Could addiction be therapeutic?

[Neuroprotection]

okay, this probably sounds like a really stupid question and maybe it is. however, certain experiences I’ve had in my life have brought me to the conclusion that addiction to certain substances have a therapeutic effect and could help me push through the day. of course, I’m talking about addictions to mild/relatively harmless substances like nicotine and maybe even chewing coca leaves.
Basically, in my experience, I found that when I had access to cigarettes or a large amount of nicotine replacement products, I would soon find myself meticulously planning and compulsively thinking about the next time I will administer the nicotine. i’m not a smoker, and my family/community are not aware of my use so that’s why I have to hide it.
nevertheless, my actual experiences when doing this were the opposite of what medical professionals and even smokers like my father was saying. it is commonly believed that whilst nicotine and other stimulants have cognitive enhancing affects, long-term use leads to tolerance and once the addiction sets in, The drug becomes counter-productive. for me, the complete opposite is true. whenever I first start using nicotine, I get no cognitive enhancement, and actually the Extreme euphoria I get is very distracting and puts me off work. on the other hand, once I become addicted, and strong cravings sett in, I really start feeling the benefits. naturally, I am an extreme procrastinator, a very emotional/anxious person and small interactions with nasty people can ruin my entire day.
something changes when I become addicted to nicotine. firstly, I become less sensitive emotionally and my mood is more stable. therefore, my ability to do work is not affected as much by my emotional state.
Secondly, I become strangely more driven to push through my tasks and A small part of this is my excitement about taking my next dose of nicotine. additionally, whilst addicted to nicotine, I was much more likely to value the free time I had to myself. for example, I love reading scientific articles in my spare time and I really enjoy this since I rarely get free time to myself. unfortunately, sometimes I will get bored and constantly flick through articles, because I couldn’t make a choice on which one to read, and none could sustain my attention despite being interesting. Yet I still knew that as soon as I went back to work, I would start thinking about those articles and would be happy to read any one of them. interestingly, when in the midst of regular nicotine use/ addiction, I would absolutely cherish my free time and enjoy it, even if I had nothing to do. I could take any article and read it and the enjoyment would be immense.

Finally, aside from cognitive/emotional effects i’m wondering if there is a psychological component whereby people might actually enjoy the addiction. this was definitely the case for me. Rather than the addiction taking over natural rewards/habits, for me, nicotine addiction complimented them. my next hit would be something very pleasant to look forward to and that would keep me happy throughout the day.

Of course, addiction to drugs like crack cocaine or methamphetamine is destructive and counter-productiv not only because of their extremely addictive nature or issues around legality and crime, mostly because of their extremely damaging effects on cognitive performance and brain function, including risk of psychosis.

 

[Neuroprotection]

there could be a biological basis to what I’m saying. proteins involved in drug and behavioural addiction, such as Delta FOSB and DARPP32 are heavily involved in natural reward processing, memory formation and the antidepressant response. actually, increasing the amount of Delta FOSB in the nucleus accumbens, something believed to be necessary for cocaine addiction, protects against despair like behaviours and social defeat stress in animals. I will post some links that might be useful below.

 

[Neuroprotection]

Overexpression of DeltaFosB in nucleus accumbens mimics the protective addiction phenotype, but not the protective depression phenotype of environmental enrichment

Environmental enrichment produces protective addiction and depression phenotypes in rats. ΔFosB is a transcription factor that regulates reward in the brain and is induced by psychological stress as well as drugs of abuse. However, the role played by ΔFosB in the protective phenotypes of...

www.frontiersin.org

Brain Chemical Could Help Beat Back Despair

abcnews.go.com

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.052712799

 

[neversickanymore]

Here is a ton on your “relatively harmless” freind nicotine.

Neurobiological mechanisms involved in nicotine dependence and reward: participation of the endogenous opioid system

Nicotine is the primary component of tobacco that maintains the smoking habit and develops addiction. The adaptive changes of nicotinic acetylcholine receptors produced by repeated exposure to nicotine play a crucial role in the establishment of dependence. ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Tolerance comes a little later and results in physical dependence. Addiction is a whole separate beast and often leads to physical dependence with many substances.

