cycle help for an older guy

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2B_large

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Jan 4, 2015
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New registration, but have read a lot on here already (almost feel like I know some of you, just from reading the posts). I have not cycled (except in my late 20's with dbol only) but with a little help and alot of questions, I am hoping to get myself out of the dreams and into my reality to be HUGE!!! I am 41 yrs old, 5'8, 230 lbs with 16% BF. I have trained on and off since my 20's but had a shoulder injury that screwed me for a time and then life happens and my dreams fell again. I have been back on top with lifting for a little over 2 years and have takin my BB very seriously since. Unfortunately, my 41 yr old ass isn't building enough, nor fast enough (So tired of working to death and eating (hate eating) to only have 17 inch arms, grrr so dam frustrated). I want my 23 inch arms, dam it I deserve it LOL.

I tore my supraspinatus tendon about 8 years ago and never had it fixed (I have movement but can't build the medial deltoid as much as I would like), hence the stak below has HGH and the Eq. for some help in the tendon department as well as my age.
I would like to pick your brains on the cycle I came up with and get your thoughts on it. I am a person that likes details, so if you think I can or should change things, please give me details as to why.

Sustanon 300 or testosterone enanthate – 2x per week @ 300 mg per dose for 12 weeks

Equipoise (boldenone undecylenate) - 1x per week @ 300mg per for 12 weeks

Dianabol – 20mg 1st wk, 20mg 2nd wk, 30mg 3rd wk, 40mg 4th/ 5th wk, 30mg 6th wk, 20mg 7th wk, 20mg 8th wk.

Nolvadex for controlling estrogen 1-10mg per day for weeks 3 to 12 and PCT with for 10 days.

HGH - every 3rd day @ 2 iu per

Thanks again in advance for all your comments and suggestions.
 
Hey man, im no expert when it comes to steroids but ive been researching like mad because i am going to start my first cycle soon. I see a lot of flaws in your cycle plans.

First and most importantly your first cycle should be test only. If you add multiple compounds all at the same time and you run into some issues you wont know which one is causing that issue.

Next EQ is for long cycles like 16-20 weeks. You dont run it for only 12 weeks because im pretty sure you wont get the most out of it in that short of time.

Running Dbol for 8 weeks is probably too long for an oral. like 4-6 weeks

You dont use nolvadex on cycle to control estrogen because nolvadex doesnt lower estrogen. it just doesnt allow estrogen to bond to the receptors in the nipple. Plus ive read somewhere that nolvadex and 19-nors(i think EQ is a 19nor) dont mix well for some reason.You would want to use an AI for on cycle control of estrogen.

I have no idea about HGH.

It seems like you just want to go all out and become a monster right now but that takes years and years. One thing ive learned from months and months of researching steroids is they are not a magic drug. Your diet and training come first and then the steroids are the icing on the cake. I really feel you would benefit greatly from a test only cycle @ 500mgs a week for 12 weeks and instead of spending thousands of dollars on roids you can use half of that for your food. Hope this helps
 
Thank you very much. I have been trying to figure out this stuff. A book from guy in the UK (don't want to use his name, but he has a big "Hart") has a few cycles that use nalvadex throughout the cycle. He used different phases of prarabolon, Win, prop, oxy with nalvadex every day. I do agree with you about to much all at once (I was looking for a cycle for after test only or test and dbol, then to a cycle like this). The use of EQ and HGH was to help my joints and tendons, as it has benefits in these areas as well.
As for my diet and training, I should have probably said more about that, as I have my diet spot on to my bodies needs (i have been a personal trainer for the better part of 20 years working with 8 Natural BB'ers. Some of whitch have moved up to pros. Not trying to toot my horn, just establishing credibility to my focus on exercise and nutrition).
I will take your post to heart and see about makeing some changes. Again thank you for your post.
 
Looks fine to me. At your age I'd just stay on low dose test between blasts. Instead of nolvadex look into raloxifene. It's more kind to the body. Eq is very soft compound with little sides especially at the dose you're running it at.
 
Thank you for your input. I guess I have a two headed nickle now LOL. One says yes, one says no. Guess I need a few more inputs.
 
