controlled drug use

[bomber]

I figured that there is a big gap in the whole fuction of facing drug problems. Observe it: There is much help for someone that tries to totally quit a drug,much help for harm reducion of drug using, but there is little to no help for someone who is trying to keep drug using under control. There are so many people who use-like-love a drug but don't want to get hooked by it. Those people don't seem to have any help in that direction. No advice-no drug control programs- nothing like that.
I think there would me much less total adicts-junkies- destroied of drugs people if there was more help in that direction. Any thoughts?

 

[Felonious Monk]

It's because drug use isn't an accepted form of expression by our culture (I'm assuming American but it really applies almost anywhere). There's not even really great programs for drinking in moderation--you're just expected to do it.

In this situation you're either using illegal drugs (heroin, cocaine, meth) or you're using a prescription medicine not as prescribed (also illegal). Makes it a difficult situation...

Some therapists would talk it out with you. That's also what Bluelight is for.

 

[Cosmic Trigger]

I figured that there is a big gap in the whole fuction of facing drug problems. Observe it: There is much help for someone that tries to totally quit a drug,much help for harm reducion of drug using, but there is little to no help for someone who is trying to keep drug using under control. There are so many people who use-like-love a drug but don't want to get hooked by it. Those people don't seem to have any help in that direction. No advice-no drug control programs- nothing like that.
I think there would me much less total adicts-junkies- destroyed of drugs people if there was more help in that direction. Any thoughts?

I think you have a great idea but you can't hold your breath that long.

 

[Moreaux]

Felonious Monk raises some very valid points. I have seen a few programs that are centered around controlled drug use and using responsibly, but I think the biggest reason why they're not more popular is that people build tolerances to drugs so they need higher doses, and also most people use drugs as a coping mechanism for life so only using once in a while isn't realistic for them. As somebody in recovery I couldn't learn to use responsibility, it's either all or nothing with me.

Its an interesting topic.

 

[bomber]

^That's where such a fuction would be helpfull. If they expained you how to keep your tollerance low, with the right spacing and helped you find ways to deal with your carvings would help avoid addiction. I don't say it would work for everyone, since u use drugs the possibilities are against you. But yeah I do think there would be some part of the drug using population that would avoid getting hooked with some help.

 

[Moreaux]

^That's where such a fuction would be helpfull. If they expained you how to keep your tollerance low, with the right spacing and helped you find ways to deal with your carvings would help avoid addiction. I don't say it would work for everyone, since u use drugs the possibilities are against you. But yeah I do think there would be some part of the drug using population that would avoid getting hooked with some help.

I think for this to work they would have to teach valid and productive stress coping mechanisms. Addicts who would try this approach would also have to get their mental illnesses under control and stable, otherwise it would still fail.

 

[bomber]

Damn right.

 

[Muzda Jonxx]

Which drugs are you talking about here? I can control my alcohol use, I can control my hallucinogen use. But opiates and benzos? No hope for me ever controlling them unfortunately.

Subutex / methadone therapy sounds like a fairly close fit to what you're talking about, and they did come close to working for me. Although I still took pods on top of my subutex, and they still got me high, even though that's supposed to be impossible with bupe. The trouble is that with the really addictive substances, the drug controls you rather than you controlling it. I've tried giving my pods to someone else to try and ration them, but I'd just end up buying more secret pods eventually. The fact I wanted to control the addiction was irrelevant.

The only option for me is complete abstinence.

 

[Moreaux]

Which drugs are you talking about here? I can control my alcohol use, I can control my hallucinogen use. But opiates and benzos? No hope for me ever controlling them unfortunately.

Subutex / methadone therapy sounds like a fairly close fit to what you're talking about, and they did come close to working for me. Although I still took pods on top of my subutex, and they still got me high, even though that's supposed to be impossible with bupe. The trouble is that with the really addictive substances, the drug controls you rather than you controlling it. I've tried giving my pods to someone else to try and ration them, but I'd just end up buying more secret pods eventually. The fact I wanted to control the addiction was irrelevant.

The only option for me is complete abstinence.

I'm guessing DOC, so it would vary by the individual. For you opiates and benzos, me would be benzos, booze, and opiates, etc. I know personally there is no way for me to ooderste alcohol - quite literally unable to stop on my own. I had one slip after getting sober and went on a two year bender that ended in rehab. I include opiates in my list because they compel me to drink, as do benzos. I deteriorate quick after that first drink and end up back in the original position within a few weeks. Even if they had a semi-successful program that taught people how to moderate their use I would t risk it.

