your dreams are giving you is that you aren't treating your body properly.

I could be wrong, and I don't mean to preach, but I just know me personally how badly these same substances we both take mess with my sleep quality.

But I don't think it could ALL be about the drugs, as nightmares in particular, compared to just any super vivid dreams, are telling you that something is going wrong that you need to address.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Man I have the same issue, I had this for a loong time. I wondered if it was due to my opioid usage but an other member told me that there is a sleep behavior disorder which might be a sign of parkinsons.

@Painful One knows more about the subject as she was diagnosed with this disease. I feel you when you say how exhausting they are

 

[Painful One]

Yeah. This may be a sleep disorder. I would have your doctor check you out for sleep disorder.

REM Sleep Behavior disorder is what I have and they consider it a “precursor “ to Parkinson’s disease and are now considering diagnosing people who have this sleep disorder with early Parkinson’s disease.
I have been diagnosed with a “white matter brain disease” which is most likely Parkinson’s disease.

The REM Sleep disorder is constant vivid dreams which you act out.
There are different sleep disorders, but this kind of thing is actually a symptom.

 

[Jack123456]

I sometimes got auditory hypnagogic hallucinations when I took high doses of Kratom and was nodding from it. I never get them when I fall asleep naturally. Googled a bit and some people write that Kratom gives them vivid dreams or makes lucid dreams more likely (although apart from the auditory stuff when falling asleep, I never remember my dreams).
Might not have anything to do with it, just thought of mentioning it.

 

[sassyfrass]

Forgive me if you already smoke but Cannabis before bed has never failed to supress my dreams, until i stop smoking that is.

 

[Mycophile]

I sometimes got auditory hypnagogic hallucinations when I took high doses of Kratom and was nodding from it. I never get them when I fall asleep naturally. Googled a bit and some people write that Kratom gives them vivid dreams or makes lucid dreams more likely (although apart from the auditory stuff when falling asleep, I never remember my dreams).
Might not have anything to do with it, just thought of mentioning it.

That's weird cause Kratom TOTALLY interferes with my sleep and dreams.

Frankly, I don't get how anyone sleeps on it but everyone reacts differently.

For me it has to have WORN OFF like 6-8 hours before bed or I usually can't sleep, and when I do for the first few hours it will be like the lightest sleep EVER to the point where I will be asleep one second, then the next I am like lying there awake thinking about something (not dreaming at all, not even hypnagogic dreams as I get those a lot when NOT on Kratom...I actually REALLY enjoy them...) and so I'll go from being asleep to lying there thinking about something for like 10-15 mins before I am even aware that I'm not asleep anymore and fully awake having regular thoughts and it will really bother me cause of how much it interrupts my sleep.

For me, I get hypnagogic dreams regularly from melatonin, but only when falling asleep and they feel nice.

Kratom kills my REM.

 

[Mycophile]

Forgive me if you already smoke but Cannabis before bed has never failed to supress my dreams, until i stop smoking that is.

Well, weed, and many other things, has a negative effect upon REM sleep, but finding way to suppress the OPs REM sleep doesn't sound like a good alternative tov me cause that's not healthy and he would not be dealing with the real issue.

I mean, if done short term just to get to bed and not be afraid to sleep because of the nightmares it could be a necessary evil and helpful for a while, especially with something as benign as weed, but it would just be a short term fix and could eventually make things a bit worse and he wouldn't be dealing with the real issue.

 

[Larimar]

My nephew is on a adderall / Ritalin type drug for ADD/ADHD and he gets night terrors as a side effect of the meds.

 

[Mycophile]

Mr. Deeds: would you say that you are getting night terrors and/or sleep paralysis?

Cause I thought you just said very vivid nightmares/lucid dreams, but night terrors and sleep paralysis are a whole other level.

I don't get those, except one time as a little kid like 3 years old I woke to think I saw a shadowy figure with a hat and trenchcoat laughing in my room and freaked out, and lots of kids get those.

