cops searching people

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CuPillar

CuPillar

Bluelighter
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this has prob already been answered, but, please, all i want is a one word answer, yes or no, not closed. thanks

can a cop just come up to you and say i want to search you, or can they not. can you refuse them if they do??? so say im at a rave, or somewhere, and a cop comes up to me and says, can i check your pockets, if i say no, do they go away, or get angry and bash me???

thanks
 
You can say no, but they can infer probable cause from your behaviour, I believe it is fairly similar in this regard around the (Western) world.

That is to say, even if you refuse a search they don't have to let you go. If they ask you a few questions and don't like your answers or the way you are acting (i.e. - high) they may very well arrest you and search you, and for that they don't need consent.

--- G.
 
Morrison's Lament said:
You can say no, but they can infer probable cause from your behaviour, I believe it is fairly similar in this regard around the (Western) world.

That is to say, even if you refuse a search they don't have to let you go. If they ask you a few questions and don't like your answers or the way you are acting (i.e. - high) they may very well arrest you and search you, and for that they don't need consent.

--- G.
Click to expand...

NO.

Please: The cop CANNOT legally search you unless he has a reason, or you consent.

If he just wants to pat you down or detain you briefly, he needs "reasonable suspicion".

If he wants to arrest you, detain you longer than 15-20 minutes, or search you more thoroughly (i.e. going into your pockets), he needs "probable cause".

Probable cause means that he has reason to believe that more likely than not, a crime has been committed or contraband will be found. It's like there's a greater than 50% chance of crime/contraband.

Reasonable suspicion is a somewhat lower standard, but there needs to be some reason to believe there's contraband/crime. It can't simply be a hunch or a guess, or a random search.

Refusing consent is NOT ordinarily a legal justification for them to search you.

Mind you, these are the rules for a LEGAL search. Cops do illegal things all the time, so this is not to say the cop won't actually search you; but that's not something we can predict for you.
 
Also, keep in mind that these rules do NOT apply for hired security. Private security at events can ask to search you and then kick you out if you refuse.
 
Mahan: You are 100% correct, I was just addressing what would most likely happen in the context of a doped up young person outside a rave, I doubt they would just walk away.

I have no experience with U.S. police but the laws in Iceland are the same regarding searches, they cannot take refusal to search as reasonable cause. However, they quite simply do, in my experience. They stop you, ask to search the car for example. You say no, they ask you to step out of the car and take you into the squad car while they make radio calls and ask you leading questions.

9/10 they go ahead and search the car and it is upheld as a legal search. Perhaps we got a shitty deal back home, but I would assume most cops around the world don't simply walk away from a person that was suspicious enough for them to ask for the search in the first place.

So, sorry if I misled you on the law, I'm no expert on that. However, I believe the application of the law is still pretty much along the lines I described, in that they can quite easily fabricate or exaggerate suspicious indications to justify their search.

Just be careful when dealing with cops, they don't like to be told the law and what they can and can't do :)

--- G.
 
Morrison's Lament said:
Mahan: You are 100% correct, I was just addressing what would most likely happen in the context of a doped up young person outside a rave, I doubt they would just walk away.

I have no experience with U.S. police but the laws in Iceland are the same regarding searches, they cannot take refusal to search as reasonable cause. However, they quite simply do, in my experience. They stop you, ask to search the car for example. You say no, they ask you to step out of the car and take you into the squad car while they make radio calls and ask you leading questions.

9/10 they go ahead and search the car and it is upheld as a legal search. Perhaps we got a shitty deal back home, but I would assume most cops around the world don't simply walk away from a person that was suspicious enough for them to ask for the search in the first place.

So, sorry if I misled you on the law, I'm no expert on that. However, I believe the application of the law is still pretty much along the lines I described, in that they can quite easily fabricate or exaggerate suspicious indications to justify their search.

Just be careful when dealing with cops, they don't like to be told the law and what they can and can't do :)

--- G.
Click to expand...

1) When you simply say "the police can do X", most people think you mean "the police can legally do X". If what you mean is that "the police can get away with X," or "the police will do X even if it isn't legal," then you should say so.

2) Even so, it isn't necessarily the case that police will in fact get away with illegal searches. Believe it or not, the results of illegal searches are sometimes thrown out of court.

3) It also isn't the case that all cops do illegal searches. Believe it or not, some cops actually try to follow the law.

Therefore you cannot predict what any given cop will do in a hypothetical situation. All you can really do is tell a person what is legal.

The biggest problem with your initial post is that it gave the reader the impression that they should go ahead and consent to a search, because a cop is going to search them anyway. This is extremely bad advice. You should almost NEVER consent to a search, even if the cop is going to search you anyway.

If you don't know much about the law, as you admit, then you really shouldn't be giving people advice about it.

That's my biggest problem with this forum. Probably more than half the posts responding with advice in this forum consist of poor advice. You (and everyone here) should realize that when you give people bad legal advice, you risk getting them busted or put in prison. When I get the time, I'm going to put together a stick post about this.
 
True, I admit I worded the original post badly, but I tried to indicate that it was based on personal experience.

I and many of my friends have been asked to consent to a search on numerous occasions and refused every time and been searched every time. Believe it or not, the U.S. is pretty good when it comes to civil rights, I have never heard of anyone getting anything thrown out of court in Iceland.

My father was a member of the government at a time when he was illegally cited for traffic violations he did not commit, he had a witness, but was unable to pursue it. Unfortunately this is the case in the majority of the world.

I admit I have no knowledge of the U.S. legal system as such, but I have travelled all over the world and unfortunately dealt with the police in most of those places. "I do not consent" is basically tantamount to "I have drugs" in many places, if not most.