The paper states that tobacco kills 5 million people annually WW. Not so harmless really.

 

[Neuroprotection]

Here is a ton on your “relatively harmless” freind nicotine.

Neurobiological mechanisms involved in nicotine dependence and reward: participation of the endogenous opioid system

Nicotine is the primary component of tobacco that maintains the smoking habit and develops addiction. The adaptive changes of nicotinic acetylcholine receptors produced by repeated exposure to nicotine play a crucial role in the establishment of dependence. ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Tolerance comes a little later and results in physical dependence. Addiction is a whole separate beast and often leads to physical dependence with many substances.

The paper states that tobacco kills 5 million people annually WW. Not so harmless really.

Here is a ton on your “relatively harmless” freind nicotine.

Neurobiological mechanisms involved in nicotine dependence and reward: participation of the endogenous opioid system

Nicotine is the primary component of tobacco that maintains the smoking habit and develops addiction. The adaptive changes of nicotinic acetylcholine receptors produced by repeated exposure to nicotine play a crucial role in the establishment of dependence. ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Tolerance comes a little later and results in physical dependence. Addiction is a whole separate beast and often leads to physical dependence with many substances.

The paper states that tobacco kills 5 million people annually WW. Not so harmless really.

Here is a ton on your “relatively harmless” freind nicotine.

Neurobiological mechanisms involved in nicotine dependence and reward: participation of the endogenous opioid system

Nicotine is the primary component of tobacco that maintains the smoking habit and develops addiction. The adaptive changes of nicotinic acetylcholine receptors produced by repeated exposure to nicotine play a crucial role in the establishment of dependence. ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Tolerance comes a little later and results in physical dependence. Addiction is a whole separate beast and often leads to physical dependence with many substances.

The paper states that tobacco kills 5 million people annually WW. Not so harmless really.

Sorry, my bad I didn’t make myself clear. When I say relatively harmless, I mean in comparison to other dangerous drugs like crack cocaine or injected heroin. also, I only use cigarettes when I have no access to pure nicotine. The science around nicotine has undergone several changes over time, but this is what I’ve got so far from my research.
Firstly, there is no doubt that tobacco is deadly and taking nicotine in this form is never a good idea.
Nicotine in its pure form is not actually that harmful, But I do believe it is too far to try and say it is as safe as caffeine, it clearly isn’t.
Many research papers say that nicotine, at least in animals is not very addictive. Interestingly, I don’t believe that’s true in humans and recent studies have found people may easily and rapidly get addicted to nicotine gum intended for use as a cognitive enhancer, even though they have never smoked.

My overall view on pure nicotine is that it is a highly addictive, potentially toxic(In overdose) and in some people like me, very euphoric.

 

[Mjäll]

Sometimes an addiction is a relative necessity to get through life. It's a blurred line between addiction and hobbies or interests, really.

I don't know how i would've coped without weed ages 20-30.

I can imagine it's also altered my brain chemistry in certain ways. I'm no wizard about this but i read one study claiming that chronic THC causes upregulation of serotonin receptors. Now that i'm sober again, i feel really in tune and in touch with pretty much everything except for my own emotional baggage which is shrinking across the horizon.

 

[Burnt Offerings]

"Addiction" kind of has an inherent negative connotation (the word I mean), that's why it's distinct from, say, "dependency" (for those who become physically addicted to a drug through medical treatment)

There are aspects of addiction that people do find enjoyable though (at least for a period of time) like the fact that you no longer have to worry about anything else in life, as long as the drugs keep flowing

 

[Neuroprotection]

Sometimes an addiction is a relative necessity to get through life. It's a blurred line between addiction and hobbies or interests, really.

I don't know how i would've coped without weed ages 20-30.

I can imagine it's also altered my brain chemistry in certain ways. I'm no wizard about this but i read one study claiming that chronic THC causes upregulation of serotonin receptors. Now that i'm sober again, i feel really in tune and in touch with pretty much everything except for my own emotional baggage which is shrinking across the horizon.