Do you wake up unable to move or speak for minutes on end?

That would be sleep paralysis and probably where the myths of incubus/succubus come from: very interesting.

Or is it more believing you see things that are not there in your room and as if you are walking around doing things while asleep, or only nightmares?

If it is sleep paralysis and/or night terrors (and I believe they can be seperate and not coinciding, though they are related I think and often are) then that could be a sleep disorder worth looking into.

Good luck.

 

[Jack123456]

That's weird cause Kratom TOTALLY interferes with my sleep and dreams.

Frankly, I don't get how anyone sleeps on it but everyone reacts differently.

For me it has to have WORN OFF like 6-8 hours before bed or I usually can't sleep, and when I do for the first few hours it will be like the lightest sleep EVER to the point where I will be asleep one second, then the next I am like lying there awake thinking about something (not dreaming at all, not even hypnagogic dreams as I get those a lot when NOT on Kratom...I actually REALLY enjoy them...) and so I'll go from being asleep to lying there thinking about something for like 10-15 mins before I am even aware that I'm not asleep anymore and fully awake having regular thoughts and it will really bother me cause of how much interrupts my sleep.

For me, I get hypnagogic dreams regularly from melatonin, but only when falling asleep and they feel nice.

Kratom kills my REM.

Hm.
How is anyone else in this thread resüonding to Kratom regarding sleep?
Because a friend of mine with whom I've often taken Kraton is the same, really light sleep/can't sleep on it either.
I've always thought that he had a weird reaction to it, but maybe I am the weird one?

 

[Mycophile]

Hm.
How is anyone else in this thread resüonding to Kratom regarding sleep?
Because a friend of mine with whom I've often taken Kraton is the same, really light sleep/can't sleep on it either.
I've always thought that he had a weird reaction to it, but maybe I am the weird one?

Some other people sleep on it fine, in fact, I've HEARD that when you get truly dependent you can't sleep unless you ARE on it and wake up when it wears off, but I don't know as I have never allowed myself to get in too deep and never had WD that lasted more than a few days and it is when I am in WD that I sleep forever and have a hard time waking up.

But different strains matter as far as red being more sedating and green and white more stimulating, and the few times I've fallen asleep without as much trouble it's been when I took red stains.

The first time I ever took Kratom like 5 years ago I made tea, which is not something I do anymore, and it was so strong I was nodding out, but since then I have never nodded off of Kratom.

Everyrone reacts differently because it is both a stimuluant and a downer.

 

[Sertürner]

I take the kratom nightly for sleep. Usually a heavy strain like Chocolate or Bentuangie for pain. I cant say for sure that the kratom is not the cause, but I have had the dreams on my kratom breaks as well so I dont think they are the primary cause of them.
I'm not having sleep paralysis, I know this for sure because my wife has this occasionally and it is nothing like she describes. I'll share one of my dreams from last night (I had an anthology series last night that was particularly unpleasant).

I'm on a platform in the middle of the ocean, I think it's made of cement. Another woman who is very dark skinned is standing on the platform with me. We have apparently been out there a while just hanging out in the cloudless midday sun. She begins to tell me that we must try to go back to the beach because of the sharks. I am unsure why she thinks there are sharks but I have a sense of fear that tells me that she is not lying. She doesn't want to leave the platform but I know if we dont go then we will die. I dive into the water and start swimming toward the shore. The water is calm and crystal clear. Other people are in the water as well, some heading back to shore and others unaware of the approaching danger. I am pretty close to shore now, but the water is still very deep for some reason. I can feel the shark(s) approaching. All of a sudden they dart right past me, one on either side at least 9-10ft long. A narrator or somebody with a speaker announces that they are great whites. I can see them clearly through the water as they swim by, and they are Blacktips and not Great Whites. After they pass me I lift my head out of the water and see a younger man, with a completely shaved head laying on a towel with friends on either side of him. One of the sharks jumps out of the water and is flying right toward him. The shark (now about 5ft long for some reason) bites down on his scalp, ripping it off and exposing a bloody skull. The man is in shock (as in he went into shock), his friends look horrified as the shark flops on to the sand with the scalp in its jaws. I am not horrified by this and wonder instead why the shark didnt attack me, a much easier target. I am brought to my next dream after this. The next one leads into another and so on until I wake up.