2B_large said:
Thank you very much. I have been trying to figure out this stuff. A book from guy in the UK has a few cycles that use nolvadex throughout the cycle. He used different phases of parabolan Win, prop, oxy with nolvadex every day. I do agree with you about too much all at once (I was looking for a cycle for after test only or test and dbol, then to a cycle like this). The use of EQ and HGH was to help my joints and tendons, as it has benefits in these areas as well.
As for my diet and training, I should have probably said more about that, as I have my diet spot on to my bodies needs (i have been a personal trainer for the better part of 20 years working with 8 Natural BB'ers. Some of whitch have moved up to pros. Not trying to toot my horn, just establishing credibility to my focus on exercise and nutrition).
I will take your post to heart and see about making some changes. Again thank you for your post.
Click to expand...

I am 41 yrs old, 5'8, 230 lbs with 16% BF.
Click to expand...

Sorry to appear critical...

Nolvadex on cycle was an old-school method not generally used on low dose cycles today...

You would be best off starting on testosterone only and introducing a new compound (boldenone) maybe after about 6 weeks if showing no side effects..

Have your shoulder injury treated before starting any cycle, as your weights increase, strain on the injured tissue will increase which could result in making the condition much worse, plus having to stop mid-cycle due to injury..

At 230lbs 5'8, 16% BF, the aromatase enzyme in adipose (fat) tissue could give you considerable estrogenic side effects... You do not start a cycle at 16% BF.. Your diet is NOT in check, this needs to be addressed before any cycle...!!

Nolvadex binds ER-alpha receptors, this doesn't halt aromatization (estrogen conversion), an AI (aromatase inhibitor) does this... at 300mg/week you shouldn't require an AI.... Blood tests after about 6 weeks will confirm E2 levels..

Your 8 "natural"? Pro-bodybuilders are not natural...lol
 
Thanks GF I respect your input as I have read alot of your posts on here. I kind of figured nalvadex was old school, thanks for that. I read some other stuff on here and I agree about adding in other stuff as I go along. Your definantly right on the BF %, I had no plans on starting a cycle this high. I am at this point because I was really pushing to get more calories in and as a result it has helped, but thats one of the reasons I have looked into cycling, my body has a tendency to really not like good carbs (tend to get a bit thick from them (also was backing off the cardio to just make sure I had enough coming in). The shoulder is OK, (its not as dramatic as it sounds) I have rotation all movement, mild pain once in a while, but its not worth the 8 weeks to pull the tendon (no doctor would do it because it wasn't enough reason IN THERE opinion).
I must say with all confidence in the world "My trainees were 100% clean before going to IFBB and getting there pro card". With OCB they had to be, drug tests and lie detection was used alot and my trainees were to affraid to try and fudge the tests. I am very proud of the work they put in and very proud for there accomplishments. I do not know about now, but back then they truly did not. (sorry, I will stick up for what they have done.)
Thanks again GF again I do value your advice and will take what you gave me about my cycle. :)
 
Test dosage is fine but unless you want to do eod pins stick to test e or c.
Imo extend the cycle to 15 weeks which is exactly 3 10ml vials.
Agree with gf on the waiting a few weeks before starting the boldenone. It can aromatics to Estrogen and with your body fat percentage it is not good to have excess Estrogen floating about your system.

Dbol should be run for no moretthan 6 weeks, Imo for a newbie plan on 4 weeks then extend if your up to it. Start at 30mg and stay there for at least 2 weeks andiif you feel you can take more bump it to 40mg. No need to go up then down again.

Nolva doesn't prevent Estrogen conversion it merely stops it binding to the receptors in the nipple which causes gyno. You shouldn't need it anyway. Have aromasin on hand just in case or another ai such as adex.

There really isn't a need for hcg it is now known to shut you down more it's only 2 uses are if you are trying a baby or want to keep your balls full.

AndI tthink somebody mentioned above that eq is a 19nor, it's not... It's a testosterone derivative.
 
thanks nolys. Not HCG, HGH at 2 i.u. every 3rd day.

So if I understand correctly:for
15 weeks
600Mg per week of test e or c
Dbol 30mg and stay there for at least 2 weeks and if tolerable 40mg on the 3rd and 4th week then stop.
GH 2 iu every 3rd day

Going to take out the EQ for now, next cycle I may put that in for a longer run. But if I where to add EQ where would I put that into a cycle like this, I know some say its not great but I was looking into the benefits of it with tendons and bone tissue reasons (at my aga its not a bad thing to have a bit of help in that department and thats why I was looking into the HGH as well)


 
Sorry I misread that lol.
I would even suggest 500mg it would be plentyaand your shit will most likely be dosed 250mg per ml so makes dosing easier.
With the dbol I'd say anytime between 10 days to 2 weeks before increasing it personally. I went too high too quick my first time round and ended up with shin splints, itchy nips, pumps so bad I couldn't finish a rep of a light weight...

