Cures or Worsens Mental Illnesses, Which is it?!?

[Cudi]

Alright so most of us here know the great potential psychedelics have. We also know the great potential dangers they pose psychologically to susceptible individuals. There's always been one thing that's bothered me though.. Many people will tell a depressed or anxious person "Do not take psychedelics, for they may worsen your condition" or that they may have a traumatic suicidal trip, or something along those lines. Others will say YES take psychedelics if you suffer from conditions like this because they can potentially cure them or help you see the world in a better way.

Is it really just a dice roll? I feel like it completely depends on how you react to things during your trip. If you react the wrong way, you will be possibly traumatized and your condition worsens. If you react the correct way, or just simply be, you may be better off in the long run and your depression or anxiety or OCD symptoms may be improved. Only problem is, anxious people are more susceptible to reacting the wrong way during a trip to certain thoughts or stimuli. The same goes for a depressed person or person with OCD (someone like me). When I say the wrong way, I mean fighting the experience and letting the fear control you. In 2014, I was traumatized by LSD. I was too young, took too much in the wrong setting, mixed it with pot, suffered from anxiety, OCD, and depression... I didn't try LSD again until a month ago, where I had a very calm and relieving experience. and then again two weeks ago. I'm now taking a break for a while, but both were good experiences.

If I trip again and decide to take a higher dose, I'm just afraid it may worsen my obsessions, depression, and anxiety. But at the same time, these last 2 trips showed me there's nothing to fear. They also seemed to help slightly with my depression, but not so much my anxiety or OCD. Is it stupid to continue taking psychedelics if you're someone like me? Or perhaps not so stupid since I've proven to myself that I CAN have a good experience on them? Where the absolute fuck do we draw the line? I can't tell if my obsessions have gotten worse or not. They run rampant in my mind and for my next trip, I'd really like to learn how to quiet all the chatter in my mind and destroy my obsessions from within. Before then, I'm going to practice meditating much more than I already have in the past.

 

[TripSitterNZ]

keep the doses low as its a journey of healing it will take many years of proper use of psychedelics in a good set and setting to overcome your problems. Once you have healed then you can start going up in doses. It took me around 50 acid trips til i truly felt like i had overcome most the issues that plagued my mind.

IMO LSD is the greatest substance to ever grace the universe and its the number one thing that has kept me alive from depression all these years.

 

[SunriseChampion]

Yeah, start with low doses.

I cured myself of depression and social anxiety with MDMA and psilocybin mushrooms but that was probably just luck. The MDMA and mushrooms so changed my perception of reality that I started to think differently which is how I really overcame my mental health issues.

Also, my set and setting were absolutely ideal which was very important.

 

[G_Chem]

Agreed with the other posters, starting low is huge. Don’t listen to the T. McKenna wannabes that spout about needing to jump right in, that’s how people get damaged.

Also set/setting is huge as well. If you just haphazardly take psychedelics eventually they’ll work on you but you can get there a lot faster if the experience is tailored more towards the healing that needs to take place.

-GC

 

[Aeon Psyche]

A trip can go in so many different variable ways that a mental condition may either become worse or better depending on how the trip turns out. There's no linear path for correct guidance in this matter. Each trip is different and as such is the result that will be experienced. In any case, be carefull.

 

[Hexagon Sun]

Mostly agree with all responses. Keep on the low doses. Space doses, 2 weeks better than one week.

You can also try microdosing (look for volumetric dosing first) for a few days or a week to see how does your body react to.

Finally dont mix with cannabis as it tends to go chaotic and into the bad trip side

 

[Xorkoth]

I will echo the above sentiments, and would like to particularly note to avoid mixing with cannabis until you really know what's going on. Cannabis itself is known to exacerbate mental issues, and contrary to what many people suggest, cannabis mixed with psychedelics does not calm things down, it massively increases the strength of a trip, and the confusion/anxiety. There are many, many stories people have posted on here and elsewhere about a trip going along fine, then smoking weed and everything turning around and the trip becoming terrifying/confusing.

 

[SunriseChampion]

I'm just going to go ahead and come back with my agreement on avoiding ganj in conjunction with psychedelics....and, really, probably in general.

It can seriously exacerbate psychological problems.
For me, all it does is give me serious anxiety attacks.....the worst ever of which was after a night of MDMA...I thought I was dying, but like with pulses of energy shooting up my spine and my vision going all tunnel and....nah mate....don't do it.