Sometimes elements from one dream are brought over into the next, but usually not. I do not act out my dreams, at least not usually. There have been a FEW instances but they are far and few between.

This thread doesn't really belong in OD so mods feel free to move it when you can =). Thank you!

 

[nuttynutskin]

Probably the adderall and/or xanax. I take 30 grams of kratom throughout the day and haven't really had any unusual dreams. This is just a guess of course.

 

[Mycophile]

I take the kratom nightly for sleep. Usually a heavy strain like Chocolate or Bentuangie for pain. I cant say for sure that the kratom is not the cause, but I have had the dreams on my kratom breaks as well so I dont think they are the primary cause of them.
I'm not having sleep paralysis, I know this for sure because my wife has this occasionally and it is nothing like she describes. I'll share one of my dreams from last night (I had an anthology series last night that was particularly unpleasant).

I'm on a platform in the middle of the ocean, I think it's made of cement. Another woman who is very dark skinned is standing on the platform with me. We have apparently been out there a while just hanging out in the cloudless midday sun. She begins to tell me that we must try to go back to the beach because of the sharks. I am unsure why she thinks there are sharks but I have a sense of fear that tells me that she is not lying. She doesn't want to leave the platform but I know if we dont go then we will die. I dive into the water and start swimming toward the shore. The water is calm and crystal clear. Other people are in the water as well, some heading back to shore and others unaware of the approaching danger. I am pretty close to shore now, but the water is still very deep for some reason. I can feel the shark(s) approaching. All of a sudden they dart right past me, one on either side at least 9-10ft long. A narrator or somebody with a speaker announces that they are great whites. I can see them clearly through the water as they swim by, and they are Blacktips and not Great Whites. After they pass me I lift my head out of the water and see a younger man, with a completely shaved head laying on a towel with friends on either side of him. One of the sharks jumps out of the water and is flying right toward him. The shark (now about 5ft long for some reason) bites down on his scalp, ripping it off and exposing a bloody skull. The man is in shock (as in he went into shock), his friends look horrified as the shark flops on to the sand with the scalp in its jaws. I am not horrified by this and wonder instead why the shark didnt attack me, a much easier target. I am brought to my next dream after this. The next one leads into another and so on until I wake up.

Sometimes elements from one dream are brought over into the next, but usually not. I do not act out my dreams, at least not usually. There have been a FEW instances but they are far and few between.

This thread doesn't really belong in OD so mods feel free to move it when you can =). Thank you!

Damn, that's a pretty intense dream.

I too have had some very intense vivid nightmares of that sort (I mean different subject matter obviously) and I also have those "dream anthologies" you are talking about (sometimes nightmares, sometimes good dream, sometimes just weird or all three) where one super vivid dream leads into another into another, all night long. I've actually had a lot of them within the past year or two. Sometimes they have been really bad, but sometimes I like them. The fact that we do take similar drugs and have this kind of thing happen does make me wonder if that is somehow a partial-cause for them, but again, the subject matter and the fact that they are nightmares all means we are trying to be told messages by our unconscious and those messages are not just the result of drugs alone IMO.

Honestly, it's kind of weird, but I generally like to dream because my dream world is just so weird and interesting and unusual that often times even the nightmares feel more interesting than my daily life hahaha. A lot of them feel like I am tripping.

But if they are REALLY bad I won't like it obviously...and obviously as we agreed all dreams have deep meaning behind them and I think you should tell your therapist about them if you have one and try to help him interpret the types of messages they are giving you to figure out what they mean.