Harm Reduction Cycling Anxiolytics, Vistaril, Kratom, Phenibut

[i'm crystaliziiing]

Hello. I'm writing this out of concern for a loved one to fight panic attacks & PTSD symptoms. Kratom daily and Phenibut as needed works very well for PTSD here.

From what I understand Vistaril (hydroxyzine) lasts roughly 6 hours, but the elimination half-life is 20 hours for adults. I've read about potency of Kratom roughly doubling when combined with with Vistaril.
If Vistaril is taken at night, does anyone have opinions on how this may affect taking Kratom the following day?

& ultimately. I'm wondering about the safety of spacing those three out. Vistaril one evening, Kratom the following day, Phenibut late that night, nothing the next day besides maybe something to sleep, kratom the following day, and Vistaril that night would repeat the cycle.

Does this sound like a safe enough way to use these spaced apart?? The Kratom species is White Boreno since it's one of the most recommended for anxiety with lowest analgesic properties. The main concern is spacing Phenibut far apart from Vistaril... and of course, dependency risk reduction. I would be so grateful for replies on this matter.

 

[SKL]

Vistaril is non-habit forming unlike the other two. There is no real reason to space out the doses. It is doubtful that tolerance is much of an issue although you might get a bit more out of it if you haven't used it daily. I doubt there would be much difference in skipping days though. If you can tolerate it without getting too sedated, you can take it in the morning as well. It is also a decent PRN for anxiety.

Kratom and Phenibut are problematic in terms of being addictive as I'm sure you know. This kind of regimen has the potential to slide into daily use really easily.

Are you prescribed the Vistaril? How? Why not take it as prescribed if so? Clearly it helps you otherwise I assume you wouldn't bother.

Vistaril would almost certainly potentiate Kratom. Antihistamines (as Vistaril is, accounting for the sedation; it's also slightly antiserotonergic which accounts for the bulk of the anxiolytic effect) are known to poteniate opiates. Phenibut would probably too. Vistaril and Phenibut would potentiate the sedation of one another but not really the anxiolysis.

I would focus on taking the Vistaril. I assume you weren't prescribed benzos for a reason and that reason should apply to avoiding phenibut too. Kratom as an axiolytic is just kind of asking for trouble. If you want to take it to get high occasionally, and can avoid the trap of daily use, you do you. I'd suggest avoiding it. That you were prescribed Vistaril not a benzo suggests you have addictive tendencies or are considered to by your doctor. I'd take that to heart on at least some level.

 

[i'm crystaliziiing]

Thank you so much for your reply. It means so much right now. The main issue is they suffer from DID and we're concerned about memory impairment with benzos. Unfortunately this is not a disorder GP's and other doctors have a good track record of being educated on; there's no known medications for it, which makes the risk for medical trauma quite high. However this is strictly for controlling panic attacks.

The GP, prescribed Lexapro following reports of a very adverse reaction to a few days of the lowest dose of Cymbalta leading to typical SSRI discontinuation effects... Upon further investigation Lexapro is one of the major drug interactions to be avoided with vistaril for cardiac reasons. In this case kratom would be used to mitigate SSRI discontinuation symptoms... so as far as i know they plan to not take lexapro since cymbalta amplified the severity of distress by several times. What's most alarming is, someone who has DID undergoes enough stress, this will cause their identities to split which can lead to total loss of memory of entire parts of their lives.. in some cases alters do not return for years. The incident preceding their instability unfortunately was s-x-al assault leading to a mp report. Personally, very specific kratom strains with low analgesic effects, and... Phenibut.. only in the case of emergencies stopped me from having to re-experience the pain of such an awful thing happening to a loved one in the form of flashbacks/body memories daily. I'm finally able to start to get my life back. With that rejuvenation, my priority now is being armed with harm reduction data to come up with a plan to at least help get themselves to reach a state of stability that's stable enough to start seeing a therapist virtually.

Personally I use White Boreno for PTSD/Depersonalization/Derealization management. That particular strain seems to stop Dissociation which ironically there's no known medication for.

Do you think Vistaril taken the night before would still potentiate Kratom the following day, given that the effects last between 3-6 hours? The medication is too sedating for them to function at work.

 

[i'm crystaliziiing]

I guess what im trying to say is avoiding benzos is a matter of avoiding someone's medication being weaponized against them due to exacerbating memory issues. Honestly im breaking out in tears re-reading that.. Any amount of critical thinking would really help. It's a condition that yields extremely high probability of uninformed/misinformed doctor's orders leading to more trauma. Thank you so much for your help

 

[Xorkoth]

Hey there, as SKL said, hydroxyzine is not habit forming, and it works pretty alright. I would maybe consider it the first line of defense, the thing to always be able to fall back on and use. But, I will say that phenibut is amazing, and is specifically prescribed for PTSD in Russia. it produces confidence and is very good against anxiety, in a different way from benzos, it takes 4-5 hours to fully kick in, and lasts a day, but is physically addictive. Once every 3 days is the absolute max you can use it, but I would recommend once every 4 days or less. However if your loved one responds well to it, it might be your best possibility, even better than a benzo would be (again, if they're a good responder). gabapentin, too, is similar to phenibut but lighter, and gabapentin is less addictive, but still addictive. kratom, as you know, can also be quite good, but also as you likely know, is also physically addictive, so shouldn't be used daily. Another thing that could help, though for me it is mild, is kava. it is not physically addictive and does produce an anxiolytic effect.

You could also try the Russian anxiolytic as an adjunct, fabomotizole. Some people experience a lot of help from it, and it is non habit forming, but I have mixed results, myself. Reports indicate that it is one of those subtle, slow to take effect drugs (as in, takes a week or two to start noticing anything). Some people get a lot from it, some don't. Couldn't hurt to try.

Although, all this being said... depending on the level of trauma, if you find something that works, it could be worth daily dosing if the resulting quality of life is a substantial improvement. But be aware of the eventual need to come off of something physically addicting, it's difficult and will produce a lot of rebound anxiety for a while.

 

[i'm crystaliziiing]

Thank you guys so much. Y'all are amazing

 

[Xorkoth]

Another is Selank, a nootropic peptide that is specifically found to be good against generalized anxiety disorder and has a variety of nootropic and metabolic effects. I found it mildy useful myself but never took it for long. There are some good peptide vendors but also some crappy ones with crap product so you have to make sure to find a good source. It's taken via nasal spray or injected under the skin. The dosage is in the micrograms range.

Selank - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[i'm crystaliziiing]

Thank you so so much! I will totally look into this!