I know one time I was trying to get sober on my own and gave my car keys, billfold, etc to my parents so I had no money or means to drive. I found a pizza restaurant that delivered pizza and beer, and regardless of how horrible my memory is I still remembered the 16 digit number on my debit card, the expiration date, and the 3 digit cvc on the back. Seriously couldn't have told you what day it was but I remembered that. I ended up going to rehab as I felt there were larger issues in play. I know I could have cancelled the card and tried but I'm sure I would have found other ways if I was desperate as the stores were a few miles from my house - no biggie to walk.

 

[Muzda Jonxx]

It's amazing the lengths these chemicals will make us stretch to in order to obtain them. Unfortunately, the logical part of my brain would often tell me that I was not going to buy the opiates in my basket at the exact same time I was paying for them at the till. It's only when the poison is out of me that logic once again has a say in what I actually do.

Subutex did come close to what op is talking about, with willpower. But aside from 'treating' myself to pods whilst on it, even worse was that after I stopped taking the controlled bupe I'd invariably fall off the wagon again within days. Really, when I'm on those things I become a poppy robot.

 

[bomber]

Which drugs are you talking about here? I can control my alcohol use, I can control my hallucinogen use. But opiates and benzos? No hope for me ever controlling them unfortunately.

Subutex / methadone therapy sounds like a fairly close fit to what you're talking about, and they did come close to working for me. Although I still took pods on top of my subutex, and they still got me high, even though that's supposed to be impossible with bupe. The trouble is that with the really addictive substances, the drug controls you rather than you controlling it. I've tried giving my pods to someone else to try and ration them, but I'd just end up buying more secret pods eventually. The fact I wanted to control the addiction was irrelevant.
The only option for me is complete abstinence.

Im talking about all drugs. There are people who try to control weed, meth, drinking... Personally I would love to have some help in my heroin using, which is a lovely drug for me but I don't want to get hooked
and I read so much about how easily it get's you addicted before you know it.
I don't think subs are control drug using. It's just some help the state offers you to deal with opiate w.d.

 

[RedLeader]

I have seen a couple rehabs out there that are designed around the idea of converting full-blown addiction to responsible use. But your idea, that is the idea of taking controlled use and simply extending it indefinitely, is not something I have seen.

What I find interesting is the concept that alcohol, which is an incredibly addictive drug, is actually used responsibly by the majority of its users. The first question that comes up is along the lines of if alcohol were freshly discovered and being sold on streetcorners or the darknet, would the rates of addiction be higher? Would it be that much harder to not get addicted to it if society treated it just like any other drug? On the flipside, if opium dens existed in cities, could people go to them on the weekends just like they do the bars? I'm trying to get at something like an intrinsic addiction rate for different drugs that exists beyond all of the varying social in/acceptances and such. While it is easy enough to say "controlled opiate use...ha," I do think that some people could pull it off within a very different culture.

In this culture, though, I think there will be legal reasons why no treatment facility or outpatient program would want to go this route. And then I think a lot of people would be hesitant to support this, as it could lead people into addiction by a few successful examples being spotlighted and giving false hope.

I do think that there are very real addictions out there that are forced to take this approach to try and help people, though. Eating disorders - you still have to eat. Shopping disorders - you still have to buy stuff. So maybe a good starting point is to look at how people in these types of addictions are shown structure, rules and discipline for moving forward more sensibly.

I quit hard opiates but now use kratom in a controlled way, so I can relate. One beer and it would all be over. One line and it would all be over. But I can do kratom once a week, some weed twice a week. Some people know that they are in the all-or-nothing crowd, but it's wrong to assume that all people belong to the all-or-nothing crowd. Trial-and-error is really the only way to find out what you can or cannot handle.

 

[nuttynutskin]

Good thread... I think there should be more in the name of HR for alcoholics. It seems like there's a lot more HR related stuff for other drugs but not alcohol, and pretty much all of the programs out there just teach total abstinence. Maybe some people can't control it but the same could easily be said for other drugs like opiates.

What I find interesting is the concept that alcohol, which is an incredibly addictive drug, is actually used responsibly by the majority of its users. The first question that comes up is along the lines of if alcohol were freshly discovered and being sold on streetcorners or the darknet, would the rates of addiction be higher? Would it be that much harder to not get addicted to it if society treated it just like any other drug?

I think it'd be a lot like Prohibition albeit in the modern age. And everyone knows how well prohibition worked.