Yes, I think you get my point, someone who understands me. I know THC and nicotine are very different, yet that addictive aspect could definitely help some people push through life.
Strong cravings for nicotine would give me something to look forward to at the end of the day and that would encourage me to study hard or get other tasks done so I could enjoy my hit without any worries.

 

[Neuroprotection]

"Addiction" kind of has an inherent negative connotation (the word I mean), that's why it's distinct from, say, "dependency" (for those who become physically addicted to a drug through medical treatment)

There are aspects of addiction that people do find enjoyable though (at least for a period of time) like the fact that you no longer have to worry about anything else in life, as long as the drugs keep flowing

I agree, but I would say that your statement regarding not having to worry about life while the drugs are flowing, is only really specific to the most powerful and highly addictive drugs of abuse such as strong opioids, cocaine or amphetamine like psychostimulants and maybe even alcohol. I believe the problem with these drugs is that the extreme addiction they bring about, combined with cognitive/memory impairments, higher frequency of sleep disturbances and possible neurotoxicity all additively contribute to the detrimental outcomes of dependence on these substances. that’s just my opinion based on the research, I’ve done so far, so please take it with a pinch of salt.
On the other hand, whilst highly addictive at the neurological and psychological levels, nicotine is a rather mild psychoactive drug and once tolerance has developed, it seems to have little to no noticeable effects on sleep, mood regulation, memory function etc.
Just to clarify, I don’t mean to say that nicotine is harmless or does not affect these parameters, it clearly does but nowhere near as severely as other recreational drugs. interestingly, the only area in which nicotine comes anywhere near to drugs like cocaine is in terms of its effects on the reward system and the nucleus accumbens in particular. even then, this is dependent on the dose and method of administration. Basically, studies show that slow administration of nicotine, e.g. in drinking water of rats produce no noticeable changes in the reward system even when given for several weeks. in contrast, when injected(causes Huge concentration spikes in the brain) The nucleus accumbens showed a considerable accumulation of the addiction related protein Delta FOSB. I would recommend you all check out some of the links I posted earlier on the subject of Delta FOSB and how it appears to fight against despair and depression.
Interestingly, the way I would ingest nicotine(Smoking or vaping whilst taking in huge breaths to maximise the rush, chewing 26 mg nicotine patches, chewing fresh tobacco or sublingual use of large amounts of high-strength e-cigarette liquid) Likely produced massive spikes of nicotine which I’m certain led to some Delta FOSB accumulation. I believe this because whilst I developed a tolerance to the physical effects of nicotine, my sensitivity to the rewarding effects actually increased after long-term use.

 

[Burnt Offerings]

Hey if you're into nicotine, go wild! It is a pretty addictive drug that's for sure...addictive, yet strangely crappy imo lol

 

[Burnt Offerings]

It's good in certain situations, though, like after a good meal or sex

 

[Mjäll]

I agree, but I would say that your statement regarding not having to worry about life while the drugs are flowing, is only really specific to the most powerful and highly addictive drugs of abuse such as strong opioids, cocaine or amphetamine like psychostimulants and maybe even alcohol. I believe the problem with these drugs is that the extreme addiction they bring about, combined with cognitive/memory impairments, higher frequency of sleep disturbances and possible neurotoxicity all additively contribute to the detrimental outcomes of dependence on these substances. that’s just my opinion based on the research, I’ve done so far, so please take it with a pinch of salt.
On the other hand, whilst highly addictive at the neurological and psychological levels, nicotine is a rather mild psychoactive drug and once tolerance has developed, it seems to have little to no noticeable effects on sleep, mood regulation, memory function etc.
Just to clarify, I don’t mean to say that nicotine is harmless or does not affect these parameters, it clearly does but nowhere near as severely as other recreational drugs. interestingly, the only area in which nicotine comes anywhere near to drugs like cocaine is in terms of its effects on the reward system and the nucleus accumbens in particular. even then, this is dependent on the dose and method of administration. Basically, studies show that slow administration of nicotine, e.g. in drinking water of rats produce no noticeable changes in the reward system even when given for several weeks. in contrast, when injected(causes Huge concentration spikes in the brain) The nucleus accumbens showed a considerable accumulation of the addiction related protein Delta FOSB. I would recommend you all check out some of the links I posted earlier on the subject of Delta FOSB and how it appears to fight against despair and depression.
Interestingly, the way I would ingest nicotine(Smoking or vaping whilst taking in huge breaths to maximise the rush, chewing 26 mg nicotine patches, chewing fresh tobacco or sublingual use of large amounts of high-strength e-cigarette liquid) Likely produced massive spikes of nicotine which I’m certain led to some Delta FOSB accumulation. I believe this because whilst I developed a tolerance to the physical effects of nicotine, my sensitivity to the rewarding effects actually increased after long-term use.