 

[BenzosBudOrBooty]

I can only really speak for what myself....and kinda reference studies ive heard. I learned at a young age that I was pretty irresponsible with all substances. Psychedelics quickly became my favorite though when I tried them. I knew I couldn't control my use. I didn't think id have as bad a trip as I did. honestly didn't know id ever become fucked up. But I think my mental illness was blinding me. I think they can help anxiety and depression.....but that's if the person is TRULY anxious and/or depressed. Maybe their anxiety and depression is schizoaffective disorder. It was for me since I was 14 years old I probably had schizoaffective disorder. I could tell because that's when I entered a fantastical world of grandiosity where I used my mind to propel myself and my ego probably to deal with trauma. I also heard voices, had delusions, w/e..... People didn't know. I only tried pot at 18. Alcohol 18.5...Lsd at 19.5. Other drugs later....But nothing was like those first 8 good LSD trips....Until 9th trip was terrible when I took a lot of LSD and just had a bad time you know??? Mental hospitals. Schizoaffective. I had to figure it all out for myself. Because I had no insight. Psychedelics and psychosis dont mix,,,,unless u really went really slow and careful into it like people are saying....well that probably goes for everyone. But I think psychosis+psychedelics is ALWAYS a tricky situation. Maybe I can manage some ketamine or something here and there but LSD im never gonna a good full experience if I try a billion times.

That leads to my next point.... Psych MEDS (if they help u, and they help me a ton) and psychedelics definitely dont mix by ANY means. I learned this the hard way mixing 5 grams of psilocybin mushrooms with caffeine, alcohol and abilify....fucked up my brain really badly for years....until meds, marijuana and ecstasy treated my really bad HPPD.....Ive had a lot of problems....Ive made some music tho about the subjects. Life is interesting/fun now. Im in control its nice.


Maybe Jesus Christ could freakin take shrooms and be schizophrenic and be fine but that's all im gonna say....just wanna say im not Christian.....

 

[pupnik]

Obviously the majority of experts are largely ignorant, and us trying to decode what they are claiming puts us into a confused and locked down position.

The evidence shows that, by using psychedelics in a controlled situation, some long term (diseased) behaviors like alcoholism and PTSD can be cured.

Meantime, The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fifth Edition (DSM-5) provides lawyers opportunities to appeal on behalf of clients, for lighter sentences and enables some consistency for negotiation of care or incarceration through the courts for a large number of people that will not conform adequately. However, this authoritative volume really just correlates observable symptomatic behavior with tags or names without any explanation. Medication that is dispensed for a wide swath of all the many named disorders either suppresses all cognition without any specificity (antipsychotics), modulates signaling (SSRI's), or mediates reward feelings (dopaminergics). Other chemicals pepper the soup.
AND THEY GET RESULTS!

I do not think they understand the results that they get, but the bad behavior becomes curbed.

When it comes to psychedelics, the workings of the associative mind are exposed differently than that to which historical psychiatric experts are accustomed, and I think it reveals very significant mechanics about memory, and thinking as well as stream of consciousness in general.

In Psychology (and maybe one day psychiatry too (if it ever gets off the legal DSM cornerstone of guild self validation)), we are slowly moving into a more wholistic understanding of self, and personhood, and of society, and normalness. Psychedelics are part of that wholistic approach, and so far, the form of treatment is less connected to the results than it is the collaborative commitment of the participants. Perhaps commitment and awareness are the core of the treatment and psychedelics are just the best lubricant to get the parts aligned.

 

[Tranced]

It's both.

I tend to think that a lot of the people I see who have problems with psychedelics have major thought based anxiety disorders (generally obsessive, uncontrollable worry), and they also have problems rationalising subjective & objective fact. That's just my observation though.

 

[coldraviolis]

I think it really depends on the mindset u have while ur taking the psych, i have some mental health problems but they have never gotten worse because of psychedelics, they have actually gotten better, or at least the first time i took dxm (i know its a dissociative but whatever) i spent a month in a rly good mood which was weird for me at the time because the previous weeks i had spent hours on end just crying

 

[pofacedhoe]

It's both.

I tend to think that a lot of the people I see who have problems with psychedelics have major thought based anxiety disorders (generally obsessive, uncontrollable worry), and they also have problems rationalising subjective & objective fact. That's just my observation though.

certain types of people will think in absolute terms and dont like when stuff becomes vague

also it really depends on the psychdelic - mescaline for example is often seen at moderate dose as easy to handle

these drugs are not all the same in terms of the potential for the trip to go bad- some come with a positive push in mood (mescaline) and some dont (for me mushrooms - they can go in any direction easily), others can induce paranoia more frequently (lsd)

IME the more the ego dies the greater potential for it to go haywire

some pyshcs have pretty colours but you retain more of your sense of self

also dont add canabis as many others have mentioned and dont take large doses

 

[Tranced]

certain types of people will think in absolute terms and dont like when stuff becomes vague

also it really depends on the psychdelic - mescaline for example is often seen at moderate dose as easy to handle

these drugs are not all the same in terms of the potential for the trip to go bad- some come with a positive push in mood (mescaline) and some dont (for me mushrooms - they can go in any direction easily), others can induce paranoia more frequently (lsd)

IME the more the ego dies the greater potential for it to go haywire

some pyshcs have pretty colours but you retain more of your sense of self

also dont add canabis as many others have mentioned and dont take large doses

Yeah some are definitely easier to handle, especially most with an empathogenic push. But take 2c-b - which is widely considered one of the easiest to handle - I've seen a lot of people take it and be fine & loving it. A few take it and be anxious/edgy. And one who took it and just did not react well at all. This became apparent when he went "so, come on then. What's the crack"? When anybody says this at a party or on a psychedelic it only means one thing, so I knew things were about to go off the wall. I asked him what he meant and he was like "You know. You know. With all the cameras and stuff and that third eye on your head. I know you're the director".