Again, I apologize if I gave the wrong impression about the generality of my first post, since I have not been around most of the Western world. I should not have commented without knowing his location, and I certainly did not mean to indicate it was better to consent to a search. It is obviously better to at least attempt to get lucky and actually get away with no questions asked.

That being said, I believe that in most cases police (around the world) do not in fact walk away from a suspect simply because they do not consent to a search, but I wish to God it were more common.

--- G.
 
Police and such

Can do just about anything "within" reason and get away with it.

It's hard to hear, but it's reality.

Model=D
 
Well lets say i dont give the police consent and they ask me to get out of the car. So i shut it off and lock my keys in it (i have keypunch access). What can they do in that situation and what can i do (legally)?

This has never happened to me but ya never know what the future holds.
 
Again it comes down to resonable suspicion. They have to have a good reason for suspecting you of criminal activity. If it is just a random traffic stop you wil have nothing to fear. You don't need to lock your car.
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Also if the cops do illegally search, find a good lawyer and the evidence the cops may find will be deemed inadmissable. Everyone looks at the immediate situation and not the credibility of it all at court. A lot of cases get dropped at court due to improper proceedure. You do get judges and magistrates that have a chip on their shoulder about police.
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Also with the private security at clubs and searches. It doesn't matter if your intoxicated or refuse a search, they can kick you out for no reason at all, they work there and have that power.
 
Well Cops in my area try to search people without any reason. So if i got out of the car...being there is no probable cause of a crime and i locked my keys in it with the key punch what could they do and what could i do legally?
 
Reasonable suspicion = The man wanting to f**k with you.

Reasonable suspicion is based upon the cops experience and reasonable belief that you have commited a crime, are commiting a crime or about to commit a crime.

E.G., guess what the most common reason for pulling someone over for a DUI investigation is?...swerving WITHIN the lane.
Damn the man!:p
 
Exactly, their definition of probable cause is VERY loose. In my experience they don't even have to make a good case for their suspicions if they find something. Which is why I always say no, even if there is nothing in the car, as the more times they violate your rights and come up with nothing the harder it is going to be for them to justify.

--- G.
 
I can see where you are all coming from with how cops justify it to themselves and to you at the time. But they still have to explain how they came to reasonable cause at court. Alot of Cops are shit scared of giving evidence at court when they know they didn't follow the book.
 
nemisis000 said:
I can see where you are all coming from with how cops justify it to themselves and to you at the time. But they still have to explain how they came to reasonable cause at court. Alot of Cops are shit scared of giving evidence at court when they know they didn't follow the book.
Click to expand...

You are aware that cops lie are you not?%)
 
The exact laws vary from state to state and country to country. Cupillar lives in Australia.. i have no idea the exact legality.

In america they cannot search without a warrant or resonable cause. They can pat you down, supposedly feeling for weapons. Supposedly they are only supposed to pat down if they think you are a threat but they will always 'think' you are a threat to pat you down.

After they pat you down, if they feel anything funny (baggie, pipe), they will ask you about it. They are very good at getting your to admit what it is, or trap you in a lie.

Always be respectful, but remember you always have the right to remain silent. If you do have something on you, never admit to it. .A cop needs a reason to detain you and must make an effort investigate the crime that they originally stopped you for (ie they cant stop you for speeding then try to search your car) Be firm in your stance that you will not allow a search and that you wish to end the encounter

In California (and probably else where), the smell of marijuana in the air is not a valid reason for a search, so don't fall for it when the cops tell you that.


One time i was stopped by two cops while riding my bike home from a club at 2am. I had no light and i was on the sidewalk. I was sweaty from dancing so I was ripe for a pig snag. I had nothing on me besides my keys.

I get stopped. Pated down. I asked why i was being patted down since i was not indicating a threat to them "just in case" was the response. Cop gets to where my keys are in my pocket. he feels them for a good minute, feeling everything in the pocket.

He asks me what i have in my pocket... I can tell he thinks i have something illegal. I say i dont know. Cop gets in my face, i say i dont know. I get handcuffed, told im not going anywhere until i tell them. i still say i dont know, cause i dont.

eventually it comes out the cop thinks i have a crack pipe on me. i have never owned a crack pipe. I'm tripping out and say I have a weed pipe on me because i figure i must have one since the cops are freaking on me.


Turns out it was my fucking mini flashlight on my keychain. The fuckers got me to lie about a weed pipe i didnt have and to let them search me. They are sneaky, look out.
 
A dude I knew in Iceland was stopped for speeding, the cops saw how stressed he was and asked to search the car. He said no, and said he needed to call his lawyer, and locked all the car doors while he made the call.

The lawyer's phone was turned off, and when he emerged from the car he was arrested for speeding and suspicion of driving under influence, had his car searched and they came up with a bunch of drugs. The clincher was that he got done for resisting arrest, too, because he didn't let them search his car and they claimed he had already been arrested when that took place.

Basically, it's way too easy for them to play with the timeline, so make sure you ask them "Am I under arrest at this point?" or even "Could you please inform me of what my rights and options are in this situation", especially if they look like they are going to go ahead and do something against your wishes. It may not do much good if they are hellbent on busting you, but it may at least make it harder to confuse the issue of what happened when.

--- G.
 
I've found that if a cop wants to search you he will.... they can make up any shit for "probable cause" and it will always hold up in court... most lawyers will tell you not to play the "unlawfull search" card...

I wasn't read my rights when I was busted in a pretty big sweep years back and I didn't even bother trying to use it as a defense...

Most cops will lie to get people convicted cause they truly believe what they are doing is right.
 
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