You've actually made a case for some intuition i have about nicotine having value (or appeal) as a "minimal drug" in the sense that it pretty much only activates reward and habit formation.

 

[Mjäll]

It's good in certain situations, though, like after a good meal or sex

Or in a fat joint to make cannabis smokeable and not having to fight through it :D

 

[SpiralusSancti]

Imo tobacco is far worse than many “hard drugs”.

And that thing you’re experience is called required taste, not therapeutic addiction. Coke can work like that too lol,

 

[Neuroprotection]

Imo tobacco is far worse than many “hard drugs”.

And that thing you’re experience is called required taste, not therapeutic addiction. Coke can work like that too lol,

Interesting you view tobacco as more harmful than hard drugs. if you’re going off the statistics about how many it kills, then yes you could say that. However, tobacco is legal worldwide, so many more people have unrestricted access. on the other hand, if you consider physical, psychological and social consequences, those of drugs like cocaine are far more severe.

Now, it’s really interesting you mentioned the concept of acquired taste for drugs of abuse. That is something I would partly attribute to Delta FOSB. Apparently, Delta FOSB increases the rewarding valence of an addictive drug/behaviour and decreases the perception of risk around it, greatly increasing a person’s, liking/desire for that reward. I have heard stories of cocaine“Growing on people“ meaning that initially, it was not that rewarding, but over time, they came to increasingly enjoy it.

 

[SpiralusSancti]

As Dr. Shulgin said, coke is mostly bad for the nose.

I’m not a huge fan of coke but I’ve done my part and consider tobacco by far more harmful than coke, physically and alcohol both physically and mentally. And opiates are less harmful than coke. Don’t tell me that people dying from shitty mixed up poisons and unknown doses of unknown drugs is not an evidence of same being as harmful as tobacco.

 

[Neuroprotection]

Hey if you're into nicotine, go wild! It is a pretty addictive drug that's for sure...addictive, yet strangely crappy imo lol

Interesting, I’ve heard a few people describe nicotine as crappy but simultaneously addictive. as I’ve mentioned earlier, I personally really enjoy its immediate effects, but I must admit I don’t have regular access to it due to my visual impairment and living with a family that would not approve of it. therefore, I’ve probably never used it long enough to develop a severe tolerance. however, I have used it daily for about a month straight at very high doses and that’s where the effects get really interesting.
As I mentioned earlier, with regular use, my emotions would become somewhat pleasantly numbed, but this was very specific to certain types of negative emotions such as excessive unnecessary anxiety about the past and future as well as severe procrastination and anxiety related to that. at the same time, my normal negative emotional responses including anxiety, fear or low mood were fully intact and in line with reality.
In terms of my positive emotions, regular nicotine use generally gave me a stable, mild mood lift and amplified generally rewarding activities. interestingly, it had a bizarre effect of simultaneously making me more impulsive if I want to be, whilst endowing me with stronger self-control if I want to resist A particular rewarding activity.

The reason I’ve been so interested in this topic recently is because of something personal that happened to me and it really frightened me. I believe it gave me a window into the suffering of people with depression.