Eq I would add in at a higher dosage than 300mg, personally if I were to run it my starting point would most likely be 6-800mg per week but that's as a weight gainer not a healer. It also needs to be ran 15 weeks plus, I'd say 20 weeks would be best for eq. Deca had similar healing properties as eq and will be better for adding mass and actually being worthwhile in a cycle. Now I haven't tried eq, but I do hear mixed reviews, nobody ever says it's amazing though, never. Deca is guaranteed to add mass and also has healing properties
The one thing I would watch out for with Deca would be shutdown. It's a 19nor which isn't native to your body it will shut you down hard, making recovery a bit moreddifficult, but I assume your in this for the long haul so this shouldn't beaan issue. Consider blasting and cruising, at your age it may be the best option rather than having to re recover over and over again. Will probably mean you will end up on trt for life though. I'm 22 and I'm fully aware I'll be on trt when I'm older, I'm actually glad I'll test levels similar to a 18 year old male when I'm 50 lol
 
Thanks nolys!!! I think your advice makes a lot of sense.
15 weeks
500Mg per week of test e or c

Dbol 30mg for at least 2 weeks and if tolerable 40mg on the 3rd and 4th week then stop.

GH 2 iu every 3rd day

What would be a good AI if needed? sorry you answered that already ADEX.
And if I would cruise would you suggest dbol or test e or c?
lastly, If I needed to stop and go to a PCT when would I start the (clomid or nalvadex) about 10 days after my last injection? and about how much per week or per day would be needed and for how long?
Again thank you very much for all the help. This stuff is so dam hard to figure out on your own. thanks to everyone with this knowledge.
 
Last edited:
2B_large said:
Thanks nolys!!! I think your advice makes a lot of sense.
15 weeks
500Mg per week of test e or c

Dbol 30mg for at least 2 weeks and if tolerable 40mg on the 3rd and 4th week then stop.

GH 2 iu every 3rd day

What would be a good AI if needed? sorry you answered that already ADEX.
And if I would cruise would you suggest dbol or test e or c?
lastly, If I needed to stop and go to a PCT when would I start the (clomid or nalvadex) about 10 days after my last injection? and about how much per week or per day would be needed and for how long?
Again thank you very much for all the help. This stuff is so dam hard to figure out on your own. thanks to everyone with this knowledge.
Click to expand...


Stick on one compound for a first cycle, as previously explained if experiencing estrogen induced side effects, you wont know if its the test or dbol..

hGH could be used ED first thing.. or even micro-dosed around the shoulder for injury repair..

Cruise only on Testosterone C or E 2X/week pin..

PCT:

As you approach the start of PCT, as your steroids dissipate you introduce an Aromatase Inhibitor. You do this to reduce the amount of estrogen conversion that takes place.

Your externally administered testosterone will drop to nothing and you will not be producing testosterone as you start PCT. So you want to make sure that you have reduced estrogen as well.

This is just going into PCT. You want to create a situation where both estrogen and testosterone will rise together. So the AI of your choice should be used in the last 2 weeks of the cycle and immediately discontinued at the start of PCT.

The choice of SERM and duration may vary but PCT should always start with Clomid. You do not need a huge dose in the first few days.

Here is what to do:
Start with Clomid for three weeks and reduce the dosage and overlap it with Nolva in week four. Dose Nolva for 3 weeks thereafter.

After 7 weeks in the last day of Nolva introduce an AI and run that by itself for three or four days.

Thats about it. PCTs as you can see are very long. But they are designed to recover from 6 month cycles. PCT is about as long as the cycle.

Then stay off and learn to be natural again for another 6 months or more.

In my opinion this approach can allowed you to fully recover after years of experimentation.​

Addendum

Another thing I forgot to mention is don't wait for the steroid ester to completely clear before starting Clomid. Start w/ moderate dosed Clomid EOD or lower dose ED during the time wait for longer esters to clear.

This is relevant for something like Cypionate.... so during the 16 days it takes to clear dose Clomid.

Also HCG is sometimes used but only during the least two weeks before PCT starts. you may choose to dose 1000mcg EOD (5 dosings) for 10 days.

A SERM is not a SERM is not a SERM.

Clomid does more then act as an anti-estrogen in certain tissues. In the pituitary it acts as an estrogen, sensitizing pituitary cells to the actions of gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH). This stimulates release of FSH & LH. Enclomid the active anti-estrogenic component of Clomid is as effective as Clomid in this regard.

