COVID-19 Vaccinations: Calling all bio-pharmacists

[empeebee]

Hi all,

Long time blah, blah, blah..

So, Covid-19 vaccinations are grown in bio-reactors not chemically manufactured. By causing the immune system to identify the virus and stimulating T-cell response, the body effectively goes to war against the virus (if I have it right - please correct me if I am wrong) thereby reducing the probability of the virus causing life-threatening, serious consequences, even though the vaccine recipient may still become infected and able to transmit the virus to others.

My question then; could the immune system mis-identify the virus causing a mistaken over-supply of T-cells which could then require treatment via T-Cell suppressants to prevent T-Cells from going to war against the cells we need? I.e. causing leukaemia or similar cancers?

If so, would the T-Cell suppressants reduce the efficacy of the vaccine?

Thanks for your reply.

Empeebee.

 

[sekio]

By causing the immune system to identify the virus and stimulating T-cell response, the body effectively goes to war against the virus (if I have it right - please correct me if I am wrong)

technically the vaccine works like this: it is a piece of modified RNA which is "packaged" in a protective shell. The RNA codes for a variant of the spike protein found on the surface of the coronavirus. The "packaged" RNA makes its way into a cell, where the cell now begins producing the spike protein, eventually causing the cell to lyse (explode), releasing spike protein into the blood, where B cells recognize the spike protein as foreign and begin production of antibodies, some of which eventually become memory cells that produce long lasting immunity.

could the immune system mis-identify the virus causing a mistaken over-supply of T-cells which could then require treatment via T-Cell suppressants to prevent T-Cells from going to war against the cells we need?

there is a built in mechanism that prevents this, as I understand it, when T cells differentiate, any cells that react with the major histocompatibility complex (a protein that is unique to every person, and is used to Identify Friend or Foe so to speak) are killed off before they cause problems

also, the only novel part about the vaccine is its unique means of making cells produce the antigen. Other vaccines using e.g. inactivated viruses or synthesized antigens would work just as well to produce an immune response, and I'm not sure that we see any sort of T-cell overload in those cases.

If so, would the T-Cell suppressants reduce the efficacy of the vaccine?

Anything that suppresses the immune system is a bad idea in general.

 

[empeebee]

Thank you @sekio and honoured that you should participate in my question, once again humbled by your knowledge as per our previous conversations Do you happen to be a bio-pharmacist or pharmacologist by any chance - not prying and feel free to tell me not to ask but your knowledge seems to transcend that of the average.

Your reflections on RNA understood, and if I make it personal for a moment, I will find which drugs my 82-year old mom is on and advise accordingly. I am advising her however to seek the opinion of her doctor Doctor's however only know what current science can tell them and science can change in the space of a day or less

What is of wider interest is whether there may be any longer term consequences of the vaccine. Some understand how the immune system is 'tricked' into identifying dormant/benign versions of the virus to produce antibodies but could the immune system be double-tricked into misidentifying a more common, less harmful version version of the common flu as coronavirus causing irregular, potentially damaging over-stimulation of antibodies

Furthermore, my concern is more about the aforementioned long-term consequences. Vaccines could take up to a decade before being approved for general public use yet here we are understandably vaccinating millions after less than one year of clinical testing. What could the long-term implications be? A vaccine which makes us less resistant to leukaemia, myeloma or similar?

Allow me another question if you will. If you are offered a vaccine would you have it?

 

[Skorpio]

The common flu does not have any homology to the spike protein so there will be no crossover in response.

There is some chance other Sars coronaviruses or mers could have a little bit of crossover (as they use spike proteins to enter other cells, but that response would simply induce killing of the virus.) I don't understand what you mean by over stimulation of antibodies, as they are inert except for what their epitope is directed against. Having a high anti body titer would cause less harm rather than more harm.

I am not sure that any vaccines have ever been shown to increase cancer prevalence.

I have received the first dose of the moderna vaccine.

 

[empeebee]

Thank you @Skorpio, what I mean is than over stimulation of white blood cells could, as per my mom who has previously had hep C., can create an environment where too may white cells are being produced. She is currently on medication to suppress white cell production to prevent said cells entering the general system and potentially damaging critical organs. I will have more information on the medication shortly.

My question remains however; we do not yet know what the potential long term consequences are of injection cultured organisms, not chemical agents, into our systems. What are the potential consequences?

 

[empeebee]

@Skorpio, if I may ask, are you a molecular biooligist? Pharmacologist perhaps? Your language indicates a higher degree of understanding...

 

[MsDiz]

I think a lot of people are worried due to the length of time it took to create this vaccine and go through preliminary trials. The truth is that the entire world worked on this together. That’s thousands of labs working on one problem so of course they created something that was effective in a short amount of time. Human trials had plenty of participants and it was passed.

The best person to give your family member advice is her dr. They are the ones that know her medical history etc.

I have gotten my first dose of the Pfizer vaccine myself. No issues and I’m not concerned about long term consequences of the vaccine. I am concerned about long term consequences of covid though.

I am also a researcher and work in a lab.

 

[Skorpio]

injection cultured organisms, not chemical agents

The RNA in the phizer and moderna vaccines is highly purified, all of the proteins are made by your cells. At the level of purity that pharmaceuticals are held to there is very little difference as to the source of the compound.

I am also a researcher and work in a lab.

I can describe myself the same way. I'd rather not be more specific, due to the nature of this forum.

 

[TripSitterNZ]

as long as you dont get overdose of the vaccine your are fine thats when the body can develop a autoimmune problem. My issue is that this shitty oxford vaccine they are pushing on people which is 62% effective fuck that i want the vaccine which is 95%.

 

[sekio]

Do you happen to be a bio-pharmacist or pharmacologist by any chance

"Vell, sekio's just zis guy, you know?"
I have no formal qualifications but I was raised by parents who didn't get rid of their textbooks from university. So I had some nice light bedtime reading...
I think I'm a competent pharmacologist, a good chemist, and know enough mo9lecular biology to get by.

Depending on the particular studies in question, the vaccine is somewhere between 62% and 90%: [ref].
Still, 60% is better than 0%.

She is currently on medication to suppress white cell production to prevent said cells entering the general system

This may make the vaccine less effective, simply because white blood cells are the footsoldiers of your immune system army. I would ask your doctor though. If your white blood cell count is in the normal range with her normal therapy, she should be OK, I would guess.

My question remains however; we do not yet know what the potential long term consequences are of injection cultured organisms, not chemical agents, into our systems.

We already use cultured organisms to produce vaccines. Also. the vaccine in question is neither a totally synthetic chemical agent, nor a biological cell or virus. It's a new sort of vaccine that functions to make your own cells produce the immunogenic antigens.

 

[empeebee]

Thank you all,

@MsDiz - delighted to be reacquainted, albeit virtually and in a different thread. I am aware you are a lab researcher from some of your other posts. We 'chatted' once about a friend of mine's daughter and I'm glad to say is is fine now

@Skorpio - no prying intended. Good to know that there are real people out there who know what they are talking about. Thank you for your input.

@sekio - thank you too and again no prying intended. Also nice to interact with you again since our last 'chat' about certain other compounds and the best methods of CWA

Thanks again all.

 

[Skorpio]

overdose of the vaccine your are fine thats when the body can develop a autoimmune problem.

I have not heard about this, can you please give me a source?