Basically, a few months ago, I had been very stressed out for quite some time due to certain people with unpleasant/Argumentative tendencies, before catching quite a bad flu. these factors, amongst many others, must have combined to bring about temporary anhedonia but I didn’t know it at the time. sorry this is a bit embarrassing, but my first symptom/Sign something was wrong was a sudden drop in my libido which persisted for weeks after my illness. this was a shock because my libido is normally extremely high and women are always on my mind. aside from that, I also noticed a somewhat decreased ability to feel excitement/pleasure or hope. whilst I could still enjoy pleasurable things like food, my desire to pursue them was greatly reduced. I seriously dreaded waking up in the morning and the workday ahead and the only thing I really looked forward to was the day ending so that my misery of ploughing through difficult/boring/tiring tasks would end.
Thankfully, I’ve made a slow but complete recovery and I believe I have my old impulsive, reward seeking self back. interestingly, whilst my recovery was largely natural, I managed to get hold of A nicotine pouch from a packet my father had brought to help him quit smoking. for some weird reason, using it, along with a cigarette I had managed to get hold of earlier, dramatically ramped up my recovery and seem to restore my impulsivity with avengeance. just doing nicotine twice seems to have fully brought back my libido as well as my desire for good food and my sense of hope for the future. I assume this would’ve happened naturally anyway, but perhaps the nicotine sped up the process?

Really sorry for the long rant, just thought it would help you better understand where I was coming from.
Also, I just want to add that this scary experience I had given me valuable insight into perhaps just a moment of typical life for those suffering from chronic depression. I believe I’ve always been a very empathetic person, but this experience has made me even more so. I now Believe that anhedonia/depression doesn’t necessarily mean feeling bad in the traditional sense E.g. down and anxious. rather, it is a strange feeling of The whole world being forced upon you and everything you do is perceived as a task ranging from a minor inconvenience to an exhausting, chore. The ability to feel pleasure is generally still intact, but the desire to Chase that pleasure, or the perceived relevance of it is much reduced or non-existent.
This is why I believe that, at least for some cases of depression, there needs to be a reconsideration/ reevaluation of dopaminergic therapies including work towards the development of non-neurotoxic and non-psychotomimetic dopaminergic agonists. of course, this will be difficult and will be very problematic because such drugs will likely increase impulsive behaviour to a severe degree, however, in some cases, this could be the intended effect and it might save lives.

 

[Jabberwocky]

there could be a biological basis to what I’m saying. proteins involved in drug and behavioural addiction, such as Delta FOSB and DARPP32 are heavily involved in natural reward processing, memory formation and the antidepressant response. actually, increasing the amount of Delta FOSB in the nucleus accumbens, something believed to be necessary for cocaine addiction, protects against despair like behaviours and social defeat stress in animals. I will post some links that might be useful below.

Addiction is simply the attempt of the body to stay at homeostasis because we're too stupid not to do drugs.

Addiction causes changes in hormones. Neurotransmitters receptors transporter density all kinds of things. It's not therapeutic. It's actually a sign that "you done fucked your body up real good"

 

[Neuroprotection]