Tamoxifen (an anti-estrogen) is completely ineffective.

Clomid mediates the positive effect at the estrogen receptor.

Both Clomid and tamoxifen are almost equally effective at binding to the pituitary estrogen receptor. As noted Tamoxifen has no estrogen mediated effect in terms of an ability to increase GnRH-stimulated release of FSH & LH. What it does is just occupy the receptors...or block them so that E2 or Clomid can not have a positive influence.

That isn't what we want in the first few weeks of PCT. That is why not to use Tamoxifen in those early weeks.
 
^^ is that maybe why clomid gives estrogen like mood effects while tamoxifen doesn't? What about the newer serms like raloxifene and torimifene? What's you're view on those? I know ralox is better for gyno than others and alleviates some estrogen related prostate issues but not sure on its effect of stimulating gnrh.
 
Serotonin101 said:
^^ is that maybe why clomid gives estrogen like mood effects while tamoxifen doesn't? What about the newer serms like raloxifene and torimifene? What's you're view on those? I know ralox is better for gyno than others and alleviates some estrogen related prostate issues but not sure on its effect of stimulating gnrh.
Click to expand...

Its now recommended, especially on GH15 by those in the know to replace Nolvadex...
 
Daz-69 said:
Its now recommended, especially on GH15 by those in the know to replace Nolvadex...
Click to expand...
I just wasn't sure if it worked to encourage pituitary release of gnrh like clomid or if it behaved more like nolva. It's looks very promising and I'm thinking of getting some to run low dose daily as like a vitamin: improves lipids, bone density, prevents and shrinks existing gyno, protects against estrogen related bph, and doesn't lower IGF like nolva and doesn't cause the awful vision and mood sides of clomid. Looks like the essentially perfect serm.
 
Serotonin101 said:
I just wasn't sure if it worked to encourage pituitary release of gnrh like clomid or if it behaved more like nolva. It's looks very promising and I'm thinking of getting some to run low dose daily as like a vitamin: improves lipids, bone density, prevents and shrinks existing gyno, protects against estrogen related bph, and doesn't lower IGF like nolva and doesn't cause the awful vision and mood sides of clomid. Looks like the essentially perfect serm.
Click to expand...

Big Cat swears by raloxifene..
 
I really need to keep up to date with my hormones I never heard of this raloxifene...
Would you do pct with this standalone or with clomid?
 
nolys said:
I really need to keep up to date with my hormones I never heard of this raloxifene...
Would you do pct with this standalone or with clomid?
Click to expand...

They don't discuss PCT on GH15, but I'd say it would replace Nolvadex..

Some science:
Tamoxifen exhibits antiestrogenic, estrogenic, or mixed activity depending on the target gene measured. Tamoxifen inhibits the proliferation of cultured human breast cancer cells and reducestumor size and number in women, yet it stimulates proliferation of endometrial cells. The drug has
an antiresorptive effect on bone and decreases total cholesterol, LDL, and Lp(a) but does notincrease HDL and triglycerides. Tamoxifen approximately doubles the relative risk of deep vein
thrombosis and pulmonary embolism and endometrial carcinoma. Tamoxifen produces hot flashes and other adverse effects, including cataracts, nausea, and hepatic steatosis. Due to its agonist activity
in bone, it does not increase the incidence of fractures.
Raloxifene is an estrogen agonist in bone and reduces the number of vertebral fractures by up to 50% in a dose-dependent manner. The drug also acts as an estrogen agonist in reducing total cholesterol
and LDL but does not increase HDL or normalize plasminogen-activator inhibitor 1 in postmenopausal women. Raloxifene does not cause proliferation of the endometrium. Raloxifene has an
antiproliferative effect on ER-positive breast tumors and on proliferation of ER-positive breast cancer cell lines and significantly reduces the risk of ER-positive but not ER-negative breast cancer. Raloxifenedoes not alleviate the vasomotor symptoms associated with menopause. Adverse effects includehot flashes and leg cramps and a threefold increase in deep vein thrombosis and pulmonary embolism.
 
I don't do pct myself but think it's wize to keep up to date thanks for posting
 
There's very few generics out sadly as its new, but I'll be ordering some from India to test out soon when I order some pharma t3 and clen. Nolva doesn't affect me too badly but sometimes I feel my cock doesn't work like it used to while running it and I'm just mentally a bit foggy.
 
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