Turns out he thought I was the director of a TV show that he starred in. He seemed to respond to reason & logic, but apparently he still doesn't trust me.

 

[Wilson Wilson]

Personally I found psychedelics have helped my mental health massively.

As others have said: set and setting is vital, dosing correctly is vital, knowing what to expect is vital, not smoking weed if you're new to psychedelics is vital.

If you treat psychedelics with the respect they deserve they can be very positive indeed, but like any other drug they can also cause many problems if abused.

It also depends a lot on the type of mental illness. Anxiety and depression are things that can be helped greatly by a good trip. But if you have a psychotic disorder such as schizophrenia, tripping could very well exacerbate your psychosis.

Perhaps controversial but I also believe adult autism can benefit massively from LSD, MDMA, etc.

 

[SunriseChampion]

I really need to get into some of these other psychedelics. Especially the more novel and rare ones. I read a lot on here about how mushrooms can be the most difficult.

I only have experience with mushrooms and a touch of LSD and the one time some sort of DOx thingy and I gotta say that mushrooms are not bad at all. I have had a couple of touches of anxiety issues with them but nothing crazy or overly unpleasant. I've sort of been too scared to try anything else but if a lot of you are saying that mushrooms can be the most difficult....then I think I may have been scared all these years for nothing.

 

[pofacedhoe]

I asked him what he meant and he was like "You know. You know. With all the cameras and stuff and that third eye on your head. I know you're the director".

Turns out he thought I was the director of a TV show that he starred in. He seemed to respond to reason & logic, but apparently he still doesn't trust me.

that guy has giant ego

I always find paranoia goes hand in hand with oversized ego's

same with 2cb one of my now dead friends years back at uni we were tripping and he said he could see the flesh fall off our face and we turned into skeletons on a loop, slowly decaying forever. clearly not a happy trip

 

[Tranced]

that guy has giant ego

I always find paranoia goes hand in hand with oversized ego's

same with 2cb one of my now dead friends years back at uni we were tripping and he said he could see the flesh fall off our face and we turned into skeletons on a loop, slowly decaying forever. clearly not a happy trip

He definitely doesn't have a giant ego. He's a childhood friend of two people I know, and a very strange polar opposite of them. He's a very strange recluse who doesn't seem go have a high opinion of himself. He genuinely thought he was in a TV show.

 

[Cream Gravy?]

I have extreme anxiety issues that are treated with benzodiazepines (also have to take them for GI pain but that's another story). Even before I began treatment I was able to enjoy psychedelics and learn from them, and feel mental relief. My wife held off and watched me trip for some 8 or so years before deciding to dive in herself because of a family history of schizophrenia.

I guess my point is you really can't know how someone will react. My wife loves to trip with me now and it helps her with depression. I've always been rather cavalier with them and dose whenever I feel like it. But when it comes down to it, every 'freak out' or panic I've seen on a psych is down to dosage, set, and setting. If you're in a bad frame of mind, don't trip. If you're in a bad place to trip i.e. parents' house, party full of normies, etc., don't trip. If you've never tripped before, don't let someone convince you to dive in at a higher dosage.

When I introduced my wife to them, I chose the most gentle one I could at the lowest dosage possible, then picked a day she had off from work when we were both feeling good about life and each other, and I let her guide herself save for when she needed me. We didn't go out in public, we didn't watch any unsettling movies or listen to unsettling music, we controlled the trip as a psychotherapist might without the clinical setting (which I bet is freaky as fuck honestly, who wants to trip at a doctor's office?) and she has found good relief from her depression in the weeks following each trip.

 

[Cream Gravy?]

I always find paranoia goes hand in hand with oversized ego's

I do find this a common recurrence though. The less 'full of themselves' someone is, the easier it is to let go of the ego in the first place. Narcissists tend to panic when their ego starts to dissolve. I watched my friend go from ego-centered to saying, "I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry," and running away from crowds at a festival once, it was entertaining for me. I had told him the mushrooms would force him to look at his inner self, he kept muttering, "You were right... You were so right," and laying on the ground and wanting me to accompany him to quiet places like his car or an empty field of grass lol