just done some more research on my favourite drug nicotine and found something fascinating. apparently, scientists working for the National Institute of drug abuse as well as researchers across the world have found that nicotine has a unique place amongst addictive drugs both in terms of its mechanism and its psychoactive effects.
For example, even at very high doses, it is a very mild euphoriant or according to many, not euphoric at all. this is despite the fact that I get a wonderful rush out of it, but then again I’m probably an exception to the rule, plus I’ve never tried any illegal drugs or even alcohol so I have nothing to compare it to. This brings me onto the 2nd but related point. though generally less addictive than cocaine or heroin, nicotine displayed an extremely powerful habit-forming and addictive effect which didn’t match up with its very weak psychoactive effects. this is somewhat the opposite of drugs like alcohol and cannabis and to some extent, maybe cocaine and heroin. what I mean by this is that initial use of these drugs is highly intoxicating and produces intense euphoria, which encourages people to repeat the experience, even when they are not psychologically dependent. eventually, this will lead to psychological dependence but this can take anywhere from a few days to a few weeks or months and maybe even years if use is kept at a minimum. in contrast, nicotine can produce psychological dependence, without producing initial experiences of intense euphoria. researchers suggest this might be because nicotine only mildly increases dopamine levels, yet generates drastic changes in Neuroplasticity and synaptic function that leads to the memory of nicotine as well as any non-drug-related habits co-occurring with nicotine administration being encoded as highly valuable by the brain. in addition, nicotine triggers upregulation of Delta FOSB,(A protein associated with reward sensitisation and addiction) in the nucleus accumbens. in line with these facts, nicotine performs very poorly as a cognitive enhancer or even as a motivation booster in healthy people as well as those with ADHD, unlike traditional psychostimulants which can very strongly boost motivation.
Another Study I came across claimed that nicotine, like caffeine, had negligible effects on motivation. interestingly, in so-called slacker rats (rodents that demonstrated consistent unwillingness to work hard a k a biological laziness), nicotine did actually increase attention but simultaneously increased impulsivity and increased willingness to exert effort in these slacker rats. I would consider myself extremely lazy at the biological level as well as at the personality level, though I’ve masked it very well and created the illusion for others around me that I’m a very hard worker. i’m a bit surprised, with that in mind, as to why nicotine is so beneficial in my case, though it is possible that animal and human responses to nicotine may differ. It might also be that nicotine could be biologically exacerbating my laziness, but its mood improving/emotional numbing/antidepressant effects might strongly offset and far outweigh the negative effect thus producing an overall boost in my work performance. actually, I do see how nicotine can make a person lazy. for example, while it boosts my work performance, if I take it on a day when I have no work and I am alone, I am very content just doing my hobbies and I care less about wasting time.
I now understand why my father performed so much better in his life when he quit smoking without nicotine replacement. however, unlike me, without nicotine, my father becomes extremely motivated and is more likely to think about the future and get things done. He’s also more likely to finish a task once started. again, that’s the opposite to me, naturally, I never want to finish tasks and I won’t, if I can get away with it, yet nicotine helps me to finish them.

Last but not least, due to its unique effects and my mind/ body’s favourable response to it, i’m hoping to use nicotine as my self prescribed drug of choice in the future, once I am financially independent.
I feel that due to its unique biology, nicotine does not interfere with the facets of normal brain functions to the degree where social and cognitive performance are visibly affected even when taken at relatively high doses. in fact, this is why nicotine is one of the drugs, that despite being a stimulant, is considered as a non-psychosis generating drug of abuse. this is mainly due to its negligible effects on dopamine release in the striatom. therefore, one can use nicotine at high doses, for example, in the form of chewing tobacco or less toxic lozenges/inhalers discreetly, without anyone ever noticing any signs. Unfortunately, this is much harder to conceal with psychostimulants, especially if they are used at high doses. furthermore, I assume use of traditional Psychostimulants is much harder to control, and there’s a greater risk of mental destabilisation and behavioural changes that could either affect your work/social life or be easily spotted by others. actually, I read an article which argued against the use of drugs like Adderall to improve work performance by healthy people and highlighted the extreme danger these drugs pose. interestingly, the article gave tips on how to spot the behavioural signs of someone who may be using them and I have mixed feelings about that.
Nevertheless, my overall opinion on nicotine is that for me, it’s a relatively harmless yet admittedly addictive habit from which I have gained immense benefit and no side-effects apart from nausea when I take too much.

 

[SpiralusSancti]

A high enough dose of nicotine, not a lot higher than threshold dose will make you feel really sick, enough to not being able to notice any more increase in positive effects.

Before I read what you wrote I intended to ask you what other drugs you tried. Now when you mention you only tried nicotine, your fascination doesn’t seem so weird any-more. We saw that with people only trying dramine or only booze or fixating on only psychedelic they tried and such things. I assure you that while in no way I suggest you to use any drugs, if you will opt in for just one substance, there are countless, as mild, a lot better, less harmful and less addictive. Consider passion flower or blue lotus or many of very light herbs as examples and if you try and research them I’m sure nicotine will stop being so appealing.